700 billion Bail out

[MasterPo]

Because it does not get injected down to the Actual mortage Holder, or citizen, The trickle down effect is what got us here to begoin with , Those who gambled and won did not share , Or trickle, and those who played and lost ,<SNIP>

This is a key problem with people who don't understand that wealth flows downward, never upward.

People who do well still have to eat, wear clothes, live someplace, buy medicine, watch TV etc etc. They aren't doing all these things in a vaccum. So they have to buy it from someone who makes his/her living off supplying this things to "the rich". That is how wealth is "shared". Maybe not "shared" the way you'd like it to be but unless you plan on robbing people that's a freedom. To spend your money as you wish.

[MasterPo]

Say, I am busting the guts, trying to keep up with the repayments and bills... My neighbour likes to have beer and to go to Egypt for holidays, this overspending leaves him with mortgage problem.. Then the government comes out of the woods and buys his debt off. What would I think about this and what would I do? I would stop paying my bills first thing. I also want to have beer and to go to Egypt, stuff the bank!

That's kind of an extreme example but I agree. But that's what many in mortgage debt have done (albeit not with trips to Egypt).

They work at Wendy's, make $12/hr and somehow thought they could buy a $200,000 house with no down payment, borrow the full amount plus closing costs, and then furnish the place (gotta have that 60" plasma theater TV!), etc.

[SoCrazes]

This is a key problem with people who don't understand that wealth flows downward, never upward.

So untrue, this is the economics the wealthy try to spoon feed you. Wealth comes from resources and labor is a resource. If you don't treat your resources properly, you will lose the wealth you percieve you have.

[Lt_Ripley]

As much as I hate to admit, like it or not, looks we're gonna have to bail'em out.

too true. I think alot of people just don't get it at this point. well they will when this credit crunch means pay rolls can't be met or material for business can't be bought to keep jobs going. forget the little credit card in your pocket. What hurts Wall Street will hurt Main Street - slowly. We think we are far removed and why should we care if houses are foreclosing ? We pay for it like it or not in one way or another.

I think the government ought to buy up those houses that are foreclosed for pennies on the dollar and resell them . Caps for Wall Street. Upping the FDIC is a good idea from Obama.

sadly the problem that got us here in the first place is solely lack of regulation and the fight against it.

On 11/19/93, McCain took to the Senate floor to support an early financial deregulation bill and decry what he called "the tremendous regulatory burden imposed on financial institutions." The guy who now claims to be the trustbusting Teddy Roosevelt back then lamented "the rapidly increasing regulatory burden imposed on banks is to cause them to devote substantial time, energy and money to compliance rather than meeting the credit needs of the community."

Ten years later, McCain was bragging to the Associated Press that "I have a long voting record in support of deregulation," and to CNN that "I am a deregulator. I believe in deregulation."

And, during this year's presidential campaign taking place in the shadow of financial meltdown, McCain was only months ago insisting on PBS that "we need less government [and] less regulation" and that "I'm always for less regulation."

Apparently the GOP and John McCain tried to regualate Fannie Maie and Freddie Mac back in 2005, McCains 2005 effort never got out of committee... a REPUBLICAN Committee!

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s109-190

Here's another FACT: When the bill came up again in 2007, McCain wasn't even a sponsor!

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-1100

Last FACT: Both bills included these deregulatory gems that probably would have crashed the whole system had either been passed:

Excludes the Federal Home Loan Banks from certain securities reporting requirements.

Abolishes the Federal Housing Finance Board.

[MasterPo]

So untrue, this is the economics the wealthy try to spoon feed you. Wealth comes from resources and labor is a resource. If you don't treat your resources properly, you will lose the wealth you percieve you have.

If you mean resources and labor have a value, I agree. But you can't buy groceries with 8 hours of labor. Nor can the guy who works in the factory take to his bank the goods produced in that factory.

As I've always said: When you're out of work do you ask for a job from the guy selling newspapers on the corner? Or the guy who owns the office building on the corner?

[MARAB0D]

That's kind of an extreme example but I agree. But that's what many in mortgage debt have done (albeit not with trips to Egypt).

They work at Wendy's, make $12/hr and somehow thought they could buy a $200,000 house with no down payment, borrow the full amount plus closing costs, and then furnish the place (gotta have that 60" plasma theater TV!), etc.

The Math of it... Say, 30 million people each shaft the bank on $200,000... This makes the black hole of $6,000,000,000,000 - which is $6 trillions, not some $700 billions... what does it mean - is it only a beginning? Maybe I am not understanding the dynamics of course...

[Omnaka]

This is a key problem with people who don't understand that wealth flows downward, never upward.

People who do well still have to eat, wear clothes, live someplace, buy medicine, watch TV etc etc. They aren't doing all these things in a vaccum. So they have to buy it from someone who makes his/her living off supplying this things to "the rich". That is how wealth is "shared". Maybe not "shared" the way you'd like it to be but unless you plan on robbing people that's a freedom. To spend your money as you wish.

THats where you are wrong , I dont need wealth to produce a product or Depend On some one who knows how to make Money off my hard work, Quite the oposite, Those with no skills will Go hungry because those douing the work will be feeding them selves not the wealthy, making the poor the wealthy, unless we are in sherwood Forest Killing The king's deer, Life Is For LOve, not Ripping Of and getting over at your brothers expence. IS IT? Enlighten me as to why I would even want to live in a world where I live to work instaed of work to live?

.

This rich eat poor atitude needs an adjustment Of the Highest KIne, Cutt the coruption off at the head, That means this administration which starts wars at the expense Of Families lives, Then Makes a profit off The Blood.

You wished It trickeled down, but because it does not You will se a falier Of biblical proportions as you Pay the junkie For shooting smack, The economy will tank no matter if this bvill p[asses or not , and you will be paying some millionaire to leave his position Of ripping Off america, with hopes that his prodje did not learn too much from the one before.

Slice it how you want , Gambeling Is Bad.

Doing it with My money is worse!

Love Omnaka

[MasterPo]

THats where you are wrong , I dont need wealth to produce a product or Depend On some one who knows how to make Money off my hard work,

Really?!?!

Tell me then: Who do you think owns the companies that produce:

the food you eat

the medicine you take

the materials that were used to build your home

made your car

made the road you drive on

made your clothes

made your washing machine

made the very computer you're using now to read and respond to this

etc

etc

etc

This isn't Little House On The Prarie! You can't live off the land.

[SoCrazes]

That's kind of an extreme example but I agree. But that's what many in mortgage debt have done (albeit not with trips to Egypt).

They work at Wendy's, make $12/hr and somehow thought they could buy a $200,000 house with no down payment, borrow the full amount plus closing costs, and then furnish the place (gotta have that 60" plasma theater TV!), etc.

Sorry poo, banks that make loans are, or should be, experts in making loans. Do not try to put all the blame on the commoners. The banks told them they could afford that house. Why wouldn't a commoner accept a financial "expert's" opinion?

I bought a house five years ago. My wife are very diligent with our finances and we knew exactly how much of house we could buy and budget constraints. When getting pre-approval, the loan officer's figure was $150,000 higher than what we thought our highest limit should be.

Hmmm, do you think the banks were taking on too much risk for the reward sought. BTW, the banks were "coercied" into making these loans by our illustrious government figures. Now these same government figures want a down payment of $2,300 per man, woman, and child to start correcting the mistakes. More "rescue" requests are coming. These rubs thought they'd get past the election without the evidence surfacing. Paulson has been oiling things for awhile trying to get the economy through Nov. 4.

The sooner we pay for this incompetence the less expensive it will be for us. Call your rep and senator and tell them no to the bailout/rescue plan.

[MasterPo]

The Math of it... Say, 30 million people each shaft the bank on $200,000... This makes the black hole of $6,000,000,000,000 - which is $6 trillions, not some $700 billions... what does it mean - is it only a beginning? Maybe I am not understanding the dynamics of course...

I don't argue the numbers.

But you missed my point:

If 30 million people (as in your example) are shafting banks, what makes you (not you personally) think they won't just as simply shaft the Fed when the gov takes over the mortgage?! IOW, why will Federalizing the mortgage make people more able to pay it off if they can't pay now?

[SoCrazes]

Really?!?!

Tell me then: Who do you think owns the companies that produce:

the food you eat

the medicine you take

the materials that were used to build your home

made your car

made the road you drive on

made your clothes

made your washing machine

made the very computer you're using now to read and respond to this

etc

etc

etc

This isn't Little House On The Prarie! You can't live off the land.

You truly disappoint me in that you apparently don't know what made this country great.

[MasterPo]

Sorry poo, banks that make loans are, or should be, experts in making loans. Do not try to put all the blame on the commoners. The banks told them they could afford that house. Why wouldn't a commoner accept a financial "expert's" opinion?

Sorry my lawyer friend, you forget a little thing called "community banking" and "community reinvestment act".

Banks were required by law to make risky loans to low income people, least they be sued or fined by the gov (and labeled as racist since many of those people were inner city minorities).

No one was crying in the 80's and 90's when first time home ownership was skyrocketing. Where was your righteous indignation then?

[Omnaka]

If you mean resources and labor have a value, I agree. But you can't buy groceries with 8 hours of labor. Nor can the guy who works in the factory take to his bank the goods produced in that factory.

As I've always said: When you're out of work do you ask for a job from the guy selling newspapers on the corner? Or the guy who owns the office building on the corner?

I beg to differ, I have lived in comunities where we Feed Our selves, with Eight ours Of Love spent tilling and Hunting.

This is the price Of Being a human, Not slaving for the man.

What does it benifit a man to Gain the world but loose his soul?

I find work and need where ever I go, I can and do fill that need, It is a trade , Not a get over.

As So crazes sait It is only their perception that they are Rich, Poor dark Bas tards.

Love Omnaka

[SoCrazes]

If we permit these jerks to scare us into supporting a bailout plan, they will be back for more. Time to pay the piper is now.

[MasterPo]

You truly disappoint me in that you apparently don't know what made this country great.

People tell me you don't have a degree in American History, because if you do you should send it back.

People work hard to start an enterprise, work hard to grow it, expand it, sell more products and services and - gasp! - make more money for themselves so they can live better.

So please tell me Mr. Buffet Jr., how does one become a successful enterprise owner without also becoming rich in the processes? And while you're at it, explain to me why someone would work their tail off to become a successful enterprise owner without the hope of growing their income and worth?

[SoCrazes]

If you mean resources and labor have a value, I agree. But you can't buy groceries with 8 hours of labor. Nor can the guy who works in the factory take to his bank the goods produced in that factory.

You don't know your history my friend. If this currency collapses, you better break out some history books.

As I've always said: When you're out of work do you ask for a job from the guy selling newspapers on the corner? Or the guy who owns the office building on the corner?

Neither, I do what my great-grandfather did.

[MasterPo]

I beg to differ, I have lived in comunities where we Feed Our selves, with Eight ours Of Love spent tilling and Hunting.

If that is so, well sir I submit you are far in away a tiny minority of how the rest of the country (and the western modern world) lives.

And even so, NTL you do eventually have to buy items from the outside world (ex: I doubt you mine metal and forge your own shovels and axes). Even if only occationally. So you still need to produce something for currency or at least barter. And the places you obtain the items from are owned by someone who probably has a lot more wealth than you.

[MasterPo]

You don't know your history my friend. If this currency collapses, you better break out some history books.

If the United States has a true currency collapse there will be much more to concern yourself than looking at the want ads.

Neither, I do what my great-grandfather did.

Fine. You work for yourself. So unless your great-grandfather was a mountain man high in the Rockies you're going to have to sell your products/services to someone. And that someone needs to have the money to buy it from you. Hence, they need to have some level of wealth greater than your own to be able to engage in a successful business transaction with you.

And if you do plan to move to the Rockies and live off the land, bring an extra pair of boots.

[SoCrazes]

Sorry my lawyer friend, you forget a little thing called "community banking" and "community reinvestment act".

Banks were required by law to make risky loans to low income people, least they be sued or fined by the gov (and labeled as racist since many of those people were inner city minorities).

No one was crying in the 80's and 90's when first time home ownership was skyrocketing. Where was your righteous indignation then?

PooMaster, this is the full post you were responsding to, I did address the CRA in the post you supposedly responded to. It is as follows:

Sorry poo, banks that make loans are, or should be, experts in making loans. Do not try to put all the blame on the commoners. The banks told them they could afford that house. Why wouldn't a commoner accept a financial "expert's" opinion?

I bought a house five years ago. My wife are very diligent with our finances and we knew exactly how much of house we could buy and budget constraints. When getting pre-approval, the loan officer's figure was $150,000 higher than what we thought our highest limit should be.

Hmmm, do you think the banks were taking on too much risk for the reward sought. BTW, the banks were "coercied" into making these loans by our illustrious government figures. Now these same government figures want a down payment of $2,300 per man, woman, and child to start correcting the mistakes. More "rescue" requests are coming. These rubs thought they'd get past the election without the evidence surfacing. Paulson has been oiling things for awhile trying to get the economy through Nov. 4.

The sooner we pay for this incompetence the less expensive it will be for us. Call your rep and senator and tell them no to the bailout/rescue plan.

Poo, if you have to take people out of context to feel superior, then you won't be able to successfully do it here.

[Omnaka]

Really?!?!

Tell me then: Who do you think owns the companies that produce:

the food you eat

the medicine you take

the materials that were used to build your home

made your car

made the road you drive on

made your clothes

made your washing machine

made the very computer you're using now to read and respond to this

etc

etc

etc

This isn't Little House On The Prarie! You can't live off the land.

This is where You are wrong again, Till 4 years ago I lived On the side Of a volcano Off the grid with satelite and Just how I told you, I worked in the comunity and we all did Fine, the things which we nweeded we went Out of tghe comunity for and , Main thing we did not impose a tax on each other , For the love we Shared.

I came back to the Mainland to see How you were doing, and meet my wife.

If you think this is life and love Hurting each other for a buck You can have it, My Hale is still wher I left it, and you can keep on keepin on.

I can live on nothing , and wil,l if that's what it takes to be free, Of Tyranie. And you can stay in the box your Govment gives you to live in piled high like rats in a maze, i will think of you.

Love Omnaka

[SoCrazes]

If the United States has a true currency collapse there will be much more to concern yourself than looking at the want ads.

Fine. You work for yourself. So unless your great-grandfather was a mountain man high in the Rockies you're going to have to sell your products/services to someone. And that someone needs to have the money to buy it from you. Hence, they need to have some level of wealth greater than your own to be able to engage in a successful business transaction with you.

And if you do plan to move to the Rockies and live off the land, bring an extra pair of boots.

You know very little of history my friend.

[SoCrazes]

If that is so, well sir I submit you are far in away a tiny minority of how the rest of the country (and the western modern world) lives.

And even so, NTL you do eventually have to buy items from the outside world (ex: I doubt you mine metal and forge your own shovels and axes). Even if only occationally. So you still need to produce something for currency or at least barter. And the places you obtain the items from are owned by someone who probably has a lot more wealth than you.

I truly think Poo doesn't get out much.

[Omnaka]

If that is so, well sir I submit you are far in away a tiny minority of how the rest of the country (and the western modern world) lives.

And even so, NTL you do eventually have to buy items from the outside world (ex: I doubt you mine metal and forge your own shovels and axes). Even if only occationally. So you still need to produce something for currency or at least barter. And the places you obtain the items from are owned by someone who probably has a lot more wealth than you.

I doubt you mine metal and forge your own shovels and axes). Even if only occationally.

Other words

I guess you may get to see a revolution, Because I am not alone in my Quest for human dignity and God given rights.

Next you may even be forced to pick a side.

Choose well brother, You can't eat Money.

Love Omnaka

Edited October 1, 2008 by Omnaka

[SoCrazes]

If the United States has a true currency collapse there will be much more to concern yourself than looking at the want ads.

Fine. You work for yourself. So unless your great-grandfather was a mountain man high in the Rockies you're going to have to sell your products/services to someone. And that someone needs to have the money to buy it from you. Hence, they need to have some level of wealth greater than your own to be able to engage in a successful business transaction with you.

And if you do plan to move to the Rockies and live off the land, bring an extra pair of boots.

[Omnaka]

If the United States has a true currency collapse there will be much more to concern yourself than looking at the want ads.

Fine. You work for yourself. So unless your great-grandfather was a mountain man high in the Rockies you're going to have to sell your products/services to someone. And that someone needs to have the money to buy it from you. Hence, they need to have some level of wealth greater than your own to be able to engage in a successful business transaction with you.

And if you do plan to move to the Rockies and live off the land, bring an extra pair of boots.

I prefer The tropics and slippers My Bro.

My Father Is God, and I'm not really woried about My freedom, just the pain while here.

I can't stand Pain, and if I'm gonna get it anyway, might as well go down swinging, For what I believe in, not what someone tries to tell me is the way.

Love Omnaka