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Omnaka

700 billion Bail out

700 billion  

80 members have voted

  1. 1. Bail them out or not

    • Bail them out
      17
    • Do not bail them out
      60
    • Let those in power figure this out , cause they know what they are doing
      3
    • 0


364 posts in this topic

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MARAB0D

Nickoli, the banks seem to be not privately owned, they are rather a collective ownership example, almost socialist organizations with hundreds if not thousands shareholders. These shareholders appoint CEOs, who run the show, they do not act by themselves. Bailout money are not going to CEOs and not going to the shareholders; the funds, used for bailout, are fictitious, unsupported by anything but the reputation of US Treasury, and these funds are directed to support the banks themselves, not their owners. The major result of the bailout would be preserving the existing relationships within US financial sphere. If you allow the banks to be purchased, this would only worsen the "socialist" nature of the economy, as merging create larger monopolies. In this sense bailout is not far from application of the Anti-Monopoly law - government interference is better than creating larger size financial monsters, which would be even less flexible that those today. The banks coud help themselves by selling the mortgaged properties - but they do not have time and ability to enter real estate trading, so the government helps them. I think most of bailout funds would eventually return to the government as a result of selling those houses, it is just the government can afford to wait till this happens, but the banks can not.

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danielost
Well, after a second round. It passed. My my... :unsure:

No first round in the senate.

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nickoli
Nickoli, the banks seem to be not privately owned, they are rather a collective ownership example, almost socialist organizations with hundreds if not thousands shareholders. These shareholders appoint CEOs, who run the show, they do not act by themselves. Bailout money are not going to CEOs and not going to the shareholders; the funds, used for bailout, are fictitious, unsupported by anything but the reputation of US Treasury, and these funds are directed to support the banks themselves, not their owners. The major result of the bailout would be preserving the existing relationships within US financial sphere. If you allow the banks to be purchased, this would only worsen the "socialist" nature of the economy, as merging create larger monopolies. In this sense bailout is not far from application of the Anti-Monopoly law - government interference is better than creating larger size financial monsters, which would be even less flexible that those today. The banks coud help themselves by selling the mortgaged properties - but they do not have time and ability to enter real estate trading, so the government helps them. I think most of bailout funds would eventually return to the government as a result of selling those houses, it is just the government can afford to wait till this happens, but the banks can not.

That may be and probably is closer to the truth.Here is what I want out of my part of the bailout,whatever portion will be applied to me. I want it to be a loan, with the same interest rates and rules as apply to my now paid off Bank Of America (what an outright lie if there ever was one) credit card. A variable apr according to market trends and late one minute on one payment and immediately its 29% interest from there on out. Now if they'll agree to those terms I'll get behind it and support it. In short, its a loan or I'm not paying it, sure I'll pay taxes on my land and purchaces but I'll get out of income taxes,social security etc etc,there are several ways to do this which I of course wont discuss here and they'll all be perfectly legal. That'll be my recourse and also to vote against all who supported it and third party,this sounds just like a job for Naders Raiders. I'll also become very politically active starting right here and going up. Its time some decent hard working pull yourself up by your own bootstraps people took the politics back over, thats just what America needs and thats what we'll have if thats what the people desire, this is or will be a government for the people of the people by the people. You just sit back and watch what happens as a result of these last 40 years of crooked politics and shadowy behind the scenes spooks screw ups and attrocities, its an interesting time to be alive thats for sure.

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MasterPo
Do not bail them out. Let people learn a hard lesson!

Don't try to make friends with me. ;)

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MARAB0D
That may be and probably is closer to the truth.Here is what I want out of my part of the bailout,whatever portion will be applied to me. I want it to be a loan, with the same interest rates and rules as apply to my now paid off Bank Of America (what an outright lie if there ever was one) credit card. A variable apr according to market trends and late one minute on one payment and immediately its 29% interest from there on out. Now if they'll agree to those terms I'll get behind it and support it. In short, its a loan or I'm not paying it, sure I'll pay taxes on my land and purchaces but I'll get out of income taxes,social security etc etc,there are several ways to do this which I of course wont discuss here and they'll all be perfectly legal. That'll be my recourse and also to vote against all who supported it and third party,this sounds just like a job for Naders Raiders. I'll also become very politically active starting right here and going up. Its time some decent hard working pull yourself up by your own bootstraps people took the politics back over, thats just what America needs and thats what we'll have if thats what the people desire, this is or will be a government for the people of the people by the people. You just sit back and watch what happens as a result of these last 40 years of crooked politics and shadowy behind the scenes spooks screw ups and attrocities, its an interesting time to be alive thats for sure.

Nickoli, a private individual can not be treated on the same condition as the entire banking system. Banks are also taxpayers, do not forget about this; and yes, they gamble with the money which people entrust them - but if you allow the banking to collapse, all private individuals would next day find themselves simply hungry... well, I overstretched a bit, they would be hungry as soon as the shelves of the shops get empty, as without the banks the shops won't be able to refill them with new goodies. I am not saying about money losing value and industry shutting down.

I already explained that the money, given to the banks, are fictitious, they can not be used to buy ice-cream, it is virtual money. Government creates a hole in the budget by issuing more money, and then the hole is closed when the houses are sold out. Banks have little to do with this, after all they lended money to the poor and the poor shafted them, so the government does not give them a loan, it gives then insurance, established post-factum. So, your taxes are not spent to give them to the bankers, they are spent to buy out the debts, which not the banks made, but the poor made to the banks. One can only accuse the banks that they were lending too much money to unreliable borrowers - but they had no choice, otherwise people would've be living in the streets and Omnaka would have lost job years ago, not now. The banks lending policies were specified by the government, so the government takes responsibility - and who wants to have an irresponsible government?

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MasterPo
they gamble with the money which people entrust them

"Risk" and "gamble" are not the same!

Gambling involves pure chance. Each event is singular and independent of the one before and after.

"Risk" has manhy factors, some of which can be midigated. Prior experience can be a good guide for future events. And today's events do impact tomorrows events.

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MARAB0D
"Risk" and "gamble" are not the same!

Gambling involves pure chance. Each event is singular and independent of the one before and after.

"Risk" has manhy factors, some of which can be midigated. Prior experience can be a good guide for future events. And today's events do impact tomorrows events.

I agree. Gambling is the euphemism used by many to describe what the banks do, in my view they take calculated risk under government guidance - and got burnt, therefore the government must help them now. The bubble is not in the housing prices or in the banks, the bubble is the entire economy, based on high wages and low productivity, so that the major share of consumer goods have to be cheaply imported from the countries with slave labour. We have the same here, you are not alone in US. Internet trade made dollar easy-to-get, and this caused the salaries rise in other areas of society. Important industries are mostly the worst in pollution and professional risks, so they were removed overseas - and the economy started to die, but everyone was happy. It takes two to tango and it take two to borrow.

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Omnaka

Marabod, I apreciate you including me in your Post a while Back, I could not respond, Cause I was soo mad and I did not want you to think it was at you.

I don't want to work for the Man and have him lend me a house , This is not the independance I have worked for my whole life.

Here's a Movie, I just recieved in my Mail which represents myv I deals!00 %.

You have probably seen it, but worth the tim, it gets as modern as to This election at the end.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912

Love Omnaka

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Bizeebutt

now I see what you were talking about Omnaka... I was totally lost in the Zeitgeist thread... but I get it :)

on that note tho... I agree too. :)

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MARAB0D

Omnaka - during the Stone Age the independent man could sustain this independence by only having clothes, knife, bow and some elementary skills. This is not the case anymore, because the planet is densely populated, and one can not simply hunt or forage, living in the forest, or at least this lifestyle becomes harder and harder to carry.

Today the ability to make money is the same as the ability of a stone age man to bring meat home, and to make money we can only when we interact with the rest of society, and interact successfully, so we bring more meat home than the others do. You have to admit, that the bankers are better hunters than you are - and they also hunt larger animals and take greater risks, and they also produce some food leftovers, which can feed millions of those who can not hunt at all.

You have a Nietzschean dream to be a free lonely blond beast, thats good - but then you also need to learn how to withstand the blows and disasters, to be resilient enough to lose everything and start again from scratch. Read about Mr Honda, as he was such a beast. Peasant boy, came in 1920s to work in a city, started to repair the bicycles. In two years he was already making his own bicycles with the motors, and selling them from his shed. By mid-30s he was a tycoon already and all Japan was riding his motorbikes - but WW2 set him absolutely broke, so he could not buy food for himself. Nevertheless, in 1950s he again started to sell the bikes, by late-50s every third motorbike in the world had his name on it, and he started to open the factories in Europe, competing with BMW. And then he decided to make cars - and made one... That first model set his car business practically broke, as it was absolute crap. Then he made a huge effort and redesigned the entire concept - so now we have Honda car... Thats what a really independent man must be!

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Omnaka
Omnaka - during the Stone Age the independent man could sustain this independence by only having clothes, knife, bow and some elementary skills. This is not the case anymore, because the planet is densely populated, and one can not simply hunt or forage, living in the forest, or at least this lifestyle becomes harder and harder to carry.

Today the ability to make money is the same as the ability of a stone age man to bring meat home, and to make money we can only when we interact with the rest of society, and interact successfully, so we bring more meat home than the others do. You have to admit, that the bankers are better hunters than you are - and they also hunt larger animals and take greater risks, and they also produce some food leftovers, which can feed millions of those who can not hunt at all.

You have a Nietzschean dream to be a free lonely blond beast, thats good - but then you also need to learn how to withstand the blows and disasters, to be resilient enough to lose everything and start again from scratch. Read about Mr Honda, as he was such a beast. Peasant boy, came in 1920s to work in a city, started to repair the bicycles. In two years he was already making his own bicycles with the motors, and selling them from his shed. By mid-30s he was a tycoon already and all Japan was riding his motorbikes - but WW2 set him absolutely broke, so he could not buy food for himself. Nevertheless, in 1950s he again started to sell the bikes, by late-50s every third motorbike in the world had his name on it, and he started to open the factories in Europe, competing with BMW. And then he decided to make cars - and made one... That first model set his car business practically broke, as it was absolute crap. Then he made a huge effort and redesigned the entire concept - so now we have Honda car... Thats what a really independent man must be!

Hey Marabod,

I think there can be a happy medium, with out slaving For the man, Or Other human who does not feel the need tp work, Or the one who feels entitlted to Only work at making Money off My work.

If he wants to eat he will have to do more than crunch numbers, Raise debt and Inflate Prices.

Love Omnaka

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MARAB0D
Hey Marabod,

I think there can be a happy medium, with out slaving For the man, Or Other human who does not feel the need tp work, Or the one who feels entitlted to Only work at making Money off My work.

If he wants to eat he will have to do more than crunch numbers, Raise debt and Inflate Prices.

Love Omnaka

Human is a social animal, so Honda was operating within the society and contributing to it.- but the same time he was self-contained. Self-made man... Another example is Bill Gates, despite he had a better starting point than Honda. Also a blond beast. Isolating yourself from society is a failure, but certainly one does not need to be a billionaire to be happy and free, that is for sure.

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corporatepunishment
i voted No, because you (Americans) deserve better, This credit crisis will affect your lives for years to come and the people who caused this problem are getting away scot free, they should be jailed, a small minority of rich bankers/company directors who let greed get the better of them have affected the lives of millions and then the greedy ba$tards want the American public to bail them out,.........so they can keep getting richer.

we need a new system,

The venus project. zeitgeist 2 the movie.

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MasterPo

This is also another prime example of how those who just life care-free and not think of the future get saved by Big Brother while those who do the right thing get the shaft!

I heard Donald Trump on the radio this afternoon. I usually don't like his politics. But in this he made a good point: If you aren't paying your mortgage perhaps even have a foreclosure notice from the bank you can go in and easily negotiate a better rate, better term, even a grace period. But if you're struggling to make your payments on schedule and aren't in default then you're stuck! They (the banks) won't do anything for you.

The Don is right. :yes:

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