John McCain 'undermining' bail-out

[questionmark]

John McCain 'undermining' bail-out to lift campaign

• Bipartisan talks at White House unable to seal deal

• Democrats say Republican ploy damages consensus

* Suzanne Goldenberg in Washington

* The Guardian,

* Friday September 26 2008

John McCain was accused last night of sabotaging the Wall Street bail-out with theatrics that reduced America's credit crisis to a showcase for his presidential leadership capabilities.

The furious words for the Republican candidate came after a contentious meeting at the White House between George Bush and congressional leaders scuppered an early deal on a $700bn rescue package. Both McCain and Barack Obama attended the meeting.

The extraordinary session had been called after McCain's stunning announcement on Wednesday that he would suspend his campaign and would seek a delay in tonight's presidential debate to try to personally help steer through a deal on the bail-out. By midday yesterday, congressional leaders said they had reached the outlines of a deal.

But that optimism appeared to have dissipated after the White House meeting.

Democrats and Republicans said that prospects for a deal vanished after McCain had tried to prod his fellow Republicans in another direction. The breakdown cast new uncertainty over Friday night's presidential debate in Mississippi, as well as the future of the bail-out itself.

McCain told ABC television last night that members of Congress still had legitimate concerns about the bill. But he added that he remained "hopeful" of a deal that would allow him to go ahead as planned with the debate.

Obama had said earlier he would attend the debate, and the University of Mississippi, which is hosting the event, said it intended to go ahead.

But both candidates planned to spend the night in Washington, where the last-minute uncertainty about the bail-out saw Democrats erupting in fury at McCain. Democratic leaders accused the Republican of engineering the drama to distract from his recent dip in the polls.

"What this looked like to me was a rescue plan for John McCain," Christopher Dodd, who heads the Senate's banking committee, told CNN.

Obama also chided McCain. "When you start injecting presidential politics into delicate negotiations you actually start creating more problems," he said.

The attacks appeared to be a strategy to block McCain's efforts to cast himself as above the political fray when it came to America's credit crisis. McCain has depicted the bail-out negotiations as a crisis requiring his personal attention.

"I'm an old navy pilot, and I know when a crisis calls for all hands on deck," he said in a speech to the Clinton Global Initiative in New York, before travelling to Washington. "As of this morning, I suspended my campaign. With so much on the line, for America and the world, the debate that matters most right now is taking place in the United States Capitol - and I intend to join it."

Obama continued to reject McCain's argument that the gravity of America's financial crisis should put the campaign on hold. "Our election is in 40 days," he said in his speech to the Clinton initiative, delivered from Florida where he was preparing for the debate. "The American people deserve to hear directly from myself and Senator McCain about how we intend to lead our country. The times are too serious to put our campaign on hold, or to ignore the full range of issues that the next president will face."

Full story, source: The Guardian

[Aztec Warrior]

Where exactly would all this bail-out money go? I don't believe fiscal mismanagement should be rewarded. If a bank goes bellyup, why give them more money to lose? Why should these fat executives keep their jobs and continue to be paid millions?

A bail-out/loan in some form may be needed, but not the one proposed by the Democrats. That's why the House Republicans, who were never consultated, balked at the proposal. They killed it, not McCain.

[questionmark]

Where exactly would all this bail-out money go? I don't believe fiscal mismanagement should be rewarded. If a bank goes bellyup, why give them more money to lose? Why should these fat executives keep their jobs and continue to be paid millions?

A bail-out/loan in some form may be needed, but not the one proposed by the Democrats. That's why the House Republicans, who were never consultated, balked at the proposal. They killed it, not McCain.

I agree completely that this bail out should not happen, there is enough to shoulder for future generations, not to mention what it would do for the dollar and the US government credit rating, but then you say it straight out and don't weasel from the back door.

[Leonardo]

Where exactly would all this bail-out money go? I don't believe fiscal mismanagement should be rewarded. If a bank goes bellyup, why give them more money to lose? Why should these fat executives keep their jobs and continue to be paid millions?

A bail-out/loan in some form may be needed, but not the one proposed by the Democrats. That's why the House Republicans, who were never consultated, balked at the proposal. They killed it, not McCain.

Nice misdirection. As well as some outright lies.

The bailout plan was primarily Henry Paulson's (an ex-Wall Street executive, quelle surprise) idea, and was initially rejected by both Republicans and Democrats in Congress. If you don't know this Henry Paulson fellow, he is the Secretary of the US Treasury and a Republican. So much for it being a 'Democrat proposal'.

As for the actual topic of discussion (McCain allegedly using the economic crisis to grandstand his 'leadership' credentials), would you like to comment?

Edited September 26, 2008 by Leonardo

[EmpressStarXVII]

Democrats and Republicans said that prospects for a deal vanished after McCain had tried to prod his fellow Republicans in another direction. The breakdown cast new uncertainty over Friday night's presidential debate in Mississippi, as well as the future of the bail-out itself.

What a Maverick! Now that is how you shake things up. Yeah...that's the ticket.

I agree completely that this bail out should not happen, there is enough to shoulder for future generations, not to mention what it would do for the dollar and the US government credit rating, but then you say it straight out and don't weasel from the back door.

It shouldn't happen, but it's going to. Something's going to. Either way, I wouldn't put too much confidence in an alternative either. Poor circular logic that will never be paid off. I'm just eager for it to be over with.

[MasterPo]

I sooo hoped someone here would bring this topic up!

Where are Obama's [super-human] leadership and organization skills throughout this crisis??

I thought Obama was a born leader?

I thought he was someone who could unite people?

I thought he was a healer and a great communicator?

I thought he was an experienced and successful community organizer?

Here was his moment to shine for the nationa and the world to see and marvel!!

But instead he stayed away until he was called. And even then he flopped the opportunity.

This is a lesson. If he can't deliver on all the claims of his people skills now how in Heaven's name is he going to deal with Congress and the Senate if he's President? How is he going to deal with unfriendly foreign leaders?!

[Fluffybunny]

So po, what specifically did mccain accomplish by going to Washington?

[InHuman]

You're right, the fact that he didn't use his ancient african spells to lift up the economy single handedly is PROOF he's not gonna get the job done.

[questionmark]

So po, what specifically did mccain accomplish by going to Washington?

You mean: besides having most of the press and late night shows really picking on him, right?

[Fluffybunny]

You mean: besides having most of the press and late night shows really picking on him, right?

Its the chance he took...he's the one that likes hail mary passes. This one got fumbled. Too erratic and it didnt make any sense...he earned every bit of the lashing he got...

[MasterPo]

Fluffy - It's called Leadership and doing your job.

What is Obama going to do in a crisis? Stay on vacation and dial in?!

As for his stance, he doesn't roll over and cave in and agree with the Democrat plan so naturally he's being obstructionist.

[Fluffybunny]

Fluffy - It's called Leadership and doing your job.

What is Obama going to do in a crisis? Stay on vacation and dial in?!

As for his stance, he doesn't roll over and cave in and agree with the Democrat plan so naturally he's being obstructionist.

I asked a serious question...what specifically did he do to help? "leadership" isnt an answer as too many people on the actual committee (that could really do something of substance)have already said that they simply needed to take several hours away from negotiations in order to deal with the mccain visit and photo op.

So I ask you again and would love for you to give a specific answer. What did mccain specifically do in Washington that helped the situation? No one seems to be able to give a specific answer, not even his own people...simply campaign bs answers that seem to go opposite of what the folks on the committee felt.

It seems specifics can never be nailed down with mccain or palin...only generalities...

So po, are you up to the task?

[MasterPo]

McCain is representing the best interests of his constiutants and, as a Presidential candidate, the best interests of the country but not bending over and taking whatever the Democrats offered.

If this was such an urgent thing to do now, why haven't the Dems passed it already? They are in the majority. Even if every single Republican voted against it they couldn't stop it. So why haven't the Dems passed this super great bailout bill themselves?

ps- Why is "compromise" always defined as a Republican/Conservative giving in to a Democrat/Libral?

pps- Why couldn't the great Obama, the great communicator and healer of our time, quell McCain's arguments (reports were BTW that McCain actually did not say much - look who has the power with just a few words!) and bring everyone together? Your hero couldn't do that. How telling.

[Fluffybunny]

You realize that mccain is not on the committee, nor is obama...they were not a part of the team that could make any changes to anything... the group that was negotiating the matter had been working on it and had to take a break to deal with them coming in to town...thats why you cant come up with anything specific that he did. He took a lot of photos. He tried to help his campaign.

In this matter he didnt have any power, it isnt as if his mere presence is going to somehow grease the wheels of the process, and in fact it appears the opposite happened.

btw, you are confused. obama isnt "my hero". good try though. I am not a democrat, and not a fan of obamas politics. I am even less a fan of mccains lies and politicals stunts. He at one point had integrity and honor, and I once was a supporter of his, but he has sold his soul to try and win, and the integrity he once had is long gone with his campaign managers. I do not like his lies and political grandstanding and thats why I speak out against it.

[SoCrazes]

Nice misdirection. As well as some outright lies.

The bailout plan was primarily Henry Paulson's (an ex-Wall Street executive, quelle surprise) idea, and was initially rejected by both Republicans and Democrats in Congress. If you don't know this Henry Paulson fellow, he is the Secretary of the US Treasury and a Republican. So much for it being a 'Democrat proposal'.

As for the actual topic of discussion (McCain allegedly using the economic crisis to grandstand his 'leadership' credentials), would you like to comment?

The way it was initially reported, it was Paulson's and the White House's plan. Both of which are pubs.

[SoCrazes]

You realize that mccain is not on the committee, nor is obama...they were not a part of the team that could make any changes to anything... the group that was negotiating the matter had been working on it and had to take a break to deal with them coming in to town...thats why you cant come up with anything specific that he did. He took a lot of photos. He tried to help his campaign.

In this matter he didnt have any power, it isnt as if his mere presence is going to somehow grease the wheels of the process, and in fact it appears the opposite happened.

btw, you are confused. obama isnt "my hero". good try though. I am not a democrat, and not a fan of obamas politics. I am even less a fan of mccains lies and politicals stunts. He at one point had integrity and honor, and I once was a supporter of his, but he has sold his soul to try and win, and the integrity he once had is long gone with his campaign managers. I do not like his lies and political grandstanding and thats why I speak out against it.

I don't trust any of these guys. Both are jockeying and posturing. I know it is part of the game, but I'm tired of the game.

[SoCrazes]

I sooo hoped someone here would bring this topic up!

Where are Obama's [super-human] leadership and organization skills throughout this crisis??

I thought Obama was a born leader?

I thought he was someone who could unite people?

I thought he was a healer and a great communicator?

I thought he was an experienced and successful community organizer?

Here was his moment to shine for the nationa and the world to see and marvel!!

But instead he stayed away until he was called. And even then he flopped the opportunity.

This is a lesson. If he can't deliver on all the claims of his people skills now how in Heaven's name is he going to deal with Congress and the Senate if he's President? How is he going to deal with unfriendly foreign leaders?!

Neither candidates came through. What is your point?

[MasterPo]

Neither candidates came through. What is your point?

But Obama was supposed to!

All through the primaries and campaign until now we had been told by Obama and his supports just how great he is as a communicator, how great he is at bringing people together, finding common ground, getting people to work together, organizing people, smoothing feathers and making swords into plow sheers.

This is the man, so we are told, who will:

Stop Iran's nuclear program by sitting down with Ak-whatever

The man who will stop North Korea's nuke program the same way

The man who will restore America's reputation in the world by working with our allies on common causes

The man who will heal the wounds of racism and bring all people together

This was Obama's golden opportunity to prove his powers to the nation and the world!

And he blew it spectacularly.

[SoCrazes]

But Obama was supposed to!

All through the primaries and campaign until now we had been told by Obama and his supports just how great he is as a communicator, how great he is at bringing people together, finding common ground, getting people to work together, organizing people, smoothing feathers and making swords into plow sheers.

This is the man, so we are told, who will:

Stop Iran's nuclear program by sitting down with Ak-whatever

The man who will stop North Korea's nuke program the same way

The man who will restore America's reputation in the world by working with our allies on common causes

The man who will heal the wounds of racism and bring all people together

This was Obama's golden opportunity to prove his powers to the nation and the world!

And he blew it spectacularly.

It was McCain who suspended the campaign and this was McCain's "golden opportunity to prove his powers to the nation and the world!" As one asserted on an earlier post, neither candidate was in a position (on the right committee) to get things done.

[MasterPo]

It was McCain who suspended the campaign and this was McCain's "golden opportunity to prove his powers to the nation and the world!" As one asserted on an earlier post, neither candidate was in a position (on the right committee) to get things done.

If we use this as an analogy for world politics, since when is the American President ever on "the right committee" when it comes to world affairs?!

How many other-country ministries or councils does the American President sit on?

[Fluffybunny]

If we use this as an analogy for world politics, since when is the American President ever on "the right committee" when it comes to world affairs?!

How many other-country ministries or councils does the American President sit on?

There is a big difference between a senator and a president. "The buck stops here" really meant something once when it sat on the presidents desk. Not anymore, but it did once.

[MasterPo]

There is a big difference between a senator and a president. "The buck stops here" really meant something once when it sat on the presidents desk. Not anymore, but it did once.

Fluffster - You miss the whole point.

Obama was packaged and presented to the American people as the man a change, of consensus building, of communication across lines that divide, of making things happen.

It's rare that a leader will always be in the right place at the right time just as events unfold. A leader often has to inject themselves into the fray.

This was Obama's golden chance to do just that and prove he's more than just a teleprompter speech reader in a nice suit.

But he crashed and burned infront of the nation and world. He didn't even want to come to Washington! And now you're excusing him for not being on the right committee? I suppose if President Obama went to the U.N. to ask for something and they said "No!" that would be OK 'cause he really isn't on the UN councils.

[Omnaka]

I guess if all those who did not want this Bail to Happen revolted, then they would have to eat their mistake?

Love Omnaka

[Fluffybunny]

Fluffster - You miss the whole point.

Obama was packaged and presented to the American people as the man a change, of consensus building, of communication across lines that divide, of making things happen.

It's rare that a leader will always be in the right place at the right time just as events unfold. A leader often has to inject themselves into the fray.

This was Obama's golden chance to do just that and prove he's more than just a teleprompter speech reader in a nice suit.

But he crashed and burned infront of the nation and world. He didn't even want to come to Washington! And now you're excusing him for not being on the right committee? I suppose if President Obama went to the U.N. to ask for something and they said "No!" that would be OK 'cause he really isn't on the UN councils.

This is a dead horse that keeps getting beaten, but what is he supposed to do? Have you seen how the process actually works? I mean really looked at what is going on? With the banking committee? Do you understand how the guys in the committee are the only people that can have things changed? That having mccain there has no impact? That obama has no power to step into the banking committee meetings and change things?

It just seems that people have this assumption that simply by being there he was doing something, but no one can quantify that...no one can verify anything, but giving him full credit as being a leader. Really...how, why?

I mean really...I wont bring it up again, because I have proven my point as no one can verify that he has done anything other than a photo op and a campaign stop...all very calculcated. He did what he could to make obama look poor. As senators not on the committee, they can only vote when the final drafts come up...

I wish people would learn the difference between a campaign stunt and an actual attempt to do something helpful.

[questionmark]

Fluffy - It's called Leadership and doing your job.

What is Obama going to do in a crisis? Stay on vacation and dial in?!

As for his stance, he doesn't roll over and cave in and agree with the Democrat plan so naturally he's being obstructionist.

You mean that your definition of leadership is causing a traffic jam downtown DC and sitting at a table as dead baggage while not being capable of convincing your own party members to follow you?

Great definition!