Anybody watching the debate? Thoughts?

[InHuman]

Pah-kee-stun

Pack-eee-stan

[ninjadude]

Obama does not speak from experience, and McCain does.

Taxing couples that make $250,000 a year is not fair. thats the middle class in in many parts of California and New York

I would submit that much of that "experience" is not relevant and poorly remembered. The Soviet Union no longer exists yet Mc still seems to be fighting the cold war. He sees everything thru a military mindset. The Eisenhower story is wrong. Vietnam is not Iraq. Conditions in the miltary have changed markedly. Being a POW does not give you foreign policy experience.

I laugh at your middle class comment. The "UPPER" middle class is still below 250,000. Above 250,000 is the top 5 percent of incomes. There is no way no how that is "middle class". anyone who thinks that is deluded.

[SilverCougar]

Pah-kee-stun

Pack-eee-stan

GASP!

[Guardsman Bass]

Obama does not speak from experience, and McCain does. I don't vote for theories, even if I don't necessarily agree with McCain on everything. When obama did not know the answer he just agreed with McCain answer...

On one occasion, and that was the Russia argument. On virtually everything else he took a considerably different stand than John McCain.

Since Obama claims that John McCain is the next Bush, and since he agreed with John 8 times during the debate, does that make him another Bush too?

He used the "I agree with x, but " which is a fairly common rhetorical device - you start with something similar, then broaden the differences.

[InHuman]

GASP!

http://changinguppakistan.wordpress.com/20...ncing-pakistan/

[SilverCougar]

http://changinguppakistan.wordpress.com/20...ncing-pakistan/

Wait.. how many e's are in potato?

...oh gods why.. I just dated myself...

[Vampwitchenstein]

I'm not ignoring you, and apreciate your Comment, I was up too late last night and too tired to look for it.

Thanks.

I was refering to Mcain being Obamas Groomer not Obama's real father.

Love Omnaka

and yes It was a Joke , Kindof

My bad.

Carry on...

[Vampwitchenstein]

Did any one watch Bill maher with Ralf Nadar Last night?

Pretty funny, Nader had his Braclet on too.

Love Omnaka

What's Nader's for?

I have several.

2 for the Denver Broncos (yes, I know, they need it)

1 for Child Abuse Awareness

1 for the ASPCA

1 for Women's Heart Health (of which I have a personal investment...)

And;

1 for Support Strippers (it was from a Bachelor/Bachelorette party)

Anywho, I do know all and I do mean ALL night last night and most of today DID actually consist of analyzing McCain not looking at Obama. I even noticed watching the clips Obama a couple of times turned towards McCain and was leaning on his podium almost like he wanted to start waving at McCain like 'Hello! Look here! I'm over here! WTF are you looking at! Because it's not me! *wave* *wave*'

Whatever the reason, it came across as rude and snobby. I actually liked a couple of analysis' I heard that it could have even been intimidation, tee hee! But one of the smartest conclusions is that it could very well have been McCain was doing his best to control that ridiculous temper of his. He blinked & twitched & gnashed quite a bit more than usual I noticed.

Edit: grammar; technical stuff.

Edited September 28, 2008 by Blondigeist

[stevewinn]

i watched the debate and has an outsider looking in i have to say both of them seem hopeless. i cant believe how substandard they are. Am at a lose to how the hell these two got to be the presidential candidates for the USA. and i cant believe we have people on these forums bickering with one another over who's the best. they're both crap. i thought after Bush you Americans would have learnt your lesson. But seeing that either one of them HAS to be your next president i can safely say your in shiit street, cant you have a re vote or something?

You needed to vote in a statesman, someone who has experience someone who has a long and respected career, someone who knows their shiit about international affairs and domestic ones. but instead you give the world Mc'Cain and Obama. God bless America and on this occasion God help America.

[Splodgenessabounds]

i watched the debate and has an outsider looking in i have to say both of them seem hopeless. i cant believe how substandard they are. Am at a lose to how the hell these two got to be the presidential candidates for the USA. and i cant believe we have people on these forums bickering with one another over who's the best. they're both crap. i thought after Bush you Americans would have learnt your lesson. But seeing that either one of them HAS to be your next president i can safely say your in shiit street, cant you have a re vote or something?

You needed to vote in a statesman, someone who has experience someone who has a long and respected career, someone who knows their shiit about international affairs and domestic ones. but instead you give the world Mc'Cain and Obama. God bless America and on this occasion God help America.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Edited September 28, 2008 by Splodgenessabounds

[BlindMessiah]

i watched the debate and has an outsider looking in i have to say both of them seem hopeless. i cant believe how substandard they are. Am at a lose to how the hell these two got to be the presidential candidates for the USA. and i cant believe we have people on these forums bickering with one another over who's the best. they're both crap. i thought after Bush you Americans would have learnt your lesson. But seeing that either one of them HAS to be your next president i can safely say your in shiit street, cant you have a re vote or something?

You needed to vote in a statesman, someone who has experience someone who has a long and respected career, someone who knows their shiit about international affairs and domestic ones. but instead you give the world Mc'Cain and Obama. God bless America and on this occasion God help America.

Yep. We're going to elect one of these idiots and self-destruct. Then you guys are going to adopt Sharia Law and get run over and the whole world can go to hell. Yay humans.

[AztecInca]

Politics can be tiresome.

One sentence from my only post in a thread of 230-240 posts is a rant but the object of my post is not...

A blunt and unflattering opinion of Obama constitutes 'insults'?

The problem some here can have with strong but differing opinions is something to behold.

As if they are really not very strong believers in the free expression of ideas at all.

I am so far from being alone in my observations of the kind I noted, that if you still need 'evidence' to give 'substance' to what so many consider so self evident then I probably cannot help you, at least in that regard.

If you still cannot acknowledge such 'evidence' of elitist, pretentious condescension, whiny, bumbling, spineless immaturity and profoundly over inflated sense of importance... and entitlement so entirely out of proportion to the facts of record... with record being the operative word there... namely the stunning lack of any accomplishments worthy of qualifying one to so aspire...

...then there is probably not much sense in me trying to help you see it, because you probably just don't want to.

But have you heard nothing about the very size of this child's head? For starters?

Have you seen nothing of how steeped in naked radicalism and divisiveness and perpetual victimhood and running down America this crowd is?

Are ya bleedin deaf and blind as well laddie?

The denial and disconnect we are witnessing in this whole sad spectacle is incredible. As if some kind of cult to put it mildly.

I see a smirking sneer he cannot seem to wipe off his face because it is a reflection of what is deep within. Way deep within.

I hear contempt for our nation in more than just his unguarded 'clinging' moments.

I feel the weight of his own admission about always seeking out "radical" (America hating anties and troublemakers) in the full force of the very facts of his life and of those he involves himself with.

I smell his failed 60's leftist / marxist fantasies regarding the size and role of government, foreign relations, classism, racism and a compulsively proctologist's view of America...

I taste the bitterness that is the fruit of all the influences he and his kind have been stewing in through more than just the disturbing nature of his wife and mentors, his friends and associates and their vision of the world and the future, and I am calling them on it.

But you find this all so tiresome...

Libertyworld, you continue to insult and give Obama negative labels without any evidence to back up said statements. You call him spinless, whiny, elitist, pretentious and so forth, but fail to provide examples of this behaviour. Stating, "I see a smirking sneer he cannot seem to wipe off his face because it is a reflection of what is deep within" does not constitute evidence. It is an opinion. I am happy to accept negative statements if evidence is provided, but until those who behave such as this provide evidence, they cannot be taken seriously. I merely wish to facilitate a mature discussion, however the constant stream of insults, trolling and flame-baiting by supporters of both candidates has become embarassing and needs to end.

Personally I support more of Obama's policies and positions on issue's than McCain, however the difference isn`t great and had McCain picked someone other than Palin as his VP I would still be an undecided voter if I was an American. I am happy to see Obama, McCain, Biden and Palin being criticised when they deserve it but only then.

[acidhead]

...for the record.... McCain admits to not looking at Obama during the debate..

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idU...ndChannel=10112

McCain has been criticized as condescending toward Obama and for refusing to look at his Democratic opponent during the debate. McCain called the criticism "foolishness."

"I've been in many, many debates," he said. "And a lot of the times I don't look at my opponents because I'm focusing on the people and the American people that I'm talking to. That's what the debate's all about."

[Vampwitchenstein]

...for the record.... McCain admits to not looking at Obama during the debate..

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idU...ndChannel=10112

McCain has been criticized as condescending toward Obama and for refusing to look at his Democratic opponent during the debate. McCain called the criticism "foolishness."

"I've been in many, many debates," he said. "And a lot of the times I don't look at my opponents because I'm focusing on the people and the American people that I'm talking to. That's what the debate's all about."

Wonder who thought that excuse up for him.

Has anyone looked back thru any of his 'past debates'?

He still knew going in (and was reminded repeatedly) that the format of this debate was different yet he thinks himself too good to just show some flexibility and willingness to participate and not be seen as stand offish and rude (as he was). He should have refused the format before the debate took place with his 'I just don't look at anybody I'm debating' BS.

Actually, a debate is not just him 'addressing the American People' that would be a speech.

Edited September 28, 2008 by Blondigeist

[Omnaka]

I think if they actually had eye contact they would both be looking in to empty souls and get lost in each others Emptyness, and For us to see this on stage might ruin both their chanses Of taking advantage Of The american People.

Love Omnaka

[Whangarei]

...for the record.... McCain admits to not looking at Obama during the debate..

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idU...ndChannel=10112

McCain has been criticized as condescending toward Obama and for refusing to look at his Democratic opponent during the debate. McCain called the criticism "foolishness."

"I've been in many, many debates," he said. "And a lot of the times I don't look at my opponents because I'm focusing on the people and the American people that I'm talking to. That's what the debate's all about."

Wow so after getting lambasted for several pages it turns out that I was correct in my observation in spite of the "video evidence" and "photos" thanks for posting this. Nice to see he admits it. And I notice he makes no mention of not being physically able to do this. He's doing it deliberately. As I also said. I think for whatever reasons he did it, it blew up in his face. Made him look like a snob and a jerk to some.

[IrishAidan07]

Wonder who thought that excuse up for him.

I don't know how it is an excuse, considering he rarely looked at his Republican buds during the primary debates.

[libertyworld]

Wow so after getting lambasted for several pages it turns out that I was correct in my observation in spite of the "video evidence" and "photos" thanks for posting this. Nice to see he admits it. And I notice he makes no mention of not being physically able to do this. He's doing it deliberately. As I also said. I think for whatever reasons he did it, it blew up in his face. Made him look like a snob and a jerk to some.

Hopelessly fixated to an obsessive degree.

Revealing of an intellectual superficiality...

Ya gotta move on here.

There are real issues to focus on and between the two many see Obama as far more of a jerk and a snob, as demonstrated over time anyway.

Admitting he didn't look at him much does not make it proper debate etiquette.

You've done more lambasting here than any other poster to the topic.

Of course he's doing it deliberately.

It is proper debate etiquette, unless one wants to look like a dumb high school greenie and despite how many show such ignorance to the contrary.

Probably did it even more so because Leher was so wrong to press for it and even more so because there was a pretty good chance he was none too pleased with Obama for other reasons at the time and maybe Obama just didn't deserve much respect that night. Easy for me to imagine considering the issues of the day and Obama's role in them.

It may not happen all the time but yes, sometimes lots of people are just wrong about something.

If it made him look like a snob and a jerk to some then I guess that is what they wanted to see anyway, and maybe some tend to see themselves in everything.

The degree to which it has blown up in his face is the degree to which so many can't even acknowledge something as simple and basic as beginner level debate etiquette.

The important numbers don't even support the notion of anything blowing up in anyone's face anyway.

Essentially a draw or even a slight edge to McCain.

[IrishAidan07]

Revealing of an intellectual superficiality...

LMAO.

Edited September 29, 2008 by IrishLexie

[Whangarei]

Hopelessly fixated to an obsessive degree.

Revealing of an intellectual superficiality...

Ya gotta move on here.

There are real issues to focus on and between the two many see Obama as far more of a jerk and a snob, as demonstrated over time anyway.

Admitting he didn't look at him much does not make it proper debate etiquette.

You've done more lambasting here than any other poster to the topic.

Of course he's doing it deliberately.

It is proper debate etiquette, unless one wants to look like a dumb high school greenie and despite how many show such ignorance to the contrary.

Probably did it even more so because Leher was so wrong to press for it and even more so because there was a pretty good chance he was none too pleased with Obama for other reasons at the time and maybe Obama just didn't deserve much respect that night. Easy for me to imagine considering the issues of the day and Obama's role in them.

It may not happen all the time but yes, sometimes lots of people are just wrong about something.

If it made him look like a snob and a jerk to some then I guess that is what they wanted to see anyway, and maybe some tend to see themselves in everything.

The degree to which it has blown up in his face is the degree to which so many can't even acknowledge something as simple and basic as beginner level debate etiquette.

The important numbers don't even support the notion of anything blowing up in anyone's face anyway.

Essentially a draw or even a slight edge to McCain.

I'm not the one who obsessed about it. I made an observation that was true. It was the knee jerk defense team that couldn't take their precious McCain being thought of critically, no matter how small an issue, that raged on and on and offered up photographs, after photographs and excuse after excuse rather than admitting what was plainly obvious. I said what I saw, many others saw the same thing, the candidate admitted he did it. He admitted he did it because it became an issue. As I suggested it would. If that's too much for you to handle (the truth) then I suggest you ignore my posts. Its quite simple. Several others on here seem to have been interested in the debate and this issue. If you're not, whoopie do! LOL.

[libertyworld]

I'm not the one who obsessed about it. I made an observation that was true. It was the knee jerk defense team that couldn't take their precious McCain being thought of critically, no matter how small an issue, that raged on and on and offered up photographs, after photographs and excuse after excuse rather than admitting what was plainly obvious. I said what I saw, many others saw the same thing, the candidate admitted he did it. He admitted he did it because it became an issue. As I suggested it would. If that's too much for you to handle (the truth) then I suggest you ignore my posts. Its quite simple. Several others on here seem to have been interested in the debate and this issue. If you're not, whoopie do! LOL.

Yes, I think you pretty much obsessed in this case.

It is not even considered proper debate etiquette, something you have not addressed.

Why would McCain not want to admit following proper debate etiquette?

You act like he only admitted it after it became an issue as if he was trying to hide something.

There's nothing to admit or hide.

It is the proper way to debate, that's all, regardless of what Leher or anyone else wanted.

Too much for me to handle?

Hardly.

If I wasn't interested in this issue, I would not bother to weigh in on it. It's quite simple.

I've engaged with you for the same reason I engage with anyone else here,

and that's sure not because you think "the truth" is too much for me to handle.

Go on imagining me bothered though, if it makes you feel better.

Edited September 29, 2008 by libertyworld

[Whangarei]

Its always funny to me when people keep saying they don't care, but keep responding.

[InHuman]

Not gonna call anyone out but..

All this cynical "all politicans are liars" stuff does its job of hurting the democratic proccess. Say what you need to, but offer another solution.

[libertyworld]

Not gonna call anyone out but..

All this cynical "all politicans are liars" stuff does its job of hurting the democratic proccess. Say what you need to, but offer another solution.

Good post.

[Leonardo]

Yes, I think you pretty much obsessed in this case.

It is not even considered proper debate etiquette, something you have not addressed.

Why would McCain not want to admit following proper debate etiquette?

You act like he only admitted it after it became an issue as if he was trying to hide something.

There's nothing to admit or hide.

It is the proper way to debate, that's all, regardless of what Leher or anyone else wanted.

In which case, if McCain had objections to the format of the debate - including the changing of etiquette - he should have made those objections known before the debate took place rather than simply override the format as he saw fit. Such an attitude does not bode well when placed in a more delicate situation with leaders of foreign nations who might not be so forgiving of it.

Where does it say leadership is more potent is practiced without grace?

Edited September 29, 2008 by Leonardo