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Anybody watching the debate? Thoughts?


Dixie-Girl

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yes...Ron Paul addressed this issue when he made a speech a few weeks back, at the National Press Club, and urged voters to vote 3rd Party...

Mr. Paul mentioned how, after the 1988 or 1992 elections, a special committee was formed to decide what, where and how the questions and formats would

be used and determined at Presidential debates..... the kicker.... a Democrat and a Republican were placed in charge of the newly formed Committee.....

...the whole thing is a scam and should only be viewed with modest skeptism........... My Country, Canada, seems to be following in the same footsteps........

VOTE ANY 3RD PARTY CANDIDATE.................JUST VOTE..........everyone................... burn the white house down...lol(just kiddin)

So The dems and Pubs just said No independants could Speak?Because they are incharege.

This seems very Un democratic,

Love Omnaka

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You noticed that too I see. Obama did give a warm handshake and attempted eye contact with McCain at the beginning and at the end I heard him say "Good job"..

I didn't hear McCain say that (but he certainly could of..).

I'm glad you and Blondigeist noticed this as well. Its nice to know I'm not insane and nor is acidhead!

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Yes I saw the interview. Here's the kicker, over 50% of Americans want Barr in the debates.

I would like to see Bob Barr in them. I don't like Bob Barr, at least I didn't when he was a Republican. Perhaps he has changed?

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So The dems and Pubs just said No independants could Speak?Because they are incharege.

This seems very Un democratic,

Love Omnaka

It is un-democratic..(and a damn shame too..)

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There are certain requirements that are impossible for a third party to meet. These standards are of course controlled by republicans and democrats.

One of the problems is that traditionally, third parties in American have risen or fallen based on their strength in a particular region. It happened with the Republicans (who started as a Free Soil Party in the West and absorbed the Whigs once the Whig Party - one of the Big Two in American politics at the time - collapsed in the 1850s), it happened with the Populists (who also gained power as a progressive party in the West and in certain areas like Wisconsin under Robert LaFollete), it happened with the Dixiecrats (who drew most of their strength from the racist South), and it happened with George Wallace's candidacy.

That's where the issues with today's third parties come in. Virtually none of them have a strong enough regional presence beyond perhaps the county or small city level to establish a "base area" to get into national office from; the Greens are largely scattered across the United States, and the Libertarians, while stronger in the West and New Hampshire, just aren't distinct enough from the Republicans to draw away a significant number of Republican supporters (instead, you end up with libertarian Republicans, like Barry Goldwater of Arizona). The Constitution Party is just weak across the board, and most of the other third parties are almost completely insignificant (with one exception, which is Bernie Sanders - a socialist, although he chooses to go as an "independent" in Congress who caucuses with Democrats). And even if they had a strong presence in a regional area, history is working against them; none of the third parties survived as meaningful parties beyond the conditions that initially created them except for the Republicans, and that's only because the Republicans absorbed the Whigs and became one of the Big Two "globular" parties.

The other problem is that this kind of regional strength is becoming more and more difficult for third parties to someone as political races on all levels of government become more partisan and competitive. The pressure on the Big Two to win is enormous, so they either heavily go for co-opting third party voters (winning many of them and leaving the third-party insignificant and weak), or they actively seek to marginalize the perceived "spoiler".

Edited by Guardsman Bass
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So The dems and Pubs just said No independants could Speak?Because they are incharege.

This seems very Un democratic,

Love Omnaka

...this is why Ron Pauls message of Liberty has gone viral across the planet, not just in America... its resonating in my viens as we speak!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I really don't think many people are going to bother considering that McCain is a racist. Besides, if the media makes it an issue, McCain has two more debates left to revitalized his "racist" image. Right now, it is indeed a non-issue, I feel. Also, I'd be interested in someone going back to the Republican Primary and seeing if McCain looked at his opponents much in those debates - all white fellers. Also, pictures of McCain hugging Obama and smiling have been offered. I don't know how anyone can justify calling him a racist because he was straitlaced and stern in a debate. I think that's just the McCain in McCain coming out. Just a straitlaced, stern fellow.

Well considering how the US is regarded by the rest of the world these days we might not want a straight laced stern fellow representing our country. Simple diplomacy matters.

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I would like to see Bob Barr in them. I don't like Bob Barr, at least I didn't when he was a Republican. Perhaps he has changed?

Very much.

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One of the problems is that traditionally, third parties in American have risen or fallen based on their strength in a particular region. It happened with the Republicans (who started as a Free Soil Party in the West and absorbed the Whigs once the Whig Party - one of the Big Two in American politics at the time - collapsed in the 1850s), it happened with the Populists (who also gained power as a progressive party in the West and in certain areas like Wisconsin under Robert LaFollete), it happened with the Dixiecrats (who drew most of their strength from the racist South), and it happened with George Wallace's candidacy.

That's where the issues with today's third parties come in. Virtually none of them have a strong enough regional presence beyond perhaps the county or small city level to establish a "base area" to get into national office from; the Greens are largely scattered across the United States, and the Libertarians, while stronger in the West and New Hampshire, just aren't distinct enough from the Republicans to draw away a significant number of Republican supporters (instead, you end up with libertarian Republicans, like Barry Goldwater of Arizona). The Constitution Party is just weak across the board, and most of the other third parties are almost completely insignificant (with one exception, which is Bernie Sanders - a socialist, although he chooses to go as an "independent" in Congress who caucuses with Democrats). And even if they had a strong presence in a regional area, history is working against them; none of the third parties survived as meaningful parties beyond the conditions that initially created them except for the Republicans, and that's only because the Republicans absorbed the Whigs and became one of the Big Two "globular" parties.

The other problem is that this kind of regional strength is becoming more and more difficult for third parties to someone as political races on all levels of government become more partisan and competitive. The pressure on the Big Two to win is enormous, so they either heavily go for co-opting third party voters (winning many of them and leaving the third-party insignificant and weak), or they actively seek to marginalize the perceived "spoiler".

True as all that is, were they to get media attention and be allowed on the debates, we both know that would start to change. So unless the democrats and republicans are afraid of the "loony lolbertarins" and the other third parties, why shut them out?

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Well considering how the US is regarded by the rest of the world these days we might not want a straight laced stern fellow representing our country. Simple diplomacy matters.

Well, I think whoever is elected, things will improve -------- drastically!

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True as all that is, were they to get media attention and be allowed on the debates, we both know that would start to change. So unless the democrats and republicans are afraid of the "loony lolbertarins" and the other third parties, why shut them out?

Two heded snake and Coke.

Love Omnaka

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Well, I think whoever is elected, things will improve -------- drastically!

That's exactly what I thought until I saw recent interviews with Sarah Palin that sounded like Bushette and now tonite with Mc Stiff as blondigeist put it. Its disappointing to say the least. I want a charismatic diplomatic intelligent president.

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True as all that is, were they to get media attention and be allowed on the debates, we both know that would start to change. So unless the democrats and republicans are afraid of the "loony lolbertarins" and the other third parties, why shut them out?

Personally, I think any party that can get at least 5-10% of the population supporting it nation-wide in a series of polls should be allowed to attend the debates. The Libertarians and (possibly) the Greens might qualify. At the very least, it would force both parties to defend stupidity like what happened with the Russia "argument" between McCain and Obama in the debate.

I'm skeptical about simply getting national attention changing this, though. Perot and his Vice President were included in the debates in 1992, had plenty of national exposure for him and his Reform Party, and what did it get them? One governorship in Minnesota (and even this is iffy, since Ventura was also a celebrity), and that's it - the Reform Party is gone.

Edited by Guardsman Bass
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When thi dies down I would like some feedback to my way to end the war, which I posted about 10 pages Back.

Thanks.

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Personally, I think any party that can get at least 5-10% of the population supporting it nation-wide in a series of polls should be allowed to attend the debates. The Libertarians and (possibly) the Greens might qualify. At the very least, it would force both parties to defend stupidity like what happened with the Russia "argument" between McCain and Obama in the debate.

Libertarians are garning 2% in nation wide and Green Part are getting 1%, Nader is getting over 5%.

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Personally, I think any party that can get at least 5-10% of the population supporting it nation-wide in a series of polls should be allowed to attend the debates. The Libertarians and (possibly) the Greens might qualify. At the very least, it would force both parties to defend stupidity like what happened with the Russia "argument" between McCain and Obama in the debate.

Yeah, I think the Libertarian Party and the Green Party should be allowed in the debate. I don't know, maybe they think it'll cause some Electoral College problems if too many like this one, then too many like that one, and so on. Who the hell knows.

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Personally, I think any party that can get at least 5-10% of the population supporting it nation-wide in a series of polls should be allowed to attend the debates. The Libertarians and (possibly) the Greens might qualify. At the very least, it would force both parties to defend stupidity like what happened with the Russia "argument" between McCain and Obama in the debate.

I think any Canidate which can afford Air Fair should be alowed to participate, Why not make it a three day event at 8 hrs a day, Make em earn thier money instead of this scripted farce Perpetrated On the public.

Love Omnaka

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Libertarians are garning 2% in nation wide and Green Part are getting 1%, Nader is getting over 5%.

They'd get more, I feel, if more people had access to their message! I like the Libertarian Party views on some things. I like the Green Party views on some things. Basically, I want the Me-Party. Meaning, a party that supports and rejects everything I do! I'm a pro-life liberal who believes we shouldn't take any **** from any other country - period. WTF!! I got nobody!

Edited by IrishLexie
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That's exactly what I thought until I saw recent interviews with Sarah Palin that sounded like Bushette and now tonite with Mc Stiff as blondigeist put it. Its disappointing to say the least. I want a charismatic diplomatic intelligent president.

Definitely. The next POTUS will have a nightmare of issues to deal with on the international arena as well. Just not Iraq, the economy and the domestic issues.

We need a velvet glove for that right now..

Edited by Pinky Floyd
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It's actually a photograph:

linked-image

The photographed proves McCain looked at Obama.

It's ironic how the anti-Bush people complain about how Bush lied about WMD but then have no problem telling lies themselves.

Not to be nit-picky but McCain isn't looking Obama in the eye...there's a difference. He snuck a glance while Obama was looking down...

I just quoted this post because I didn't want to go back looking for the pic...

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Yeah, I think the Libertarian Party and the Green Party should be allowed in the debate. I don't know, maybe they think it'll cause some Electoral College problems if too many like this one, then too many like that one, and so on. Who the hell knows.

That almost sounds Like democracy.

Love Omnaka

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Not to be nit-picky but McCain isn't looking Obama in the eye...there's a difference. He snuck a glance while Obama was looking down...

I just quoted this post because I didn't want to go back looking for the pic...

OK enough of this , Who the hell cares who looked at who and why?

What's the big Deal?

I don't want to search Back twenty pages to find out Why so just fuill me in.

Love Omnaka

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I would not vote for anyone who would reward a gambeler over the people They are sworn to serve.

They both are for a bail out at the Taxpayers expense. Diferent words, same Ideal.

Would you?

Love Omnaka

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Not to be nit-picky but McCain isn't looking Obama in the eye...there's a difference. He snuck a glance while Obama was looking down...

I just quoted this post because I didn't want to go back looking for the pic...

I"m pretty good at body language (I'm a Realtor-I have to be).

It was not hard to ascertain that McCain went out of his way to avoid any showing of "amicable" gestures towards Obama. Not even hitting the aformentioned slights during the beginning and ending, he even looked (stage) left most all of the time to avoid even putting 'bama in his peripheral field of view during the debate, whereas Obama was looking side to side during his speeches and even gestured toward McCain a couple of times. McCain would also 'fumble' with his papers while Obama talked, while Obama looked directly towards McCain while he was gabbing...(go ahead, watch it again and see for yourself..).

Simple alpha male behavior (not unexpected really)..

/the mouth may say one thing, but the body says the truth (usually).

Edited by Pinky Floyd
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