Killed sergeant's family asked Obama

[danielost]

Isn't wearing a bracelet for one soldier some kind of favouritism? Like I remember this dead soldier more than the rest? If you're going to wear a bracelet(and you supported the war), you should be made to wear one for each soldier, civilian and contractor who has died so far in that conflict.

Not such a gimmick now is it?

No this is totally political. Has nothing to do with honoring anyone. In both cases it is a way to win votes. Unless McCain was asked about it before he offered the info.

[danielost]

How the hell can they tell Obama not to do it, and when he does it they are happy. something doesn't seem right here

Maybe dad doesn't want him to wear it and mom is just happy her son is being remembered.

[eqgumby]

Who really cares?

Thanks for reminding us that the Onion was right in reporting that the most important issue to voters in this election is BS!

Here's a fact, Cesear:

US troops abroad donate 6 TIMES more to Obama then to McCain. This gives us a real hint on who they actually favor.

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/08/tr...ad-give-61.html

So I hope we can stop babbling about bracelets as if they are important what-so-ever to the election and focus on some real issues.

Cheers,

SQLserver

Here is a REAL shocker. And it's taken from YOUR OWN LINK. Try reading what you use as a source.

A former West Point professor, Jason Dempsey, noted that the small set of contributions from deployed troops at this point in 2008 -- just 323 donations -- should not be extrapolated to form conclusions about military personnel overall. "If, on a bad day, a guy gets that letter that says [his tour has been extended] from 12 to 15 months, that could spur a quick donation and expression of anger," he said. "Donating helps members of the military express their political views privately."

Your statement about who they favor is misleading to say the least.

In my personal experiences, we military people also never felt the need to donate and SAY we were military. We just donated as CITIZENS. What you are seeing is a few hundred people, probably African American, probably junior enlisted people who never thought they would actually have to DO ANYTHING in their reserve unit or National Guard unit, donating via Obama's website because all it takes is a click of a mouse, in the hopes that the day he is elected to office they can all come home and collect disability for the rest of their lives.

[danielost]

Here is a REAL shocker. And it's taken from YOUR OWN LINK. Try reading what you use as a source.

Your statement about who they favor is misleading to say the least.

In my personal experiences, we military people also never felt the need to donate and SAY we were military. We just donated as CITIZENS. What you are seeing is a few hundred people, probably African American, probably junior enlisted people who never thought they would actually have to DO ANYTHING in their reserve unit or National Guard unit, donating via Obama's website because all it takes is a click of a mouse, in the hopes that the day he is elected to office they can all come home and collect disability for the rest of their lives.

I am sorry but this statement is way to bigoted to me.

Edited September 29, 2008 by danielost

[Guardsman Bass]

How the hell can they tell Obama not to do it, and when he does it they are happy. something doesn't seem right here

That probably means that your source is bull, Caesar. Let it go, okay? Go find something else about Obama that you don't like to nitpick.

[The Silver Thong]

That probably means that your source is bull, Caesar. Let it go, okay? Go find something else about Obama that you don't like to nitpick.

Oh great now the next thing he'll harp on is that he's to tall

[eqgumby]

I am sorry but this statement is way to bigoted to me.

And how is that? How far from the truth do you think it is? Do you honestly think that when you donate money to a campaign, you are required to inform them that you are active duty military serving in IRAQ? This is just a poor attempt at propaganda to imply the "troops" overwhelmingly support Obama, and it's just NOT true, at least according to this article. I actually showed where it says that, in the same article!! And NOWHERE is there a breakdown of who these supposed supporters are, other than they are supposedly military. How do they know they are military, and how do they know where they are serving? They have one persons quote. That's it. And guess who he is!!?? It's a PR stunt to make you THINK the military in Iraq support Obama! A fake!

Notes From Rebecca Gladstone, DPO:SCC meeting, July 12-13. Caucuses, new Election Protection Caucus forming, Black Caucus, Latino Caucus reactivating. Getting ready for DNC in Denver, Aug 25-28. Gearing up for Campaign Obama, offices opening soon, any day!!Your Obama Field Organizer is Jay Navas, navas@gmail.com He’s an active duty soldier, on leave from an assignment in Iraq, based in Medford, and here already! He’s due to go back before the campaign is over, so make him welcome!

http://curry.oregondemocrats.org/node/47

That's right, the ONE guy quoted in the article...Jay Navas. Here is his quote from the article under discussion. He's a FRAUD

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/08/tr...ad-give-61.html

Army Specialist Jay Navas contributed $250 while deployed in Iraq, but it wasn't over the Internet. "It took some effort to get that check. I had my mom send me my checkbook and I walked to the post office in Camp Liberty in Baghdad with an envelope addressed to Barack Obama in Chicago, Illinois," he said. "He was right on Iraq long when others were jumping into the sea like lemmings, and that's hard to do. We're soldiers and we respect courage."

Edited September 29, 2008 by eqgumby

[Oderint]

this is rediculous.

I wear two livestrong bands to "honor" two people I knew who died from cancer.

does that make me suited to lead a country? Heck no.

[eqgumby]

And how is that? How far from the truth do you think it is? Do you honestly think that when you donate money to a campaign, you are required to inform them that you are active duty military serving in IRAQ? This is just a poor attempt at propaganda to imply the "troops" overwhelmingly support Obama, and it's just NOT true, at least according to this article. I actually showed where it says that, in the same article!! And NOWHERE is there a breakdown of who these supposed supporters are, other than they are supposedly military. How do they know they are military, and how do they know where they are serving? They have one persons quote. That's it. And guess who he is!!?? It's a PR stunt to make you THINK the military in Iraq support Obama! A fake!

http://curry.oregondemocrats.org/node/47

That's right, the ONE guy quoted in the article...Jay Navas. Here is his quote from the article under discussion. He's a FRAUD

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/08/tr...ad-give-61.html

I can't believe NO ONE has commented on this TOTAL and COMPLETE bust!

QUOTE

Notes From Rebecca Gladstone, DPO:SCC meeting, July 12-13. Caucuses, new Election Protection Caucus forming, Black Caucus, Latino Caucus reactivating. Getting ready for DNC in Denver, Aug 25-28. Gearing up for Campaign Obama, offices opening soon, any day!!Your Obama Field Organizer is Jay Navas, navas@gmail.com He’s an active duty soldier, on leave from an assignment in Iraq, based in Medford, and here already! He’s due to go back before the campaign is over, so make him welcome!

Army Specialist Jay Navas contributed $250 while deployed in Iraq, but it wasn't over the Internet. "It took some effort to get that check. I had my mom send me my checkbook and I walked to the post office in Camp Liberty in Baghdad with an envelope addressed to Barack Obama in Chicago, Illinois," he said. "He was right on Iraq long when others were jumping into the sea like lemmings, and that's hard to do. We're soldiers and we respect courage."

QUOTE (sqlserver @ Sep 28 2008, 05:53 PM)

Who really cares?

Thanks for reminding us that the Onion was right in reporting that the most important issue to voters in this election is BS!

Here's a fact, Cesear:

US troops abroad donate 6 TIMES more to Obama then to McCain. This gives us a real hint on who they actually favor.

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/08/tr...ad-give-61.html

So I hope we can stop babbling about bracelets as if they are important what-so-ever to the election and focus on some real issues.

Cheers,

SQLserver

I SO busted sql !!

[Caesar]

I can't believe NO ONE has commented on this TOTAL and COMPLETE bust!

QUOTE

Notes From Rebecca Gladstone, DPO:SCC meeting, July 12-13. Caucuses, new Election Protection Caucus forming, Black Caucus, Latino Caucus reactivating. Getting ready for DNC in Denver, Aug 25-28. Gearing up for Campaign Obama, offices opening soon, any day!!Your Obama Field Organizer is Jay Navas, navas@gmail.com He’s an active duty soldier, on leave from an assignment in Iraq, based in Medford, and here already! He’s due to go back before the campaign is over, so make him welcome!

Army Specialist Jay Navas contributed $250 while deployed in Iraq, but it wasn't over the Internet. "It took some effort to get that check. I had my mom send me my checkbook and I walked to the post office in Camp Liberty in Baghdad with an envelope addressed to Barack Obama in Chicago, Illinois," he said. "He was right on Iraq long when others were jumping into the sea like lemmings, and that's hard to do. We're soldiers and we respect courage."

I SO busted sql !!

Wooot Wooot

[eqgumby]

Wooot Wooot

I'm just tooting my own horn, because so RARELY am I able to so CLEARLY debunk something without relying on OTHER peoples detective work!

Just a little web research showed me who this guy was that was quoted in the article that was sourced here, which SUPPOSEDLY proved the military in IRAQ overwhelmingly supported Obama. Ha! The "random soldier" actually works for Obama!

Besides, why would he be in Iraq, and have to have his Mother send him his checkbook to Iraq, just so he could write a check? Then, he makes a big deal about writing a check and walking to the post office in Camp Freedom? Whatever! That to me, just implies that he's an moron. There are plenty of OTHER ways to make his donation.

Besides, does any one HONESTLY believe that anyone counts donations from military members specifically? Hell no! active duty military are NOT required to tell anyone who they donate their money too!

[msmischief]

I can't believe NO ONE has commented on this TOTAL and COMPLETE bust!

QUOTE

Notes From Rebecca Gladstone, DPO:SCC meeting, July 12-13. Caucuses, new Election Protection Caucus forming, Black Caucus, Latino Caucus reactivating. Getting ready for DNC in Denver, Aug 25-28. Gearing up for Campaign Obama, offices opening soon, any day!!Your Obama Field Organizer is Jay Navas, navas@gmail.com He’s an active duty soldier, on leave from an assignment in Iraq, based in Medford, and here already! He’s due to go back before the campaign is over, so make him welcome!

Army Specialist Jay Navas contributed $250 while deployed in Iraq, but it wasn't over the Internet. "It took some effort to get that check. I had my mom send me my checkbook and I walked to the post office in Camp Liberty in Baghdad with an envelope addressed to Barack Obama in Chicago, Illinois," he said. "He was right on Iraq long when others were jumping into the sea like lemmings, and that's hard to do. We're soldiers and we respect courage."

I SO busted sql !!

That's right, the ONE guy quoted in the article...Jay Navas. Here is his quote from the article under discussion. He's a FRAUD

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/08/tr...ad-give-61.html

You're right about this not proving overwhelming military support for Obama and the soldier does work for Obama's campaign, so of course he's going to state who he donated to but I don't understand how this makes him a fraud?

Besides, why would he be in Iraq, and have to have his Mother send him his checkbook to Iraq, just so he could write a check? Then, he makes a big deal about writing a check and walking to the post office in Camp Freedom? Whatever! That to me, just implies that he's an moron. There are plenty of OTHER ways to make his donation.

I also, don't understand the issue with this. Clearly, he is an Obama supporter, so why would he make a quiet, anonymous donation over the internet? Instead, he used this gesture as an opportunity to show his support, probably in hope that he would encourage others to do the same. Definitely not a moronic move IMO.

[eqgumby]

You're right about this not proving overwhelming military support for Obama and the soldier does work for Obama's campaign, so of course he's going to state who he donated to but I don't understand how this makes him a fraud?

I also, don't understand the issue with this. Clearly, he is an Obama supporter, so why would he make a quiet, anonymous donation over the internet? Instead, he used this gesture as an opportunity to show his support, probably in hope that he would encourage others to do the same. Definitely not a moronic move IMO.

The point is he is quoted in one article as being a typical soldier in Iraq. Without identifying him as a worker in Obamas campaign. He intentionally is not ID'd as an Obama worker, implying he is Joe Average soldier. It's false and misleading.

Then, he makes a statement about his Mom sending him a checkbook, yada yada. It's bologna. It's a canned article, designed to draw attention to "Obama supporters in Iraq". How much MORE transparent can you get?

[Tiggs]

Besides, does any one HONESTLY believe that anyone counts donations from military members specifically? Hell no! active duty military are NOT required to tell anyone who they donate their money too!

It might not be as left field as you think - all candidates are obliged to record all donations with the Federal Elections Commission, including name, address and amount, in order to ensure that each donor doesn't donate past the maximum allowable to any given campaign.

I'm not entirely sure, but I guess that it would be feasible that Overseas soldiers would have to list two addresses, one of which would be military.

[eqgumby]

It might not be as left field as you think - all candidates are obliged to record all donations with the Federal Elections Commission, including name, address and amount, in order to ensure that each donor doesn't donate past the maximum allowable to any given campaign.

I'm not entirely sure, but I guess that it would be feasible that Overseas soldiers would have to list two addresses, one of which would be military.

In my twenty years of service, I was never required to inform any one that I was military when donating. To track people by name and ss#, then to see what party (or more specifically what candidate) they donated to would be a violation of law. The Privacy Act of 1974 (I think it was 74...). Somehow, someone would have to have cause to go through all these ss#'s and sort them by those in the military, then sort what party (or candidate) they donated to. It would be a big no-no.

[Tiggs]

In my twenty years of service, I was never required to inform any one that I was military when donating. To track people by name and ss#, then to see what party (or more specifically what candidate) they donated to would be a violation of law. The Privacy Act of 1974 (I think it was 74...). Somehow, someone would have to have cause to go through all these ss#'s and sort them by those in the military, then sort what party (or candidate) they donated to. It would be a big no-no.

As luck would have it - I just happen to have a copy of the database to hand.

It's much more simpler than that. They record Name, Address(County or City only), state, Zip, Employer, contribution date, contribution amount & campaign.

[eqgumby]

As luck would have it - I just happen to have a copy of the database to hand.

It's much more simpler than that. They record Name, Address(County or City only), state, Zip, Employer, contribution date, contribution amount & campaign.

Oddly enough, i never was required to supply all that info. What's up with that?

[Lt_Ripley]

My point is how the hell can you tell Obama not to do something and he does it anyways

I was a Marine and I don't know anyone in Iraq that supports Obama. I think this is another topic for another discussion that has been discussed so many times already. I think those polls were done when the Iraq war was in question if we would win or not.

well , you must not have known alot of people there.

By a 6:1 margin deployed US troops who have made campaign contributions in '08 don't question Barack's patriotism. America's fighting men and women whose lives are most on the line seem to favor Obama. Military personnel making presidential campaign donations appear to believe, by an overwhelming six to one ratio, that an Obama presidency would benefit the US military and US national security more than would a McCain presidency.

The story has gone out via AP, UPI, USA Today and ABC (at least) but it needs far more traction. Net traction will help.

Now, the right wing echo chamber will of course try to claim this new Open Secrets study is flawed and/or biased. But major media outlets such as ABC are giving this study full credence.

Here are some key talking points:

1. US military 2008 presidential campaign donations, from deployed US troops, favor Barack Obama over John McCain by a 6:1 margin.

2. The Open Secrets study was comprehensive - as ABC notes, "The center tallied money from donors who list the Air Force, Army, Marines, Navy and National Guard as an employer".

3. US military personnel have made a major shift in their donations, in favor of the Democratic Party, since 2002, when military donations favored the GOP by almost 5:1. Now, in '08, those donations favor the GOP only 3:2. That's a huge shift.

4. Anti-war presidential candidates got the lion's share of US military personnel presidential campaign donations in '08. Barack Obama is beating John McCain by 6:1`but Ron Paul, who has curtailed his campaign, nonetheless currently tops McCain by 4:1. US military personnel have expressed a clear preference through their campaign donations.

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/08/tr...ad-give-61.html

[eqgumby]

well , you must not have known alot of people there.

By a 6:1 margin deployed US troops who have made campaign contributions in '08 don't question Barack's patriotism. America's fighting men and women whose lives are most on the line seem to favor Obama. Military personnel making presidential campaign donations appear to believe, by an overwhelming six to one ratio, that an Obama presidency would benefit the US military and US national security more than would a McCain presidency.

The story has gone out via AP, UPI, USA Today and ABC (at least) but it needs far more traction. Net traction will help.

Now, the right wing echo chamber will of course try to claim this new Open Secrets study is flawed and/or biased. But major media outlets such as ABC are giving this study full credence.

Here are some key talking points:

1. US military 2008 presidential campaign donations, from deployed US troops, favor Barack Obama over John McCain by a 6:1 margin.

2. The Open Secrets study was comprehensive - as ABC notes, "The center tallied money from donors who list the Air Force, Army, Marines, Navy and National Guard as an employer".

3. US military personnel have made a major shift in their donations, in favor of the Democratic Party, since 2002, when military donations favored the GOP by almost 5:1. Now, in '08, those donations favor the GOP only 3:2. That's a huge shift.

4. Anti-war presidential candidates got the lion's share of US military personnel presidential campaign donations in '08. Barack Obama is beating John McCain by 6:1`but Ron Paul, who has curtailed his campaign, nonetheless currently tops McCain by 4:1. US military personnel have expressed a clear preference through their campaign donations.

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/08/tr...ad-give-61.html

Unfortunately, that open secrets source is crappy. As well as intentionally misleading. Take a look a few posts up to see what liars they are.

There are troops that support Obama, primarily the very young and the African American and Latin troops. The margin is just not what it's cooked up to be.