Why there are "militant" atheists

[Michelle]

Like I said, I believe most people go to church out of social obligation, rather than spiritual need, just like you did.

Social obligation, habit and business contacts. I think that is why the U.S. rates so high on polls as to how many people are christians. It's more of an automated response than a personal one. Otherwise, I think they give it very little thought.

[BlindMessiah]

If that were true the vast majority of Christian churches wouldn't be supporting Proposition 8. Obviously they do care what other's believe (& do) that should in reality be none of their business.

Yep and we keep getting fliers in the mail for Amendment 2, Florida's equivalent. If Proposition 8 is passed, in California, the most progressive state for gay rights, that will be a huge victory for the eighty million evangelicals out there.

[BlindMessiah]

It made their day that I went to Church with them.

Gave them hope you weren't too far gone.

My son and I were just shocked that politics were discussed in church that day.

My church discusses politics afterward, but the pastor never does because it's illegal. Did the pastor say from the pulpit to vote for Bush?

[Lt_Ripley]

Militant atheists scare me. The ones who drip with hatred and post with a putrid desire to see my faith eradicated. I fear one day they will put us in concentration camps because we do not think as they do. It might not happen but hatred are the seeds of such things. When one group considers themselves so different than another, and they consider the other a threat, sometimes people then do terrible things. You scare me!

sure........... like christians haven't......... pure as driven snow they are ! would never hurt someone based on a difference of opinion or religion. Love living in peace ! Both of those last 2 statements only apply if the opinion and religion fits snuggly with theirs !!

if your different but wanted to be treated equally you'll be crushed with the boot of christian love. Extremist christians screaming ' this country was founded as a christian country ' !!! It's ours !! No doubt they are the ones cramming McCain /Palin speeches screaming 'kill him , off with his head' about Obama. lovely christians. Who just in the past few days kicked down a black camera man , old ladies ( a whole group) beat on 2 guys with Obama signs. yes peaceful christians. born again christian Bush who starts a needless war with BS and lies , saying God spoke to him , while calling it a crusade......

gee with christians like these.... what's not to fear ?

seems the seeds of hate stem from christians. stems from religion.

My church discusses politics afterward, but the pastor never does because it's illegal. Did the pastor say from the pulpit to vote for Bush?

my granmothers church , a catholic church , has a radio program on saturdays. when Bush was running in 04 the priest didn't come out right and say a vote for Bush would be the right way for a christian to vote , but he made it pretty clear. I was horrified because this was after it was told for them not to get involved by the pope. which I guess is code for be slimy and try to sway the vote . hypocrites.

Edited October 20, 2008 by Lt_Ripley

[aquatus1]

Well lets look at the bell curve of the muslim population of this world. Would you claim that they only hold a vast minority who cares what other people believe?

I would claim that they, like any other religion, have a bell curve in which a minority ("vast" minority is something of an oxymoron) care a great deal about what other's believe, and go out of their way to make sure it is know. A minority on the other end of the curve, don't really believe themselves, and the majority (the vast majority) lie in the middle of the bell curve (because, see, that is what a bell curve is), and they care more about daily life and their own spiritual needs to be bothered overly much about that of others.

What I am pondering about is that I see people all the time toss terms like "vast minority" and "vast majority" around like it was a sensefull claim. I hardly ever think it is, and so I wonder how these claims are so easily concluded.. I smell they are because people like to sugar coat reality.

In this case you claimed the vast majority of believers don''t care what others believe, I think you are incorrect based on the very nature of what some of the religions I looked into teaches. Based on what I see going on in this world. The bell curve that shows a vastness would include how much +/- ? In my mind a VAST majority would be well above 90% of a total but thats me.

I don't think that you understand what a bell curve is. By it's nature, a bell curve indicates that a majority lies in the middle. If, on the other hand, you had a positive line graph, instead of a bell curve, that would indicate that there is a greater percentage doing something.

But, of course, that is if you are talking about graphs and statistics. I was not, and i can't imagine how anyone reading my flippant remark would think I was making specific claims. I used "vast minority" in the same way that others use "I'm 99.9% sure!". It isn't a precision claim, indicating that I have mathematical proof that there is a 99.9% probability, but simply a common and generally used expression to indicate that the majority of the population is being referred to. The horse is dead; you can put the stick down now.

Your definitions seem pretty homemade to me as they are a paradox to read. A fundamentalist is one who belives the faith to the letter no? so their belief is dictated by what is written then, if action is written as part of that faith then they fit what you label extreme.

No. A fundamentalist believes their faith to the letter. An extremist carries out action in the name of their belief.

Meaning that if the faith they subscribe to indicates they should have a problem with another belief they do, the action you like to put in extreme is included in the essence of what fundamentalism is.

Not at all. As I said before, extremism implies some sort of radical action to correct the belief of others. A fundamentalist can believe and remain silent, pray, converse with others, and do many things to convert others beliefs that are not considered extreme. Extremists, on the other hand, are rarely classified as anything other than extreme. Their actions regarding those who do not believe what they do involves arrests, beatings, isolation, and suicide bombs.

I find it hard to take your conclusion serious on what interrest all people who go to church actually have. Precisely as hard as when I hear people toss vast minority and majority labels around like it was hello and good day.

Well, good, you shouldn't take such flippant remarks so seriously, certainly not as seriously as you have taken it here. When all is said and done, these remarks where used in precisely in the same way that people use "Good day.", and "How are you?". People are generally not interested in how good a day someone has, or how they are feeling; they just say them because of societal obligation. Heck, usually they don't even bother waiting for an answer.

[Doug1029]

Militant atheists scare me. The ones who drip with hatred and post with a putrid desire to see my faith eradicated. I fear one day they will put us in concentration camps because we do not think as they do. It might not happen but hatred are the seeds of such things. When one group considers themselves so different than another, and they consider the other a threat, sometimes people then do terrible things. You scare me!

Disclaimer: I'm an agnostic, not an atheist, but I get lumped in with atheists by the ignorant, and to tell the truth, I'm not entirely uncomforatble with the label.

That being said, replace "atheists" in your statement with "Christians," and you will see what I fear.

Witch hunts have happened before in America and with what I hear coming from the religious right, I fear they may come again.

Doug

[Doug1029]

It's an exciting time right now and athiesim is the fastest growing belief right now, so look out believers we are going to take over soon and put you all in concentration camps lol

We already have those: they're called "schools." Doug

[Doug1029]

I don't quite understand where that comes from. Halloween is a HUGE holiday where I live in the Bible belt.

I hung a six-pointed star on my Christmas tree. You should have heard the storm that kicked off around the neighborhood. I have several friends who are Jews and I wanted to remember them: my wife baked "Hanuka cookies" for everybody. Things seem to have quieted down, especially since we rescued the most-vocal one's dog from the highway median.

Doug

[Doug1029]

Yes HaParash. I have something against Christianity and Islam. The reasons are obvious. Christian fundamentalists destroyed my life and Muslim fundamentalists attacked and killed 3,000 people in my country. It's pretty obvious that feelings of mistrust are brought on by actions.

I know that Christian fundamentalists can be quite destructive and smug about it. I've had a few run-ins with them, but they haven't destroyed my life, at least, not yet. I'm curious about how they destroyed yours. Would you care to elaborate?

Doug

[Doug1029]

How would you define vast majority? 98% 90%?

I never quite managed to conclude what you (and many others) seem to do about what is actually a vast majority or minority.

I would claim that at the very least 50% of all muslims care about the beliefs of others as an excample. Would you conclude that when a country upholds a government that dictates is politics based on a religion they have a majority of fundamentalists within it to be able to do so? Would you label fundamentalists as extremes?

Define "vast majority" as >85% and you should be about right. That's close enough for the vast majority. Doug

[BlindMessiah]

I know that Christian fundamentalists can be quite destructive and smug about it. I've had a few run-ins with them, but they haven't destroyed my life, at least, not yet. I'm curious about how they destroyed yours. Would you care to elaborate?

Doug

Well my entire family, everyone I knew, and all my friends were Christian fundamentalists. When I became an atheist I lost all of my friends, became subject to verbal assault at school, and lost respect of everyone I knew, parents and authority figures. So, they didn't really destroy my life, but they ruined the last few years of my life.

[momentarylapseofreason]

Gave them hope you weren't too far gone.

My church discusses politics afterward, but the pastor never does because it's illegal. Did the pastor say from the pulpit to vote for Bush?

I can't remember all the details, this was right before Bush's second term and he closed his sermon with "I sincerely hope that you are supporting Bush by placing your vote...................blah blah ..something along those lines" He never said "vote for Bush" directly-

But it was something like that & I instantly kind of lost respect-

He stated that Bush supports our Christian values and is a man of faith. If his values are Christian values...I don't know..he is the farthest removed from being Christ like in his behavior. I see Jimmy Carter more as a real & good Christian man. I Love that man !

[BlindMessiah]

I can't remember all the details, this was right before Bush's second term and he closed his sermon with "I sincerely hope that you are supporting Bush by placing your vote...................blah blah ..something along those lines" He never said "vote for Bush" directly-

Well that's illegal. Although, it happens a lot on both side of the political aisle.

But it was something like that & I instantly kind of lost respect-

He stated that Bush supports our Christian values and is a man of faith. If his values are Christian values...I don't know..he is the farthest removed from being Christ like in his behavior. I see Jimmy Carter more as a real & good Christian man. I Love that man !

When he said Bush is a Christian man, what he meant to say was, Bush is for creationism, is pro-life, and against gay marriage.

Jimmy Carter, lousy president, good Christian? George Bush, lousy president, lousy Christian?