The Creationist's Timeline

[Ziggy Stardust]

Radiometric age dating has revealed that the Earth is around 4.54 billion years old.

In the Bible, however, If we go back only 6000 years, we come to the time of Creation, and Adam and Eve (4004 BC). Luke, evangelist and historian, records Adam as the first man (Luke 3:38).

The earth is about 6000 years old. Let God's people rejoice in Him who made them! (Psalm 149:2)

Richard Dawkins showed that the mistaken thinking of creationists is the same as mistaking the distance between New York and San Francisco to be 21 feet.

It would be natural to assume, if you were a creationist, that dinosaurs were also created 6000 years ago. However, dinosaur fossils are at least 65 million years old.

[+Link of Hyrule]

There are a few problems that arise in my mind when reading this:

1- it assumes a literal creation in Genesis. The text does not necessarily support this view (I've shared why in the past, but I can share again if you wish).

2- assuming it is literal, it ignores the length of time that Adam and Eve could have been in Eden. For all we know, they might have been living in Eden for 15 billion years before disobeying God. The Bible does not say. But as said, this is assuming a literal account.

3- it ignores the writing convention of the day, which had historians skipping generations in genealogies depending on whether the historian felt the patriarch was "important" enough to be listed. As such, two historians could come up with completely separate genealogies depending on who they thought was important in history. As such, the genealogy of Luke could be seen only as a representation of the full genealogy and could include many more that were not mentioned by name. We have no real idea how many generations Luke might have skipped - we just know it was a convention of the day to do so.

These are the biggest issues that immediately leap out at me. I've got to get ready for work now, so I don't have a great deal of time to go through in detail on others. All the best,

[Mr Walker]

Basically this argument cannot be resolved. Im am a scientific rationalist. i accept, with some of its self admitted flaws, modern evolutionary theory and dating measures. There is no comparison for the scientific evidence for creationism when set side by side with that for evolution.

Mankind has a demonstrably longer tmime line than that outlined in the bible.

i dont think modern believers should be arguing for scientific proof of creation.

BUT, and its a hell of a big but, I know god exists. i have seen his powers first hand. I know he is capable, physically, of manipulating matter and energy at will. Thus if he willed it he could create the earth and humans. He certainly can recreate and resurrect them in body and intelligence/soul.

So, knowing this, I am aware that god could have created the earth as bilically outlined, and at the same time left whatever fossils carbon dating traces etc he wanted to.

Thus for me the issue is not as crucial. I can absolutely acknowledge gods existence and his ability to create us. Science and evolution does not threaten my relationship with god one bit.

It is a lot harder for people who believe in faith, but i think gods real challenge to them is to believe in him through absolute faith, not engage in a fruitless and unwinnable debate about the evidence for creation vs that for evolution. IT is really irrelevant to the existence and nature of god, and especially to his relationship with any human being.

If you need to be convinced by the evidence then you have, in a way, lost the battle for faith.

I was never able to believe, in faith; and perhaps thats why i am one of those people god came to in more physical form. Perhaps it was important to him , or for me, to know that god existed for some reason.

Ihave no idea yet what that reason is although i hope one day to find out.

Edited October 3, 2008 by Mr Walker

[The Puzzler]

I'm in no way a Creationist but as for the dinosaurs I'm not exactly positive in my mind that they went extinct millions of years ago either especially when faced with all the dinosaur pictures and representations shown on different websites.

This site is good and has many pictures of dinosaur related items, one of the most intriguing is this picture which comes from a huge mosiac showing Ethiopians chasing what appears to be a dinosaur called a Krokodilopardalis, translated Crocodile-Leopard:

http://www.genesispark.org/genpark/ancient/ancient.htm

Edited because I forgot the link.

Edited October 3, 2008 by The Puzzler

[TheKnight]

Radiometric age dating has revealed that the Earth is around 4.54 billion years old.

In the Bible, however, If we go back only 6000 years, we come to the time of Creation, and Adam and Eve (4004 BC). Luke, evangelist and historian, records Adam as the first man (Luke 3:38).

The earth is about 6000 years old. Let God's people rejoice in Him who made them! (Psalm 149:2)

Richard Dawkins showed that the mistaken thinking of creationists is the same as mistaking the distance between New York and San Francisco to be 21 feet.

It would be natural to assume, if you were a creationist, that dinosaurs were also created 6000 years ago. However, dinosaur fossils are at least 65 million years old.

I, personally, believe in a literal view of the Creation story in Genesis. However, I also admit that the evidence points to evolution. In fact, I would expect that considering. A scientist may look at the age of the Earth and say that it is 4 billion years old. I still believe that it is 6000. In my opinion the two sides don't contradict.

[IamsSon]

Radiometric age dating has revealed that the Earth is around 4.54 billion years old.

In the Bible, however, If we go back only 6000 years, we come to the time of Creation, and Adam and Eve (4004 BC). Luke, evangelist and historian, records Adam as the first man (Luke 3:38).

The earth is about 6000 years old. Let God's people rejoice in Him who made them! (Psalm 149:2)

Richard Dawkins showed that the mistaken thinking of creationists is the same as mistaking the distance between New York and San Francisco to be 21 feet.

It would be natural to assume, if you were a creationist, that dinosaurs were also created 6000 years ago. However, dinosaur fossils are at least 65 million years old.

While I don't believe that the Creation account in the beginning chapters of Genesis is meant to be a scientific treatise on how God created the universe, I believe it does recount in a very simplistic, stylized, non-scientific way what happened. However, there is no concrete Biblical support for the Earth's age, be it, 300 Trillion, 4.5 billion, 250,000, or 6,000 years, so the actual age of the Earth is not really important to whether one accepts the account or not.

Edited October 3, 2008 by IamsSon

[1.618]

I'm in no way a Creationist but as for the dinosaurs I'm not exactly positive in my mind that they went extinct millions of years ago either especially when faced with all the dinosaur pictures and representations shown on different websites.

This site is good and has many pictures of dinosaur related items, one of the most intriguing is this picture which comes from a huge mosiac showing Ethiopians chasing what appears to be a dinosaur called a Krokodilopardalis, translated Crocodile-Leopard:

http://www.genesispark.org/genpark/ancient/ancient.htm

Edited because I forgot the link.

Interesting site Puzzler. However, i think it's worth posting the whole picture...

[SQLserver]

I'm in no way a Creationist but as for the dinosaurs I'm not exactly positive in my mind that they went extinct millions of years ago either especially when faced with all the dinosaur pictures and representations shown on different websites.

This site is good and has many pictures of dinosaur related items, one of the most intriguing is this picture which comes from a huge mosiac showing Ethiopians chasing what appears to be a dinosaur called a Krokodilopardalis, translated Crocodile-Leopard:

http://www.genesispark.org/genpark/ancient/ancient.htm

Edited because I forgot the link.

The entire link is mostly a mix of frauds, mistakes, and outright idiocracies.

This guy debunks it all:

http://greatdinosaurmystery.blogetery.com/...f-genesis-park/

http://greatdinosaurmystery.blogetery.com/...is-park-part-2/

http://greatdinosaurmystery.blogetery.com/...is-park-part-3/

http://greatdinosaurmystery.blogetery.com/...is-park-part-4/

http://greatdinosaurmystery.blogetery.com/...is-park-part-5/

http://greatdinosaurmystery.blogetery.com/...is-park-part-6/

http://greatdinosaurmystery.blogetery.com/...is-park-part-7/

http://greatdinosaurmystery.blogetery.com/...is-park-part-8/

http://greatdinosaurmystery.blogetery.com/...is-park-part-9/

http://greatdinosaurmystery.blogetery.com/...s-park-part-10/

http://greatdinosaurmystery.blogetery.com/...s-park-part-11/

http://greatdinosaurmystery.blogetery.com/...s-park-part-12/

http://greatdinosaurmystery.blogetery.com/...s-park-part-13/

(specifically 6-10, I think)

He goes through the entire site in other posts.

See this, too:

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH712.html

What can we learn? Creationists are continually going to ridiculous extremes to lie, cheat, and steal their way into your brain.

They've come from politics and theology, and think they can use their same old lies, misinformation, and propaganda in Science.

Cheers,

SQLserver

[IamsSon]

What can we learn? Creationists are continually going to ridiculous extremes to lie, cheat, and steal their way into your brain.

They've come from politics and theology, and think they can use their same old lies, misinformation, and propaganda in Science.

Cheers,

SQLserver

Really? We can learn that about ALL Creationists from this site?

I think I detect a bit of bias on your part.

Edited October 3, 2008 by IamsSon

[Tiggs]

The earth is about 6000 years old. Let God's people rejoice in Him who made them! (Psalm 149:2)

In the interest of fairness, Ziggy - I think I should mention that that quote's a little misleading. It looks like you're quoting Psalm 149 as saying that the Earth is six thousand years old, when psalm 149 reads:

1 Praise the LORD!

Sing to the LORD a new song,

And His praise in the assembly of saints.

2 Let Israel rejoice in their Maker;

Let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.

3 Let them praise His name with the dance;

Let them sing praises to Him with the timbrel and harp.

4 For the LORD takes pleasure in His people;

He will beautify the humble with salvation.

No mention of 6000 years there. The number 6000, I believe, comes from the biblical genealogy.

[Copasetic]

In the interest of fairness, Ziggy - I think I should mention that that quote's a little misleading. It looks like you're quoting Psalm 149 as saying that the Earth is six thousand years old, when psalm 149 reads:

1 Praise the LORD!

Sing to the LORD a new song,

And His praise in the assembly of saints.

2 Let Israel rejoice in their Maker;

Let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.

3 Let them praise His name with the dance;

Let them sing praises to Him with the timbrel and harp.

4 For the LORD takes pleasure in His people;

He will beautify the humble with salvation.

No mention of 6000 years there. The number 6000, I believe, comes from the biblical genealogy.

Bishop Usher I believe was the first to 'extrapolate' this number from the genealogies, not a very accurate way to do things -To be sure.

[Doug1029]

I'm in no way a Creationist but as for the dinosaurs I'm not exactly positive in my mind that they went extinct millions of years ago either especially when faced with all the dinosaur pictures and representations shown on different websites.

This site is good and has many pictures of dinosaur related items, one of the most intriguing is this picture which comes from a huge mosiac showing Ethiopians chasing what appears to be a dinosaur called a Krokodilopardalis, translated Crocodile-Leopard:

http://www.genesispark.org/genpark/ancient/ancient.htm

Edited because I forgot the link.

Dinosaurs still survive - in the form of birds.

Somewhere I read that dinosaur fossils have been found in a paleo-gulley ABOVE the KT boundary. The researcher was unsure whether this meant that dinosaurs survived into the Tertiary, or if the fossils he was looking at had been redeposited.

Doug

[Copasetic]

I'm in no way a Creationist but as for the dinosaurs I'm not exactly positive in my mind that they went extinct millions of years ago either especially when faced with all the dinosaur pictures and representations shown on different websites.

This site is good and has many pictures of dinosaur related items, one of the most intriguing is this picture which comes from a huge mosiac showing Ethiopians chasing what appears to be a dinosaur called a Krokodilopardalis, translated Crocodile-Leopard:

http://www.genesispark.org/genpark/ancient/ancient.htm

Edited because I forgot the link.

If you look at the other animals and there is some ambiguity in them as well, I think the "dinosaur" looks an awful lot like a Nile Monitor rather than a dinosaur. The legs appear to come out from the side, which indicates a lizard -Not the way that most dinosaurs carried themselves.

Its also interesting to note who this was done by. I believe I read somewhere the mosaic was done by a Greek, which would mean it was someone not as familiar with the local fauna.

[Doug1029]

Bishop Usher I believe was the first to 'extrapolate' this number from the genealogies, not a very accurate way to do things -To be sure.

I tried to reproduce Bishop Usher's figures. There are some unknowns and guess-work involved. The Bible doesn't give the exact age of every generation. So even this figure is only a rough guess.

Doug

[Copasetic]

I tried to reproduce Bishop Usher's figures. There are some unknowns and guess-work involved. The Bible doesn't give the exact age of every generation. So even this figure is only a rough guess.

Doug

I never expected less. The good Bishops works were doomed from the start, in my opinion. The bible was never meant to convey such things and trying to force together extrapolations like this is a bit slippery-slope.

[SQLserver]

Really? We can learn that about ALL Creationists from this site?

I think I detect a bit of bias on your part.

Sorry, IamsSon. By Creationists I meant "Creation Science followers".

Obviously, there are many Creationists out there who are just misguided, and don't fully understand Evolution.

These people don't bother me too much. The "Creation Science" and the "Intelligent Design Science" people(they are the SAME people) both keep lying, lying, lying, lying, lying, misinforming, and lying.

There is no way one can believe in the field of "Creation Science" without believing in utter falsehoods.

And this isn't my opinion, IamsSon, it is fact. It is a fact that Creation Science, such as that promoted by the Discovery Institute and Answers In Genesis, is based on completely and absurdly wrong lies, misinformation, and frauds. These people continually cite the same stuff over, over, over and over.

"Creation Science" is the main reason Creationism has become the laughing stock of the entire world. It's a joke.

I would say: "Who do they think they are kidding?" but the sad thing is, they've said a lie loud enough and often enough, and it's become true in a scary number of minds.

Cheers,

SQLserver

[Beckys_Mom]

Really? We can learn that about ALL Creationists from this site?

I think I detect a bit of bias on your part.

No more baised than you or I LOL....everyone is to a certain degree!!

*waves at Joe*

[IamsSon]

No more baised than you or I LOL....everyone is to a certain degree!!

*waves at Joe*

GERI!!!!!

[danielost]

Radiometric age dating has revealed that the Earth is around 4.54 billion years old.

In the Bible, however, If we go back only 6000 years, we come to the time of Creation, and Adam and Eve (4004 BC). Luke, evangelist and historian, records Adam as the first man (Luke 3:38).

The earth is about 6000 years old. Let God's people rejoice in Him who made them! (Psalm 149:2)

Richard Dawkins showed that the mistaken thinking of creationists is the same as mistaking the distance between New York and San Francisco to be 21 feet.

It would be natural to assume, if you were a creationist, that dinosaurs were also created 6000 years ago. However, dinosaur fossils are at least 65 million years old.

According to the bible the Earth is 13,000 years old. According to science civilization is 10,000 years old. Perhaps the people who wrote the bible didn't think that the Earth started until civ. did.

[danielost]

According to science how old is Earth.

Now how old is Earth from Pluto.

Now how old is Earth from Jupiter.

Now how old is Earth from oh say a planet with a 1000 Earth year orbit.

When the bible says it took 7 days for God to create Earth are we talking our days or his days. According to the bible 1 god day is equal to 1000 Earth years.

While we are on the topic how old is Earth according to time by bacteria.

Time does not exist because it is relitive to the person or creature that we are talking about and where they live.

[Beckys_Mom]

GERI!!!!!

Hows it been Joe...long time no gossip..talk lol

On topic...hmmm ok ehhhhhhhh....*coughs*

[danielost]

One other thing to think about a lunar year is about 28 Earth days.

[churchanddestroy]

One other thing to think about a lunar year is about 28 Earth days.

You mean a lunar month, right?

[danielost]

You mean a lunar month, right?

No a year is what it take for a body to complete one orbit around it's host body. The moon orbits the Earth.

[churchanddestroy]

No a year is what it take for a body to complete one orbit around it's host body. The moon orbits the Earth.

Oh ok, but with that little tidbit, from a person standing on the moon, one year by there standards is 28 days. But the lunar cycle on earth, which takes 28 days works out to a lunar month, not a lunar year. So unless the point you're trying to make involves people writing the Bible on the moon, I don't see the relevance of talking about the lunar cycle here. Yes, the Semitic peoples calendar was based on the moon, but they broke their months down by observing the lunar cycle. When one cycle was complete, one month was over.