Obama NOT anti-war

[MasterPo]

Bush hasn't written the Guides yet.

The [sarcastic] point was how can anyone say "mistakes" when there is no standard, no guide, no proven procedure or "best practices" for how to do these things in the first place?

Everything is always clearer the day after.

[danielost]

The [sarcastic] point was how can anyone say "mistakes" when there is no standard, no guide, no proven procedure or "best practices" for how to do these things in the first place?

Everything is always clearer the day after.

I am going by a statement made by Patton. He didn't like to pay for the same real estate twice. When asked if he wanted to withdraw and regroup. Of course this was in the movie and I don't know if he really said it.

Edited October 13, 2008 by danielost

[MasterPo]

I am going by a statement made by Patton. He didn't like to pay for the same real estate twice. When asked if he wanted to withdraw and regroup. Of course this was in the movie and I don't know if he really said it.

That one I will agree with you but will say that pretty much since day-1 President Bush has been under pressure to get out of Iraq ASAP. But when troops are withdrawn and it doesn't go well he gets slammed too.

[danielost]

That one I will agree with you but will say that pretty much since day-1 President Bush has been under pressure to get out of Iraq ASAP. But when troops are withdrawn and it doesn't go well he gets slammed too.

I know catch 22 thingy there. But he is the one in command of the military not the congress. As his father said the buck stops here.

Edited October 13, 2008 by danielost

[Fluffybunny]

Don't even think of trying to go there with me! Of anyone on these forums I have been the the #1 supporter and lover of America and the American way of life against all the others here rushing headlong with glee to toss her under the bus!! I have been the #1 support of the war on terror, the war in Iraq, and the Bush Doctrine here. No one else! So get off your high horse, the thin air is making your dizzy.

I can give you hundreds of examples of killing the opposition stops future attacks.

Can you show me just 1 example of how building schools or hospitals or industry has stopped an aggressor?

Number one? Was there a vote? Did you make a banner and pass out bumper stickers?

Please. Stop, Its silly.

I love how the number one supporters of the war are somehow safe and comfortable at home behind a keyboard claiming their valor. There are a couple of you here that are like that. You are the number one fans of a war you risk nothing at, committed nothing to, and know little about. Just a lot of talk. A real number one fan of the fight on terror? Do you want to know what he looks like?

His name is Cody, and he volunteered when he was 18 years old to risk his life because he felt it was the right thing to do, and I am proud of him for doing it. The same age I was when I enlisted. So while you sit there safe and comfy behind your keyboard with your inflated sense of pride claiming to be the number one fan of the war in iraq while my kid(and a hundred and seventy five thousand others) is risking his life every minute of every day there as an 11B infantry soldier, well, I am sure you can understand where I am coming from when I tell you that you are completely confused as to who is number one.

If you think you are number the one American for getting lazy behind your keyboard while our kids are getting killed and injured, well, you are beyond even reasoning with. If you think you have a better idea of what is going on in war than those that are there, have been there, and have written the definitive book on the matter, then you are beyond reason. Apparently based on your previous posts, you are beyond reasoning with.

I hate to break it to you, but waving a flag, and watching fox news does not make you an American. Being ignorant of the full story makes you a liability. Your lack of experience, lack of knowledge are lack of willingness to even learn that there may be more to the story than you can imagine(the US Army admits that much, but you dont) is what makes me wonder what the hell I fought for.

Number one. You should be ashamed of yourself for claiming such a thing.

[Fluffybunny]

So 'anyone who disagrees with Fluffybunny' is clueless?

Calling people 'clueless' and telling them to 'take a hike' violates Forum Rules:

3f. Abusive behaviour: Do not be rude, insulting, offensive, snide, obnoxious or abusive towards other members.

If you can't follow the rules of a Forum you moderate,how can you expect anyone to believe what you have to say about Iraq?

What's next? Are you going to say 'drop it' or something similar to shut down discussion of a topic you don't happen to agree with?

Abusive?

In this case, yes he was clueless. Look it up in the dictionary, it fits. It was appropriate. Thanks for cutting and pasting the rules though. I know how much you love to cut and paste things. Your Ctrl-c/Ctrl-v skills are second to none and I will have to give you top marks for that over your posting career here.

Ahh the brethren of the number one supporters of the war defending each other. master po claims to be the number one supporter and lover of America, where does that put you supercar? I think he is challenging you for superiority. You two may end up having to duke it out and figure out who is captain America. Can there be two Captain Americas? I dont know. There sure cant be two #1 lovers of America and the war in Iraq. You two had better work that out somehow. Maybe a #1 and a #1.1

I wont even try to help you figure out which of the two of you is the better American... I mean I dont even watch fox news. I was just a lowly soldier medic who proudly served his country just like you guys did right? You guys served your country didnt you? right?

[InHuman]

k..

Good.

*naps*

[Odin11]

The democrats are not anti-war. They are anti-bush willing to lose the war to make the repubs. and Bush look bad. They may also be anti-american at least some of those office seem to be.

I’m so sick of hearing people say that Obama and the democrats are going to lose the war. Guess what! We already did. The second you drop a bomb or send in troops you lose. There is no wining when it comes to war. . I think people need to learn that the outcome is not worth the means.

Do you think Bush cares about the troops? Do you think he cares that thousands have died because of his decisions? No he does not, to him, all they are, are numbers. He forgets the most important number: one. If the army cries victory and says that only 500 have died, do you think he will temper his celebration with the sorrow for each, one alone adding weight to his heart? No, he has already shown that not to be true. Only when he feels the sorrow, will he understand the full weight of those choices, not just on the country, but on the one, or ten, or five hundred, who will die or be maimed. A president, who feels the pain of every man’s wounds, or the sorrow in every destitute parent’s soul, is one who will place country and community above self. Absent that empathy, any president, will prove to be no more than a tyrant. Bush holds no such cares in his heart. All he cares about is his own false pride.

[SoulMatrix]

"Then you should also be aware that for every innocent person that we kill, or is killed indirectly because of our actions, another terrorist(if not many many more) is born. There is a big difference fighting soldiers in the countryside as we are in Afghanistan, and what is going on in iraq.

There are many ways to stop a terrorist. not all of them require a 500 pound bomb, but many times people with no military experience think it does...There are many tools available to us."

Agree with you there Fluffybunny. When theres terrorists lodging in mosques and lil huts in villages that have innocent families and perhaps bystanders, would it be wise to go ahead and initiate or commence a bombing attack just on that specific mosque or place where they are in? NO. The facts and reports are out there people. Innocent families and children have been caught in the line of fire or bombing(if you will) and killed just cause there is a terrorist around. And don't try to counter my argument by saying "Are you insulting our brave, sacrificial and honorable young men and women who are fighting over there for you?" How would you feel if an invading army was in your country and you are an innocent citizen who lives in an neighborhood with no knowledge of terrorists living in the same neighborhood but know all to well that you can be dead due to a bombing raid? But thats just it. These Terrorists don't care if their amongst the masses. Still though, I don't think you would feel quite comfortable where ever you are when these terrorists are present. None the less have them put ur life in jeopardy knowing full well that your life will be taken out along with them.

"If the war in Iraq is creating thousands of new terrorists then why haven't there been thousands of new terror attacks on the United States?"

What are you smoking dude? Just because terrorists are growing in numbers in Iraq doesn't mean there's going to be an attack on US Soil everytime a Terrorist is born.

Anyhow. Might I also add that perhaps Supercar and MasterPo are Pro-Bush/Fox/Sean Hannity. Shows what they know. I mean Ya. I would be ignorant too if I worshipped All the Fox Reporters and be so gullible as to believe everything they say and report. Not even knowing the full story or looking at it in a different perspective as Fluffybunny has due to actually being over there. And I respect you Fluffybunny and admire your bravery, sacrifice, courage for what you did for our country and shedding light on this war to those who merely don't have a clue. For they are as you said "just sitting behind their keyboard watching FOX and waving the American Flag pretending they know the truth".

[InHuman]

If anyones anti-american its those people who are putting the troops in unesscary danger and putting their nation in a lower, and more dangerous, standing...

[SoulMatrix]

If anyones anti-american its those people who are putting the troops in unesscary danger and putting their nation in a lower, and more dangerous, standing...

Amen to that.

[SoulMatrix]

I’m so sick of hearing people say that Obama and the democrats are going to lose the war. Guess what! We already did. The second you drop a bomb or send in troops you lose. There is no wining when it comes to war. . I think people need to learn that the outcome is not worth the means.

Do you think Bush cares about the troops? Do you think he cares that thousands have died because of his decisions? No he does not, to him, all they are, are numbers. He forgets the most important number: one. If the army cries victory and says that only 500 have died, do you think he will temper his celebration with the sorrow for each, one alone adding weight to his heart? No, he has already shown that not to be true. Only when he feels the sorrow, will he understand the full weight of those choices, not just on the country, but on the one, or ten, or five hundred, who will die or be maimed. A president, who feels the pain of every man’s wounds, or the sorrow in every destitute parent’s soul, is one who will place country and community above self. Absent that empathy, any president, will prove to be no more than a tyrant. Bush holds no such cares in his heart. All he cares about is his own false pride.

Agree. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!! For pointing all that out.

Try telling this to all those bush supporters and who think Bush is something Big and a great president.

As the saying goes "He has blood on his hands now"

[MasterPo]

I hate to break it to you, but waving a flag, and watching fox news does not make you an American. Being ignorant of the full story makes you a liability. Your lack of experience, lack of knowledge are lack of willingness to even learn that there may be more to the story than you can imagine(the US Army admits that much, but you dont) is what makes me wonder what the hell I fought for.

Number one. You should be ashamed of yourself for claiming such a thing.

If I were 20 years younger and in better shape I would have enlisted myself on 9/12/01.

Don't go beating your chest and claiming holyer-than-thou at me!

And don't keep trying to flamebait me into saying something that will give you a lame reason to ban me - that's a low tactic to try to silence someone who disagrees with you. :angry2:

[InHuman]

^^^

OMg, theres a conspiracy to GET YOU!

[Fluffybunny]

If I were 20 years younger and in better shape I would have enlisted myself on 9/12/01.

Don't go beating your chest and claiming holyer-than-thou at me!

And don't keep trying to flamebait me into saying something that will give you a lame reason to ban me - that's a low tactic to try to silence someone who disagrees with you. :angry2:

There is no tactic to silence you, just simply to point out how silly your rhetoric is.

You dont find it funny and silly when some rude guy spouts right wing rhetortic about being the number one American and supporter of the war while nearly 200,000 kids are actually risking their asses, in the desert, miserable, getting shot at? Dont you think that maybe the best ranking you could hope for is...200,001?

I for one served my country, volunteered for combat duty as a Medic in the Army, was wounded in combat and have been decorated well, and I would NEVER so much as claim such a thing, because there are people in the military that have served and are serving now that I would be proud to shine their boots they are so damn gungo hardcore soldiers and Americans.

I tire of all of the chest thumping, flag waving, fox news loving, george bush parroting "number one Americans" around here that go out of their way to talk big about their pride in their country at the expense of others(As you do, go back and read your own posts and how you treat others on the matter) yet have not risked a damn thing for the title of "number one American".

You have sat around here being rude to people left right and center who have a differing opinion than you do from places all over the world who have experiences far removed from your own, and you have tried to speak like you are the king of the hill "number one American" about this war when it is painfully obvious you have nothing invested in it, nor any knowledge of it other than that of your local right wing pundit. You cant even admit to the same knowledge that the U.S. Army has admitted to and made public(And changed their tactics to adjust for), rather you prefer to keep saying the same old stuff that the people who didnt know anything at the start of the war were saying that got us into the mess we are in. You are too stubborn to admit that there are other people around that know more than you simply because their opinion differs from yours; exactly the same reason we are taking 6 years(or more) to do a war that could have been completed in a year had the right people been listened to, the people who brought up all the problems that we are experiencing right now, the problems that were dismissed by Cheney and rumsfield with a wave of the hand...because they knew better...but hey...mission accomplished right?

You want to support the war? REALLY support the war. No lip service. Dont just talk about it, DO SOMETHING. There are kids over there that are miserable every damned day, hot, sweaty, tired, lonely, hungry and in fear of their lives. Do something to help them. There are kids that would love to have the simplest of care packages with some food, candy and baby wipes, so that they can get cleaned up when they dont have access to a shower. They are frigging miserable every day. I recall it well. They would rather have you write to them and tell them how proud you are of them and a few things to perk up their day and maybe go out of your way to find their favorite candy to send them rather than sitting about claiming status as number one American on this forum(I can assure you, I have met the boys and girls over there, you cant hold a candle to them, so the best thing that you or I can do is help the number one Americans that are risking their asses right now.)

I am taking care of the REAL number one Americans with time and effort and a bit of money, are you going to just continue to pound your chest and claim the title that isnt rightly yours, or are you going to do something REAL other than just talk about how great an American supporter you are?

[AROCES]

I’m so sick of hearing people say that Obama and the democrats are going to lose the war. Guess what! We already did. The second you drop a bomb or send in troops you lose. There is no wining when it comes to war. . I think people need to learn that the outcome is not worth the means.

So you suggesting next time we wait for the enemies to do the bombings and that's it, they lose?

[AROCES]

"Then you should also be aware that for every innocent person that we kill, or is killed indirectly because of our actions, another terrorist(if not many many more) is born. There is a big difference fighting soldiers in the countryside as we are in Afghanistan, and what is going on in iraq.

And what about those Iraqis that the terrorist kills, what does it produce?

[AROCES]

If anyones anti-american its those people who are putting the troops in unesscary danger and putting their nation in a lower, and more dangerous, standing...

You mean we should go back to how it was prior to 9/11?

Edited October 14, 2008 by AROCES

[Fluffybunny]

You mean we should go back to how it was prior to 9/11?

Using our incredible intelligence resources(unlike anything else in the world) to locate terrorist cells and deal with them on a small scale(covertly) and removing them as a threat before they become things like the full blown taliban(insert problem name here), rather than waiting and starting 2 wars on two fronts that are straining our Army to the breaking point and destroying us monetarily and in world standing???

Ummm, yeah...that would be nice.

When all of the wests intelligence agencies work together we do a damn good job of avoiding things before they happen. It happens all the time. Stirring up a hornets nest by starting wars when they arent necessary just complicates things...and it has come to blow up in our face and weaken our ability to defend ourselves. Sun Tzu knew better 2500 years ago, but the numbskulls in charge had something to prove.

The silliest part of this that some people are of the misconception that somehow every act of terrorism can be stopped with increasing acts of militarism...looking into the middle east and Israel we can see the diminishing returns on effort that happens there...why we think we are different, I will never know...

[AROCES]

Using our incredible intelligence resources(unlike anything else in the world) to locate terrorist cells and deal with them on a small scale(covertly) and removing them as a threat before they become things like the full blown taliban(insert problem name here), rather than waiting and starting 2 wars on two fronts that are straining our Army to the breaking point and destroying us monetarily and in world standing???

We have done that but they were taking over countries, that was our main concern and reason for using the military opiton.

Remember?????????

[Odin11]

So you suggesting next time we wait for the enemies to do the bombings and that's it, they lose?

Such an childish reply shows that you have no concept of universal principles, and that any answers I give to it will ether fall on deaf ears or not be understood. So I will not waste my time doing so.

Edited October 14, 2008 by Odin11

[ravergirl]

Such an childish reply shows that you have no concept of universal principles, and that any answers I give to it will ether fall on deaf ears or not be understood. So I will not waste my time doing so.

my ears aren't deaf. so please do enlighten. thanks

[Fluffybunny]

We have done that but they were taking over countries, that was our main concern and reason for using the military opiton.

Remember?????????

Who is "they" you refer to?

[The Silver Thong]

We have done that but they were taking over countries, that was our main concern and reason for using the military opiton.

Remember?????????

Ok the Taliban had control over Afganistan, who had control of Iaqi ? Oh wait the leader of Iraqi who achieved that position thanks to the U.S. So the U.S. supports terrorists only when convinient, how quaint.

Aroces and Masterpro in the ring to fight for #1 American status, fans in attendance 0.

Opps I think it was Supercar and Masterpro, eh who care's

[AROCES]

Ok the Taliban had control over Afganistan, who had control of Iaqi ? Oh wait the leader of Iraqi who achieved that position thanks to the U.S. So the U.S. supports terrorists only when convinient, how quaint.

And who is bombing the Iraqis now into submission?