Telekinesis: Fact or Fiction?

[bee]

Here's the quote again.....page 55 of this document....

http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/teleport.pdf

PK phenomenon was also explored in the Remote Viewing program. Col. J. B. Alexander (USA ret.)

credits professional aerospace engineer Jack Houck for “capturing PK phenomenon and transitioning it

into an observable form” (Houck, 1982, 1984a, b; Alexander et al., 1990; Alexander, 2003). During the

past three decades, Houck (along with Alexander) held a number of PK sessions, whereby attendees are

taught the PK induction process, and initiate their own PK events using various metal specimens (forks,

spoons, etc.). Individuals were able to completely bend or contort their metal specimens with no physical

force being applied whatsoever. Numerous government science advisors and senior military officials

took part in and/or witnessed these events, which took place at the Pentagon, at officers’ or scientists’

homes, and at one quarterly INSCOM retreat attended by the commanding general and a group of

colonels and generals commanding INSCOM units around the globe. Spontaneous deformation of the

metal specimens was observed at the PK session conducted during the INSCOM retreat, causing a great

deal of excitement among those present. Other notable trained observers were also present at this session,

and they critically reviewed the events.

Your idea of evidence and most skeptics is very, very different.

Soooooooo am I to take it that.......'numerous government science advisors'.......'senior military officials'

and the rest that is high-lighted above.....is not good enough for you...?

Your idea of evidence seems to be.....there isn't any, there isn't any, there isn't any....even when there is...

[AlexG]

Soooooooo am I to take it that.......'numerous government science advisors'.......'senior military officials'

and the rest that is high-lighted above.....is not good enough for you...?

No, not nearly good enough. It's as easy to fool 'senior military officials' as it is anyone else. They have no special expertise.

Statements by 'authorities' are not evidence.

That's the kind of 'evidence' that saucer devotees produce.

Edited October 28, 2008 by AlexG

[Ziggy Stardust]

http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/teleport.pdf

http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/index.php/t-142874.html

So....do you think that Kalugina had telekinesis ability?

Also....have you looked at the recently released (2004) military documents, about telekinesis, linked to above...?

Does that wipe the smile off your face?

The military has shown an interest in many paranormal phenomena, including remote viewing. Neither their experiments with RV or Telekinesis ever worked. Think about it; if they had, TK would be a known fact! If there actually was some decent documented evidence for the existence of TK, would we be having this argument? No. Face it, bee, you have no evidence, and you never will. You can't win. Ever. And I'm still smiling.

Edited October 28, 2008 by Ziggy Stardust

[crtDzyn]

As we are playing the age-game..I must inform you that I'm more than twice as old as you (if you ARE 26)....so when you are

as old mature as me...in 28 years time (get your calculators out boys and girls !!! ) you might have a leg to stand on...with this

age argument.....

In those extra years have you encountered concrete proof of TK, bee? Concrete, as in solid, unmovable, undeniable. It's there, it's not going anywhere. It can be replicated by following a specific method. A specific, repeatable method.

If TK is something that can truely be performed, would you not agree that it's execution follows a method? You know... so the person doing it knows what he/she is doing? So if this method can be repeated with consistent observable results you have proof. Is this something you don't understand yet or are you just too good for the scientific method? Your standards for proof are more lenient so you can accept TK as reasonable. It requires twisting logic and words. Then again... there's also the possibility that you are just not reasonable when it comes to exploring the possibility of TK and other elements of the unexplained......

Would you mind explaining which of these is closest to the truth, bee? Thanks in advance, it's much appreciated.

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

In those extra years have you encountered concrete proof of TK, bee? Concrete, as in solid, unmovable, undeniable. It's there, it's not going anywhere. It can be replicated by following a specific method. A specific, repeatable method.

If TK is something that can truely be performed, would you not agree that it's execution follows a method? You know... so the person doing it knows what he/she is doing? So if this method can be repeated with consistent observable results you have proof. Is this something you don't understand yet or are you just too good for the scientific method? Your standards for proof are more lenient so you can accept TK as reasonable. It requires twisting logic and words. Then again... there's also the possibility that you are just not reasonable when it comes to exploring the possibility of TK and other elements of the unexplained......

Would you mind explaining which of these is closest to the truth, bee? Thanks in advance, it's much appreciated.

Some people wish to believe in anything paranormal with very little to no proof. I have always wondered why they have that need to believe. Need to think there is more than regular, mundane life. Just doesn't make sense.

[bee]

http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/teleport.pdf

PK phenomenon was also explored in the Remote Viewing program. Col. J. B. Alexander (USA ret.)

credits professional aerospace engineer Jack Houck for “capturing PK phenomenon and transitioning it

into an observable form” (Houck, 1982, 1984a, b; Alexander et al., 1990; Alexander, 2003). During the

past three decades, Houck (along with Alexander) held a number of PK sessions, whereby attendees are

taught the PK induction process, and initiate their own PK events using various metal specimens (forks,

spoons, etc.). Individuals were able to completely bend or contort their metal specimens with no physical

force being applied whatsoever. Numerous government science advisors and senior military officials

took part in and/or witnessed these events, which took place at the Pentagon, at officers’ or scientists’

homes, and at one quarterly INSCOM retreat attended by the commanding general and a group of

colonels and generals commanding INSCOM units around the globe. Spontaneous deformation of the

metal specimens was observed at the PK session conducted during the INSCOM retreat, causing a great

deal of excitement among those present. Other notable trained observers were also present at this session,

and they critically reviewed the events.

It's as easy to fool 'senior military officials' as it is anyone else. They have no special expertise.

What about 'notable trained observers' ? Who 'critically reviewed the events.' ?

[bee]

The military has shown an interest in many paranormal phenomena, including remote viewing. Neither their experiments with RV or Telekinesis ever worked.

Think about it; if they had, TK would be a known fact!

Ever heard of 'classified' information.....you know......SECRET. Top Secret. Cosmic. ?

[bee]

scientific method?

From page 56 of the document linked to in my post a couple of posts ago.....

One of the more interesting examples of controlled experiments with Uri Geller was one in which he

was able to cause a part of a vanadium carbide crystal to vanish (Hasted et al., 1975). The crystal was

encapsulated so it could not be touched, and it was placed in such a way that it could not be switched with

another crystal by sleight of hand.

and

A more spectacular series of rigorously controlled (and repeatable!)

laboratory experiments occurred in the Peoples Republic of China (PRC). In September 1981, an

extraordinary paper was published in the PRC in the journal Ziran Zazhi (transl.: Nature Journal), and this

paper was entitled, “Some Experiments on the Transfer of Objects Performed by Unusual Abilities of the

Human Body” (Shuhuang et al., 1981). The paper reported that gifted children were able to cause the

apparent teleportation of small objects (radio micro-transmitters, photosensitive paper, mechanical

watches, horseflies, other insects, etc.) from one location to another (that was meters away) without them

ever touching the objects beforehand. The experiments were operated under exceptionally wellcontrolled

conditions (both blind and double-blind). The researchers involved included not only

observers from various PRC colleges and medical research institutes, but also representatives from the

PRC National Defense Science Commission. Because of the involvement of the latter, it was deemed

necessary that an unclassified Intelligence Information Report be prepared by the DIA (see Shuhuang et

al., 1981), which included a detailed English translation of the article.

[AlexG]

http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/teleport.pdf

What about 'notable trained observers' ? Who 'critically reviewed the events.' ?

What is a 'notable trained observer'? You not only invoke 'authority' as evidence, but anonymous second hand 'authority'.

What people say and think is not evidence. Opinions are not evidence. Stage magicians and illusionists have been fooling observers, even 'notable trained' ones for years.

[AlexG]

From page 56 of the document linked to in my post a couple of posts ago.....

One of the more interesting examples of controlled experiments with Uri Geller was one in which he

was able to cause a part of a vanadium carbide crystal to vanish (Hasted et al., 1975). The crystal was

encapsulated so it could not be touched, and it was placed in such a way that it could not be switched with

another crystal by sleight of hand.

This has what to do with scientific method? The word 'experiment'? EVERYTHING Uri Geller has done was debunked years ago by James Randi. And to cite Hasted talking about Geller is to cite the debunked talking about the debunked.

Please look up the scientific definition of the word 'evidence'.

[eqgumby]

Here's the quote again.....page 55 of this document....

http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/teleport.pdf

Soooooooo am I to take it that.......'numerous government science advisors'.......'senior military officials'

and the rest that is high-lighted above.....is not good enough for you...?

Your idea of evidence seems to be.....there isn't any, there isn't any, there isn't any....even when there is...

The mere fact that they mention that some of this was done "at their homes" casts a shadow.

Senior military officials and scientists don't hold controlled experiments at the kitchen table.

I'm still waiting for a real piece of proof, not documents citing "senior military officials", whatever that means.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Ever heard of 'classified' information.....you know......SECRET. Top Secret. Cosmic. ?

Come on. What are you, 12 years old? This is REALITY we're living in here. Have you even considered just how bizarre a belief that the government secretly thinks that telekinesis exists but is withhelding that information, really is?

[oslove]

<font size='5' color='#800000'>Ziggy Stardust </font><font size='5'>vs</font> <font size='5' color='#800000'>Flame Dragon</font>

This is a formal 1 vs 1 debate, full details on how the debate system works can be found in our Debates FAQ. The debate will begin with an introductory opening post from each participant followed by <font color='#800000'>4</font> body posts and finally a conclusion.

<Br>The computer has randomly chosen <font color='#800000'>Flame Dragon</font> to post first.

<font color='#800000'>Ziggy Stardust</font> is arguing in favour of Fiction

<Br><font color='#800000'>Flame Dragon</font> is arguing in favour of Fact

Once the debate is complete the thread will be open to member comments.

I have not read any offer by the proponent of telekinesis being fact to lead the opponent to a person who does perform telekinesis.

In the context of Ouija, there are reports that the planchette does move without contacts from any person.

But it is not movement by mind power from any of the Ouija participants, but movement by the spirit(s) summoned by the participants through the Ouija exercise.

Notice that I say there are reports.

If anyone has seen such events of Ouija planchette moving without any contact from humans, though it is not human telekinesis but 'spirit-kinesis', then I am inviting him to tell me where to go to witness such a kind of phenomenon.

Back to the debate.

Since the proponent did not if I am not mistaken offer to bring the opponent to witness a living person doing telekinesis, then the debate did not establish any fact, no matter how many tons of records the proponent musters.

About Uri Geller, how come he is not going all over the world and giving demonstration of his telekinetic power, and all the time, and giving free admission at least at times, has the man retired, or he is no longer in demand because everyone knows that his act is not genuine.

My one test for all such paranormal abilities is how it should be helpful to everyday life, instead of just amusment before an audience.

Take Uri Geller's alleged power to move keys and spoons by mind power, he can be very useful if you drop your car keys in any hole which you can't reach with your hand and fingers; if you have Geller with you, that should be no problem.

Oslove

[The One Who Is]

Soooooooo am I to take it that.......'numerous government science advisors'.......'senior military officials'

and the rest that is high-lighted above.....is not good enough for you...?

Your idea of evidence seems to be.....there isn't any, there isn't any, there isn't any....even when there is...

Oh, I did read that part. That quote means almost nothing from a scientific perspective. There is no data to back it up, almost none of the individuals referenced are named, it seems the experiment wasn't properly controlled: "at officers’ or scientists’ homes," for the love of common sense [or lack of it]... You can't say that "these people wouldn't be named because it was top secret," because that is simply not that case, as they do refer to these individual in a way that they could be tracked down, such as "the commanding general," and they did release the papers. A real scientific paper would have referred to him by both name and title. What "notable trained observers"? Apparently they weren't "notable" enough, or they would have been noted.

Or, perhaps the paper is totally scientific, with just a few slips where they threw something in that didn't really belong. Maybe this isn't the part of the paper that's intended to be taken as absolute and literal fact. Maybe it's more anecdotal, and we should be paying more attention to the parts in the conclusion, where the researchers admit that all this is not even past the hypothesis stage. Do you really think they would have come to that resolution if there were some hard evidence?

Sure, the government has researched telekinesis. That doesn't make telekinesis a fact of life [rather the opposite, if you look at most government research ]. All it proves is that the government thought it was worth investigating. If the government had actually developed it, the general public would have done it first. Why? Well, you can't look at this as being the same as technology. It's not a thing which can be "hushed up." If this really is an ability inherent to random people across the globe, they would have proved it to the world before they proved it to the government, simply because of humankind's general desire to be noticed.

And yes, I do mean "proved it." As in proved it. Not as in "ahahaha, I can bend spoons, come see my show." Because even I can do that. And I assure you, I have no telekinetic ability whatsoever.

[The One Who Is]

I don't think you have quite understood your 'favourite parts'.

Notice that the first quote you use says.....explored in this chapter.....the chapter refered to is this.....

4.0 e-TELEPORTATION…...……...……..……………………………………………………………...50

4.1 Extra Space Dimensions and Parallel Universes/Spaces….……………………………………...50

4.2 Vacuum Hole Teleportation………………………………………………………………………52

4.3 Conclusion and Recommendations…………………………………………………………..…...53

The second quote that you use is specifically refering to section 5.1.1.

I have no idea how to respond to this. Let's take it step by step.

My first quote is taken from the conclusion of the fourth chapter. It's meant to refer to the fourth chapter. I have no idea why you think this would be misleading.

My second quote was taken from the conclusion of the fifth chapter. It was meant to refer to the fifth chapter. Again, I have no idea why you would think this was misleading.

The quotes weren't meant to be read together as a single statement of fact [for crying out loud, if I were trying to falsify evidence, I would have enclosed it in the same set of quote tags]. They were simply meant to refer to the fact that the researchers admitted that their research was by no means even near complete, not even at the theoretical stage yet. Why don't you address that, instead of asking me why a quote from the conclusion of chapter four was meant to apply to chapter four?

Edited just in case I misunderstood you. If you're asking me why I pulled a quote from a section labeled "Teleportation," simple. It's a form of telekinesis. And it just so happens to be exactly what the entire paper you cite was addressing. If that's what you were mentioning, I see even less of a problem.

Edited October 29, 2008 by The One Who Is

[xCrimsonx]

*slides in with pom poms* "Go Ziggy Go Dragon" *slides back out*

Forgive me, lol

[Moonie2012]

Ziggy won this debate hands down, no contest.

Regardless of bias, he simply had the better argument.

[bee]

Come on. What are you, 12 years old? This is REALITY we're living in here. Have you even considered just how bizarre a belief that the government secretly thinks that telekinesis exists but is withhelding that information, really is?

Naughty naughty....no need to get insulting.

It's quite sweet that you don't think that the government/security forces would with-hold

....classify....information about telekinesis/teleportation and related subjects...

But a little bizarre.....

[bee]

http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/teleport.pdf

The mere fact that they mention that some of this was done "at their homes" casts a shadow.

Senior military officials and scientists don't hold controlled experiments at the kitchen table.

from the above link to THE document....

PK phenomenon was also explored in the Remote Viewing program. Col. J. B. Alexander (USA ret.)

credits professional aerospace engineer Jack Houck for “capturing PK phenomenon and transitioning it

into an observable form” (Houck, 1982, 1984a, b; Alexander et al., 1990; Alexander, 2003). During the

past three decades, Houck (along with Alexander) held a number of PK sessions, whereby attendees are

taught the PK induction process, and initiate their own PK events using various metal specimens (forks,

spoons, etc.). Individuals were able to completely bend or contort their metal specimens with no physical

force being applied whatsoever. Numerous government science advisors and senior military officials

took part in and/or witnessed these events, which took place at the Pentagon, at officers’ or scientists’

homes, and at one quarterly INSCOM retreat attended by the commanding general and a group of

colonels and generals commanding INSCOM units around the globe. Spontaneous deformation of the

metal specimens was observed at the PK session conducted during the INSCOM retreat, causing a great

deal of excitement among those present. Other notable trained observers were also present at this session,

and they critically reviewed the events.

See bolded above.....a little more than 'experiments at a kitchen table'.

The Pentagon and an INSCOM retreat with high-ranking personel.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States...ecurity_Command

The United States Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM), a direct reporting unit that conducts intelligence, security, and information operations for military commanders and national decision makers. INSCOM is both an organization within the United States Army and the National Security Agency, the nation's unified Signals Intelligence Organization. Within the National Security Agency, INSCOM and its counterparts in the Navy and Air Force are known as Central Security Service. INSCOM is headquartered at Fort Belvoir, Virginia.

[bee]

And yes, I do mean "proved it." As in proved it. Not as in "ahahaha, I can bend spoons, come see my show." Because even I can do that. And I assure you, I have no telekinetic ability whatsoever.

It's easy, too easy, for serial-debunkers to focus on the spoon bending.....

But that's not all Uri Geller could do....

http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/teleport.pdf

One of the more interesting examples of controlled experiments with Uri Geller was one in which he

was able to cause a part of a vanadium carbide crystal to vanish (Hasted et al., 1975). The crystal was

encapsulated so it could not be touched, and it was placed in such a way that it could not be switched with

another crystal by sleight of hand.

[The One Who Is]

It's easy, too easy, for serial-debunkers to focus on the spoon bending.....

Because it's far too often the evidence presented.

But that's not all Uri Geller could do....

The article is actually wrong in this case, which calls it even more into question. Even Uri Geller himself only claimed to have teleported half of the crystal.

Let's take a closer look at this "controlled experiment." And I won't even get into picking at how the article refuses to mention useful information like names and data instead of hypotheses. All emphases are mine.

First, it only took place one time. That gives one data point to study. Any real researcher would laugh at using this for anything more than a basis for conducting numerous other experiments under exactly the same conditions to see if the results could be duplicated.

In such research an attitude of mutual trust and confidence is needed; we should not treat the person with psychokinetic powers as an 'object' to be observed with suspicion. Rather, as indicated earlier, we have to look on him as one who is working with us. Consider how difficult it would be to do a physical experiment, if each person were constantly watching his colleagues to be sure that they did not trick him. How, then, are we to avoid the possibility of being tricked? It should be possible to design experimental arrangements which are beyond any reasonable possibility of trickery, and which magicians will generally acknowledge to be so. In the first stages of our work we did in fact present Mr Geller with several such arrangements, but these proved to be aesthetically unappealing to him.

So, apparently he couldn't work with certain of their "trick-proof" arrangements. Perhaps these were the actually trick-proof ones?

From our early failures, we learned that Mr Geller worked best when presented with many possible objects, all together on a metal surface; at least one of these objects might appeal to him sufficiently to stimulate his energies. In a later session, we had such a set-up, which included two small plastic capsules, each containing a thin disk of vanadium carbide single crystal. A clearly observable change in the disk within one of the capsules was brought about when Mr Geller held his hands near them.

Because this way he doesn't have to focus on one thing. If a particular object is resistant to his trickery, he can try another. And the lovely thing is, he doesn't even have to pick one beforehand. The vaunted "clearly observable change" is barelyeven discussed, much less claimed to be teleportation. It is mentioned that it "supposedly vanished." Back towards the beginning, I said there was only one instance of this experiment run. That's because I'm giving Geller credit for not even trying on the other crystal, due to aesthetic reasons or whatnot, as the article doesn't actually mention he did.

The actual article documenting the vanadium carbide "study," from Geller's own website

And my favorite lines, to keep with tradition:

It is clear both to us and to the referees used by Nature that this account does not amount to a rigorous loop-hole-free report on a subject historically shot through with loop-holes.

we realise that conditions such as we have described here are just those in which a conjuring trick may easily be carried out. We understand also that we are not conjuring experts, so that if there should be an intention to deceive, we may be as readily fooled as any person.

Edited several times for clarity.

Edited October 29, 2008 by The One Who Is

[Ziggy Stardust]

Naughty naughty....no need to get insulting.

It's quite sweet that you don't think that the government/security forces would with-hold

....classify....information about telekinesis/teleportation and related subjects...

But a little bizarre.....

So, you're saying that telekinesis does exist, but we don't know about it because the government is hiding it from us? And I'm the bizarre one?

If you believe in Uri Geller's powers, you obviously haven't seen this video. It marked the end of his career:

[bee]

The article is actually wrong in this case, which calls it even more into question. Even Uri Geller himself only claimed to have teleported half of the crystal.

Go tell the Pentagon and INSCOM that...... Tell them that you know better than them....that they

didn't witness the things that I've quoted earlier....perhaps they were hallucinating or telling fibs.

Or perhaps you are suggesting the whole document is untrue?

And I'm the bizarre one?

If you believe in Uri Geller's powers, you obviously haven't seen this video. It marked the end of his career:

Geller was not a performing monkey.....he was entitled to off days. And Randi who made it his mission, to

destroy Geller's work and reputation, has enjoyed a lot of fame (and money?) on the back of Geller.

In the 70s when Geller did his radio broadcasts in the UK.....all the people who phoned in to say that they

had experienced strange things....like clocks stopping/starting. Spoons and whatnot bending. They were

all lying, were they?

................................................................................

.......................

This could go on indefinitely.....I'm finished with this thread for now......but in conclusion I

will say.......................' ya, boo, sucks'......no that's not what I meant to say....

I will say.........'there's none so blind as those that will not see.'

And another quote.....from...http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/teleport.pdf

for you to attempt to discredit.....good luck.

During a talk that he gave at the U.S. Capitol building, Uri caused a spoon to curve

upward with no force applied, and then the spoon continued to bend after he put it back down and

continued with his talk (Alexander, 1996). Jack Houck continues doing extensive experimental work and

data collection on micro- and macro-PK phenomena. Scientifically controlled PK experiments at the

Princeton University Engineering Anomalies Research Laboratory were conducted by Robert Jahn (Dean

Emeritus of the School of Engineering), who reported that repeatedly consistent results in mentally

affecting material substances has been demonstrated in the lab (Jahn and Dunne, 1987). In the 1980s,

Jahn attended a meeting on the PK topic at the Naval Research Laboratory, and warned that foreign

adversaries could exploit micro- or macro-PK to induce U.S. military fighter pilots to lose control of their

aircraft and crash.

[Syaoransbear]

Geller was not a performing monkey.....he was entitled to off days. And Randi who made it his mission, to

destroy Geller's work and reputation, has enjoyed a lot of fame (and money?) on the back of Geller.

hahhhaaha oh my gosh this thread is so funny.

I think if you had any credibility at all, you just flushed it all down the toilet right here.

[The One Who Is]

Go tell the Pentagon and INSCOM that...... Tell them that you know better than them....that they

didn't witness the things that I've quoted earlier....perhaps they were hallucinating or telling fibs.

Well, you would think that the guy who allegedly did it would have known what he did. You don't believe him? Was he hallucinating or telling fibs? Downplaying his abilities? [Don't say that last one, we all know Geller doesn't do it]

I'd call up the Pentagon and INSCOM if I weren't entirely certain they wouldn't bother to confirm the blatantly obvious fact that the things stated in the reports to be hypothetical to the extreme were indeed hypothetical to the extreme.

Or perhaps you are suggesting the whole document is untrue?

Well, if we're still talking about the first "teleportation research" document, no I don't think it's untrue, slightly unscientific though, especially with the sources they give, but I suppose it was the best they could do. I agree with many of their conclusions completely. Especially the ones where they admit they don't even know if teleportation is theoretically possible, and they're not even past creating hypotheses on how it would work.

This could go on indefinitely.....I'm finished with this thread for now......but in conclusion I

will say.......................' ya, boo, sucks'......no that's not what I meant to say....

Don't be finished. This discussion is enjoyable. Besides, you still need to address most of my points, the ones you didn't hit by saying "The government is covering it up!" and "The government can't be lying about it!" alternately.

And another quote.....from...http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/teleport.pdf

for you to attempt to discredit.....good luck.

During a talk that he gave at the U.S. Capitol building, Uri caused a spoon to curve

upward with no force applied, and then the spoon continued to bend after he put it back down and

continued with his talk (Alexander, 1996). Jack Houck continues doing extensive experimental work and

data collection on micro- and macro-PK phenomena. Scientifically controlled PK experiments at the

Princeton University Engineering Anomalies Research Laboratory were conducted by Robert Jahn (Dean

Emeritus of the School of Engineering), who reported that repeatedly consistent results in mentally

affecting material substances has been demonstrated in the lab (Jahn and Dunne, 1987). In the 1980s,

Jahn attended a meeting on the PK topic at the Naval Research Laboratory, and warned that foreign

adversaries could exploit micro- or macro-PK to induce U.S. military fighter pilots to lose control of their

aircraft and crash.

Uri touched the spoon. It's admitted even in the quote you have here. I like the "no force applied" part though. Hah. Hah. And, free today, an extra "Hah." Too bad I can't find any images of the scene. Preferably some where the tendons in his hands are straining to not provide force as they do every time he bends a spoon.

Jahn's work is interesting but by no means conclusive. It appears to show that concentration can provide an extremely minor effect on random computer-generated processes. However, this could even have nothing to do with telekinesis whatsoever. After all, someone could program a computer to recognize certain patterns in my brain, so that if I concentrated on the number zero, the computer would then generate that number more than the number, say, one.

This is hardly telekinesis, and I realize it's not what he's doing either. However, it is much more likely that if his results are valid [like the ones from the fictional study], they are occurring because of some sort of interference caused by perfectly normal energy from the brain. It's not TK. Calling it TK is like saying that because my radio goes static near interfering signals, those same interfering signals can flip objects through the air. They can't. They're simply interfering.

Unless you're going to argue that any energy in the human body which has a chance to affect matter even slightly proves TK, in which case I'm no longer going to argue with you, as we have plenty of electrical energy coursing through us at any given second. And there's the gravitational effect, too, which is probably about as strong as the TK effect produced by Geller.

I will say.........'there's none so blind as those that will not see.'

Indeed.