shapeshifting

[Kazahel]

I'm turning 34 this year. And I have been shapeshifting in lucid dreams since I was about 17.

There is no question that there are, on this board, many skeptics that are quite knowledgeable and well versed on this subject.

I've only ever seen those who think they are... Never any that actually 'know'.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Kazahel

[AlexG]

I'm turning 34 this year. And I have been shapeshifting in lucid dreams since I was about 17.

Dreams, reality, if you can't tell one from another, don't step in front of the bus.

[Kazahel]

Dreams, reality, if you can't tell one from another, don't step in front of the bus.

Yeah ok. I can tell you know what your talking about hey. I guess your a skeptic? lol

Edited October 21, 2008 by Kazahel

[JET SAVAGE]

After dedicating 20 years of my life to the study and research of shapeshifting, I can say that the today of sciences and arts spanfg from mystery schools that sprang from the oldest study n humanity, they call it immortality or the phylosophers stone, but it includes the art of manipulating the mind o assume any shape.

The legends of witches turning people into animals is based of real events like all myths and legends of course.

The most populated shapeshifting area above the surface of the earth is in west Africa, but if I told you exacly where i would defeat your challemge and get myself into deep trouble.

Shapeshifting happens in all adults. Just take an photo of your lover asleep and awak and notice the difference.

I wish I coud explain more, but I would laugh at my own comments, and the journey of discovery must be made by the traveller otherwise this matrix will reveal nothing to you.

As for my personal experiences. Yes, I have witnessed the illusion of such things, I have witness far greater realities though, and no, my shape shifting excersises have revealed real amazing things like doctors killing and reviving animals and very deep stuff about reality that could never be believde, but not personal shifting shape as yet. Pnly in dreams. The lucid drea method is an excellent method for breaking down the day to day reality matrix we all create by belief.

I suggest you study collective consciousness and reverse engineer the process.lol.

[JET SAVAGE]

I'm pretty sure people have said this before but, if you don't want skeptics to comment, then you probably shouldn't mention it in the topic name- they immediatly think there's something worth talking about and will comment.

If you want to shapeshift, I hear there's a cactus that'll make you think you've changed form, but other than that you'll have to be happy with your physical form as it is. You cannot change your DNA, if you want to shapeshift you might be able to change the form of your spirit or soul or whatever, but not your body.

I dissagree with the antiquated dna statement. Quantum research with dna has proven that by close proximity, one dna strand can influence a seperate dna entity to copy it's code. This throws our concept of dna out the window and opens the door to mind over dna..lol.

The point of relevance is that the dna is influenced by mind.

By reading that book the celestine prophecy, I realized how important body energy is. To be abled to hold a high amount of chi allows us to defy reality as seen with chi masters from China and Tibet.

Maybe our ability to hold bodily chi to high values is what this spiritual path is all about, to clense the mind of virtual suffering automatically prevents the body from leaking chi thus immediately, the ageing process is slowed. Beyong this, living away from society further increases the ability to retain chi. But I assume that being borm with this ability is the first step to superhuman ability. Cultivation from childhood failed the old mystics into old aged meditators hoping for majesty in the next life instead.lol

[newbloodmoon]

I'm pretty sure people have said this before but, if you don't want skeptics to comment, then you probably shouldn't mention it in the topic name- they immediatly think there's something worth talking about and will comment.

If you want to shapeshift, I hear there's a cactus that'll make you think you've changed form, but other than that you'll have to be happy with your physical form as it is. You cannot change your DNA, if you want to shapeshift you might be able to change the form of your spirit or soul or whatever, but not your body.

The cactus is Peyote, which is illegal to consume unless you can prove that you belong to a peyote church and even then you have to be a minimum of 1/4 Native American.

(if there is any actual peyote church members out there then feel free to correct me if my information is incorrect)

Edited October 22, 2008 by newbloodmoon

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

Jet you are living in a different world than the rest of us. Edited October 21, 2008 by The Skeptic Eric Raven

[Harte]

I dissagree with the antiquated dna statement. Quantum research with dna has proven that by close proximity, one dna strand can influence a seperate dna entity to copy it's code. This throws our concept of dna out the window and opens the door to mind over dna..lol.

The point of relevance is that the dna is influenced by mind.

There has never been any instance anywhere of any DNA being "influenced by the mind."

By reading that book the celestine prophecy, I realized how important body energy is. To be abled to hold a high amount of chi allows us to defy reality as seen with chi masters from China and Tibet.

The Celestine Prophecy is a work of fiction. Ask the author.

Might as well come to "realize how important" the palintir is after reading Lord of the Rings.

Harte

[Hamlyn]

To me, it's possible to view DNA structures as a physical embodiment of or vehicle for "mind." Much like the brain.

The question is, which comes first, the "information," or the structure that encodes it?

If consciousness is the result of material form, then there is no shapeshifting.

If material form is the result of consciousness, then shapeshifting might be possible.

Maybe the dichotomy between form/structure and information/consciousness is false to begin with, and herein lies our problem.

I'm not sure.

[DfizzleShizzle]

The thought of shapeshifting is very illogical. In a sense you'd have to rearrange your DNA every time you shifted. And, putting "No skeptics" will usually just draw more skeptics to your post. This is a discussion board, by the way, so you cant exclude one group of members. Its just not how things work...

[newbloodmoon]

And, putting "No skeptics" will usually just draw more skeptics to your post. This is a discussion board, by the way, so you cant exclude one group of members. Its just not how things work...

I would have to agree, it would be like putting a target on your back and running through a rifle range screaming "no shooting". Part of a forum like this is the exchange of ideas regardless of your viewpoint.

[CosmicDreams]

Have you ever heard of John Perkins? He traveled all over the world and studied with the shamans about shapeshifting. That could be a good start to check out some of his books, he has a book called "Shapeshifting". Let me know if that helps.

Peace

~Crystal

[Stellar]

If dreams arnt that real... like in the way I was trying to get across(feeling wise)... then why is it that you dont understand generally that you are dreaming?

Hmm, any time I'm lucid dreaming I'm doing so because I realise the dream is nothing more than a dream...

[Kazahel]

Hmm, any time I'm lucid dreaming I'm doing so because I realise the dream is nothing more than a dream...

Oh man.. yes but most people generally(which is why I used that word by the way) dont go lucid do they. Most people dont actually lucid dream that often, so generally most people dont understand that they are dreaming while they are dreaming. And this is because the dream environment is realistic.. thats why people run away from whatever when they have nightmares, or orgasm when they maybe have sexual dreams... this is because the dream environment is realistic, and I'm surprised that I have to explain this and defend it.

So all I've been saying is that dreaming is realistic... which I think it is.. thats why people react the way they do in their dreams.. so having a shapeshifting dream when you actually turn yourself into an animal(fully shifting - paws and all).. seems pretty realistic, and that experience shouldnt be overlooked just because its a dream. So if people are actually after the experience of shapeshifting then I would suggest learning to shapeshift during a lucid dream.

Tell you what... why dont next time you lucid dream you try running really fast then placing your hands down and keeping running and see if you can shift.. tell us all how you go. Yeah?

[Stellar]

And this is because the dream environment is realistic.. thats why people run away from whatever when they have nightmares, or orgasm when they maybe have sexual dreams... this is because the dream environment is realistic, and I'm surprised that I have to explain this and defend it.

No... its because they're higher cognitive brain functions are disabled and they are thus incapable (sometimes) of realising how artificial the dream environment really is.

Tell you what... why dont next time you lucid dream you try running really fast then placing your hands down and keeping running and see if you can shift.. tell us all how you go. Yeah?

And what will this accomplish?

[Kazahel]

No... its because they're higher cognitive brain functions are disabled and they are thus incapable (sometimes) of realising how artificial the dream environment really is.

It doesnt matter if they are lucid dreaming or not in regards to realism. So we dont have to even be talking about lucid dreaming when we are saying how realistic dreams can be. The realism is pretty much the same. I dont understand how you can say they arnt realistic(if thats what your trying to say)... I mean the dream environment is not the same of course but it resembles life generally, which gives it realism. imo anyway.

And what will this accomplish?

First up you'll gain experience. Then might come understanding. Then might come silence.

Edited October 27, 2008 by Kazahel

[S2F]

So let me get this straight, you're saying that dreaming of shapeshifting somehow makes shapeshifting real???

Forgive my skepticism, but if we accept anything that is dreamed as being real then you pretty much have to chuck science out the window.

I've dreamed that I could fly, but I'm not going to be jumping off any cliffs any time soon.

JMO

[Kazahel]

I've dreamed that I could fly, but I'm not going to be jumping off any cliffs any time soon.

Yeah I really think that because I have shapeshifted in a dream I can in real life. I'm saying that shapeshifting in dreams, is shapeshifting. Shapeshifting is shapeshifting.. and its as real as dreams are. And dreams are real because you dream them(I dont mean real as in you can touch them though).

Anyway tell us... when you dreamt you were flying did it feel real? Tell me everyone and anyone.... when you(if your lucky enough)have those flying dreams... do you enjoy them because they feel quite real and like your really flying?...

What more do you want me to say, and how else can I explain it without people just saying stupid stuff like what I just quoted.

Anyway here is my original post in this thread which seems to be makiung such a fuss...

Shapeshifting I've found is pretty easy when you are lucid dreaming. The hard part is lucid dreaming.. shifting in them is just a matter of doing what you'd natually think would shift you. I found running fast and then placing my hands down to keep running with all fours helps to shift.. or if your in the water place your feet together to form the tail then flick it to fully shift. It's like sometimes you can half shift but then if you do an action it fully shifts you.

And people shouldnt think that because its just a dream it doesnt really count in the experience you know.. because usually you dont know your dreaming because it is so real.

See down the bottom where I said how its an experience... dreaming of shapeshifting is a shapeshifting experience. And all of what I said had nothing to do with waking life or me then thinking(or even saying) I could shapeshift in real life. I just said it was a realistic experience(not quite that word but I tried to implied that meaning)..

So yeah.. all this fuss from the skeptics only shows me how they like to spout nonsense.

[S2F]

I have dreamed of being in a dangerous situation as well, and have even used my imagination to think what it might be like. After having actually been in a dangerous situation it was nothing like what I dreamed or imagined. Therefore the only conclusion I can come to is that any "experience" dreamed or imagined won't have much bearing (if any) on real world situations. Sorry, but the best I can attribute to your theory is that you may believe what you dream may be realistic, but in my experience it isn't.

[Stellar]

It doesnt matter if they are lucid dreaming or not in regards to realism.

Youre right! Whether your lucid dreaming or not has no influence on whether a dream is realistic or not!

So we dont have to even be talking about lucid dreaming when we are saying how realistic dreams can be. The realism is pretty much the same.

The level of realism depends on the dream. I never claimed that lucid dreams are more realistic than non-lucid ones.

I dont understand how you can say they arnt realistic(if thats what your trying to say)... I mean the dream environment is not the same of course but it resembles life generally, which gives it realism. imo anyway.

The sims resembles life "generally", that doesnt make it realistic.

First up you'll gain experience. Then might come understanding. Then might come silence.

I lack experience simply because I never, in all my lucid dreaming, decided to shape shift? Do you need a straw, by any chance?

I'm saying that shapeshifting in dreams, is shapeshifting. Shapeshifting is shapeshifting.. and its as real as dreams are. And dreams are real because you dream them(I dont mean real as in you can touch them though).

You might aswell use the same argument with computer games instead of dreams.

Anyway tell us... when you dreamt you were flying did it feel real? Tell me everyone and anyone.... when you(if your lucky enough)have those flying dreams... do you enjoy them because they feel quite real and like your really flying?...

You dont "feel" anything. Your cognitive brain functions are dormant. You neither think "This is real" nor "This is not real" until you lucid dream, and the reason you lucid dream is because those functions are no longer dormant and you *realise* its a dream.

[Kazahel]

I'm not going to bother much more cause its getting tedious.

Youre right! Whether your lucid dreaming or not has no influence on whether a dream is realistic or not!

The level of realism depends on the dream. I never claimed that lucid dreams are more realistic than non-lucid ones.

The sims resembles life "generally", that doesnt make it realistic.

I dont understand, you have even said yourself that the level of realism depends on the dream.

The sims resembles life "generally", that doesnt make it realistic.

Thats debatable I guess. I mean why do they call them Sims in the first place? lol... like flight sims or driving sims you know... Simulations...and they generally try to make them as realistic as they can get now days, especially using things like DX10.

You dont "feel" anything. Your cognitive brain functions are dormant. You neither think "This is real" nor "This is not real" until you lucid dream, and the reason you lucid dream is because those functions are no longer dormant and you *realise* its a dream.

So you dont feel any emotions in dreams? You dont feel fear in dreams.. you dont feel sadness in dreams... Normal dreams that is. I think most people do depending on the dream. And actually you do tend to think to yourself 'this is not real'(if youve been practising) which then triggers you into going lucid. So you dream normally and then something happens in the dream that makes you think "am I dreaming this?".. and then you go lucid from you answer.

[Kazahel]

I have dreamed of being in a dangerous situation as well, and have even used my imagination to think what it might be like. After having actually been in a dangerous situation it was nothing like what I dreamed or imagined. Therefore the only conclusion I can come to is that any "experience" dreamed or imagined won't have much bearing (if any) on real world situations. Sorry, but the best I can attribute to your theory is that you may believe what you dream may be realistic, but in my experience it isn't.

At least youve stopped trying to make out the incorrect things you were trying to make out before. Thanks.

And I've gone skydiving heaps of times. And I have dreamed of falling many times too... and guess what... they feel pretty much the same.. in my experience anyway.

[Kazahel]

I have dreamed of being in a dangerous situation as well, and have even used my imagination to think what it might be like. After having actually been in a dangerous situation it was nothing like what I dreamed or imagined. Therefore the only conclusion I can come to is that any "experience" dreamed or imagined won't have much bearing (if any) on real world situations. Sorry, but the best I can attribute to your theory is that you may believe what you dream may be realistic, but in my experience it isn't.

How about this then..

If you have a simple dream of watching a dog crossing the street... do you think that would be considered a realistic dream of a dog crossing a street?

[S2F]

How about this then..

If you have a simple dream of watching a dog crossing the street... do you think that would be considered a realistic dream of a dog crossing a street?

Surreal is the word that comes to mind, appearing real yet not real. Most of the time when I dream there is always something that seems "off" about everything.

* I have no idea what that says about me as a person lol.

[SRGhostgirl]

Hi Everyone:

I am understanding shape-shifting to be when one morphs from a human into an animal for some spiritual purpose, and then the animal goes back to human form once the lesson, if you will, is learned. Since DNA cannot be changed and everybody knows you cannot physically change into something else, I would think that shape shifting would take place during meditation or visualization. On a lighter side,I have wanted so many times to morph into my cats just to see what life is like not having to work and just having everything come to me!

I have read where one poster said he has shape-shifted during dreams. I find this interesting, since lucid dreaming entails being in a dream and telling yourself that you are dreaming AND being able to change what happen in the dream. To me, this implies that the person willingly shape-shifted during their dream. Perhaps whoever posted this could elaborate a bit?

I think any spiritual journey comes to us and that we cannot call on it to happen, and that nobody can teach us how to shape-shift or embark on any type of spiritual journey. It just happens, and there is always a reason for that journey.

Has anyone else shape-shifted during meditation or visualizations? I would be more interested in those type of meditations/visualization without peyote or other types of drugs.

Love and light,

Susan