Money = Freedom (try not to get too upset)

[questionmark]

Flat tax sounds good. Realistically, however - you're not going to get either of those, this election, at least.

... and probably not immediately after next ...

[Dusty Digital]

Still waiting for someone to site the moral or ethical basis for taking money out of my pocket and giving it to someone else just because I may have a bit more than they.

Utilitarism would be one. If the total utility created by taking money out of your pocket and giving it to someone else causes a higher aggregate utility than would exist were you to keep all the money, then from a utilitarian standpoint it would be ethically sound to take some of that money.

To make this clearer, I'll give you a very pronounced example. If you have a hundred apples, and I have none, and both our utility functions are concave (I get more utility from getting my first apple than you from getting your (for example) 80th apple since I'm starving and you're already sick of apples), from a utilitarian standpoint there would certainly be basis for a third player to take some apples from you and give them to me to maximize total utility

edit: and it might even improve your utility since I would have less incentive to murder you for your delicious apples

Edited October 23, 2008 by Dusty Digital

[BlindMessiah]

Flat tax sounds good. Realistically, however - you're not going to get either of those, this election, at least.

Because our politicians are:

a) Corrupt

c) Stupid

d) Corrupt and stupid

(B makes a smiley face so...)

Edited October 23, 2008 by BlindMessiah

[MasterPo]

Utilitarism would be one. If the total utility created by taking money out of your pocket and giving it to someone else causes a higher aggregate utility than would exist were you to keep all the money, then from a utilitarian standpoint it would be ethically sound to take some of that money.

I didn't know that Eminant Domain extends to my wallet.

[Splodgenessabounds]

Because our politicians are:

a) Corrupt

c) Stupid

d) Corrupt and stupid

(B makes a smiley face so...)

I'd put it as,

1) Corrupt

2) Stupid

3) Nothing else

[AzTide]

Go live in the wilderness if you're so afraid of paying a little bit more than someone on minimum income.

Actually why is it my fault if someone is living on minimum income? I did my share of that and scratched my way up let them do the same.

[questionmark]

Actually why is it my fault if someone is living on minimum income? I did my share of that and scratched my way up let them do the same.

It is not your fault, but if those of minimum income are the majority it always ends in revolution. Therefore: if you want to stay rich don't behave like Scrooge McDuck.

[MasterPo]

It is not your fault, but if those of minimum income are the majority it always ends in revolution. Therefore: if you want to stay rich don't behave like Scrooge McDuck.

I support "minimum income" people and not-so-minimum income people when I buy things. Whether I buy a new suit or a pizza someone is making a living.

That's the right way to do it!

[AzTide]

I support "minimum income" people and not-so-minimum income people when I buy things. Whether I buy a new suit or a pizza someone is making a living.

That's the right way to do it!

When I messed up in school and bad grades my dad use to say "Keep it up the world needs ditch diggers also". His way of saying it's your choice.

[questionmark]

I support "minimum income" people and not-so-minimum income people when I buy things. Whether I buy a new suit or a pizza someone is making a living.

That's the right way to do it!

Proven by the fact that you are polemic against somebody earning 300K a year having to pay $125 extra in taxes...we know.

[MasterPo]

Proven by the fact that you are polemic against somebody earning 300K a year having to pay $125 extra in taxes...we know.

40% more tax on top of his current tax.

Yea, that's OK. He worked hard but really doesn't need it.

[questionmark]

40% more tax on top of his current tax.

Yea, that's OK. He worked hard but really doesn't need it.

You better get a new calculator, if $150 is 40% more taxes that would mean that somebody who earns $300.000 only pays $312.15 a year in taxes... If that is the case I have been cheated the last ten years...but as I am a good sport I'll donate it towards paying the national deficit.

[MasterPo]

You better get a new calculator, if $150 is 40% more taxes that would mean that somebody who earns $300.000 only pays $312.15 a year in taxes... If that is the case I have been cheated the last ten years...but as I am a good sport I'll donate it towards paying the national deficit.

125/300 = 40%. (42% actually)

[questionmark]

125/300 = 40%. (42% actually)

Yeh, right.... (this one tests my patience) again, somebody who earns $300.000, after using all possible deductibles, pays about $51.000 in taxes. With Obama's proposal he would pay $51.125. Where is that 40%?

Indiscreet question: You flunked math, didn't you?

[AzTide]

Yeh, right.... (this one tests my patience) again, somebody who earns $300.000, after using all possible deductibles, pays about $51.000 in taxes. With Obama's proposal he would pay $51.125. Where is that 40%?

Indiscreet question: You flunked math, didn't you?

Why argue about the guy making 300 they get all of their tax money back and then some.

How about people like us that make between 75 and 125k we are the ones in trouble guys....

[MasterPo]

Yeh, right.... (this one tests my patience) again, somebody who earns $300.000, after using all possible deductibles, pays about $51.000 in taxes. With Obama's proposal he would pay $51.125. Where is that 40%?

Indiscreet question: You flunked math, didn't you?

Did you mean $125 or $125,000?

If the former, my misunderstanding.

NTL, I still reiterate a prior point:

With a $1 trillion dollar debt, war debt, $700 billion bail out and other bail outs, plus he wants to implement universal national health care, $1000 per child savings bond, etc etc.

Do you really think 95% of people will see taxes go down??

[questionmark]

Why argue about the guy making 300 they get all of their tax money back and then some.

How about people like us that make between 75 and 125k we are the ones in trouble guys....

sorry, had my calculator on European... they use commas to separate the fractions and points to separate the thousand, so again:

Yeh, right.... (this one tests my patience) again, somebody who earns $300,000, after using all possible deductibles, pays about $51,000 in taxes. With Obama's proposal he would pay $51,125. Where is that 40%?

Indiscreet question: You flunked math, didn't you?

[Fluffybunny]

[quote name='MasterPo' date='Oct 23 2008, 07:45 PM' post='2568248'

Do you really think 95% of people will see taxes go down??

Who said 95% of people will see taxes go down??

[Splodgenessabounds]

Indiscreet question: You flunked math, didn't you?

Subtle

[questionmark]

Did you mean $125 or $125,000?

If the former, my misunderstanding.

NTL, I still reiterate a prior point:

With a $1 trillion dollar debt, war debt, $700 billion bail out and other bail outs, plus he wants to implement universal national health care, $1000 per child savings bond, etc etc.

Do you really think 95% of people will see taxes go down??

Oh, I don't expect the taxes to actually go down. No matter who the prez will be they will have to go up as I said in many post before. The party is over, time to pay the bill...and that includes those who have less than their share of the government expenses.

[MasterPo]

Who said 95% of people will see taxes go down??

B. Hussein Obama is supposed to give tax cuts to 95% of people and "only" increase taxes on 5%.

What did I miss?

[Godsnmbr1]

B. Hussein Obama is supposed to give tax cuts to 95% of people and "only" increase taxes on 5%.

What did I miss?

I can't believe you keep using the middle name...

classic

[MasterPo]

Oh, I don't expect the taxes to actually go down. No matter who the prez will be they will have to go up as I said in many post before. The party is over, time to pay the bill...and that includes those who have less than their share of the government expenses.

So why on Earth then vote for someone promising to raise taxes??

[questionmark]

B. Hussein Obama is supposed to give tax cuts to 95% of people and "only" increase taxes on 5%.

What did I miss?

The fact that only 1.5% earn more than $250,000 a year...that means that that either somebody did the math wrong or was way to optimistic about the earning potential in the USA

[MasterPo]

The fact that only 1.5% earn more than $250,000 a year...that means that that either somebody did the math wrong or was way to optimistic about the earning potential in the USA

So rather than try to expand people into the upper income ranges, public policy is to tare down those in the 1.5% to the lower ranks.

Nice. Very constructive.