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MasterPo

Money = Freedom (try not to get too upset)

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SoCrazes

Many believe that the voucher system coupled with the No Child Left Behind Act is ploy to privatize the education system.

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SoCrazes
What about using them for Charter Schools? They hire quality teachers...

Why should my tax dollars pay for a School Administrator who makes 100k plus and gets a housing and car allowance with an expense account while teachers struggle. "And this happens ALLOT in big school districts"

I agree somewhat, however, the big school districts have an incredible amount of students and it takes a lot of bucks to recruit not only qualified, but good, administrators. Teachers are underpaid.

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AzTide
I agree somewhat, however, the big school districts have an incredible amount of students and it takes a lot of bucks to recruit not only qualified, but good, administrators. Teachers are underpaid.

Then break the school systems up into smaller sub districts

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SoCrazes
Then break the school systems up into smaller sub districts

Then you have more administrators. If you think the education system is a mess, I agree. But it isn't that bad. Many beleive the problem lies with the fact that government officials that make laws and mandates haven't a clue about education (and many don't). Many have never stepped a foot in the classroom. For example, according to the No Child Left Behind Act (NCLB), 100% of all students must be reading, writing, and doing math at grade level by 2014. That sounds great, ideal! But hardly practical. The NCLB is an unfunded mandate made by the federal government.

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Then you have more administrators. If you think the education system is a mess, I agree. But it isn't that bad. Many beleive the problem lies with the fact that government officials that make laws and mandates haven't a clue about education (and many don't). Many have never stepped a foot in the classroom. For example, according to the No Child Left Behind Act (NCLB), 100% of all students must be reading, writing, and doing math at grade level by 2014. That sounds great, ideal! But hardly practical. The NCLB is an unfunded mandate made by the federal government.

I have an idea for that, some countries have a quality control for teachers where inspectors check performance. The first indicator always is general low grades in standardized test evaluated outside the school. Then inspectors come in and check why. If it is the teacher he/she gotta find a new job.

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SoCrazes
I have an idea for that, some countries have a quality control for teachers where inspectors check performance. The first indicator always is general low grades in standardized test evaluated outside the school. Then inspectors come in and check why. If it is the teacher he/she gotta find a new job.

Good idea, providing there are separate inspectors and not one inspector. What countries?

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Good idea, providing there are separate inspectors and not one inspector. What countries?

Finland, Sweden, Holland, Germany I can say for sure (there may be others)... the first two are on the top of the PISA school performance rating.

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AzTide
Finland, Sweden, Holland, Germany I can say for sure (there may be others)... the first two are on the top of the PISA school performance rating.

My cousins are from Gothenburg in Sweden and they have received an outstanding education.

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My cousins are from Gothenburg in Sweden and they have received an outstanding education.

I was always shocked at the difference, my parents send me to a boarding school in Europe and it was always like you got more knowledge while the cousins would stay at the same level.

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AzTide
I was always shocked at the difference, my parents send me to a boarding school in Europe and it was always like you got more knowledge while the cousins would stay at the same level.

Where are you from QM?

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Where are you from QM?

Good question... lets see... I am a child of emigrants who was born in Europe by accident (cause some #@% forgot to fasten a stair rug clamp and my mother tripped and fell down three flights of stairs being six months pregnant). I lived in Texas until 3d grade when I went to Europe to the boarding school and stayed all through College. Never really went back to the US except for summer break. I tried it in the 80s (lived in Illinois) but discovered soon that I'd rather be over here.

Tell me were I am from.

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AzTide
Good question... lets see... I am a child of emigrants who was born in Europe by accident (cause some #@% forgot to fasten a stair rug clamp and my mother tripped and fell down three flights of stairs being six months pregnant). I lived in Texas until 3d grade when I went to Europe to the boarding school and stayed all through College. Never really went back to the US except for summer break. I tried it in the 80s (lived in Illinois) but discovered soon that I'd rather be over here.

Tell me were I am from.

The same place as McCain? lol

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The same place as McCain? lol

could be... but I don't want to be prezz...the salary is too shabby :lol:

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AzTide
could be... but I don't want to be prezz...the salary is too shabby :lol:

200k a year and all expenses paid and a residence for life... That's a great compensation package!

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momentarylapseofreason
Welfare will never prevent poverty.

It did in Germany.

In Germany if you can prove you are in need -you get welfare,health care & free education.

You must actively seek (must be proven by employers) employment or/ and get FREE further education to acquire the tools to obtain decent employment.

You have a set time-limit and they start cutting your benefits down as time progresses (unless being educated to acquire skills).

Some people that get welfare are lazy-some have mental health issues-usually severe depression (possibly substance abuse) & self-confidence issues-some aren't too bright as to learn a decent skill.

Hardly anyone fantasizes about becoming a no good bum in the future when young. Usually something went wrong in their development or environment.

Counseling,coaching & mental health support may help tremendously but is unfortunately in short supply here in the U.S.

People should pay taxes ! I kind of like how the swiss pay their taxes-they choose where their money goes-but are highly informed & educated about where money is needed.

I would have a 10% flat tax rate on all income & on goods/services. No tax write offs (in some cases). Or maybe additionally I would have lower taxes on healthy food products & high taxes on unhealthy foods/products. (high fat sugar/snacks/cigs/alcohol & things harmful to the environment-not petrol for transportation/or heating/gas-bad time).

I would not tax transportation & home energy any more/higher than now(people are already at breaking point) but I would aggressively invest in alternative/clean energies that create new jobs/opportunities.

Lower taxes on evironmentally friendly products & companies. Reward everything that is beneficial to society/environment as a whole.

This would work well if most of the wealthy were happy to help where it is needed, governments were honest, spent money productively & were not so corrupt. Dream on...............

But I'm no expert.

Edited by momentarylapseofreason

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AzTide
It did in Germany.

In Germany if you can prove you are in need -you get welfare,health care & free education.

You must actively seek (must be proven by employers) employment or/ and get FREE further education to acquire the tools to obtain decent employment.

You have a set time-limit and they start cutting your benefits down as time progresses (unless being educated to acquire skills).

Some people that get welfare are lazy-some have mental health issues-usually severe depression (possibly substance abuse) & self-confidence issues-some aren't too bright as to learn a decent skill.

Hardly anyone fantasizes about becoming a no good bum in the future when young. Usually something went wrong in their development or environment.

Counseling,coaching & mental health support may help tremendously but is unfortunately in short supply here in the U.S.

People should pay taxes ! I kind of like how the swiss pay their taxes-they choose where their money goes-but are highly informed & educated about where money is needed.

I would have a 10% flat tax rate on all income & on goods/services. No tax write offs (in some cases). Or maybe additionally I would have lower taxes on healthy food products & high taxes on unhealthy foods/products. (high fat sugar/snacks/cigs/alcohol & things harmful to the environment-not petrol for transportation/or heating/gas-bad time).

I would not tax transportation & home energy any more/higher than now(people are already at breaking point) but I would aggressively invest in alternative/clean energies that create new jobs/opportunities.

Lower taxes on evironmentally friendly products & companies. Reward everything that is beneficial to society/environment as a whole.

This would work well if most of the wealthy were happy to help where it is needed, governments were honest, spent money productively & were not so corrupt. Dream on...............

But I'm no expert.

So your saying Germany has eliminated poverty

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So your saying Germany has eliminated poverty

Not really, there are still people who fall through the security net. But central Europe to the north of Italy and the south of the pole has it very well under control

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Jonny Wonny

Yeah, but what you're forgetting is that nearly everybody in the first world don't achieve their fruit by it being "hard earned".

Money = debt, why you think they call the dollar a BILL?

Watch the new Zeitgeist movie!

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AzTide
Not really, there are still people who fall through the security net. But central Europe to the north of Italy and the south of the pole has it very well under control

But who pays for the opportunity for the poor to receive these benefits?

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But who pays for the opportunity for the poor to receive these benefits?

Taxes. But see, there is a difference from paying taxes in Europe and paying taxes in the US. In (most of) Europe you see something that comes back to you, from free education to free health care to a social safety net that does not propel you into abject poverty if you have an accident or unexpected illness. For that you happily pay taxes (well, almost happily). And they don't nickel and dime you to death with communal charges, highway tolls and what-have-you.

The better the safety system (Sweden, Norway,Finland, Denmark) the higher the taxes and the higher the highest bracket (I think in Sweden it can be over 70%). BTW the Swedish millionaires are still living in the country.

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MasterPo
It did in Germany.

In Germany if you can prove you are in need -you get welfare,health care & free education.

You must actively seek (must be proven by employers) employment or/ and get FREE further education to acquire the tools to obtain decent employment.

You have a set time-limit and they start cutting your benefits down as time progresses (unless being educated to acquire skills).

Some people that get welfare are lazy-some have mental health issues-usually severe depression (possibly substance abuse) & self-confidence issues-some aren't too bright as to learn a decent skill.

Hardly anyone fantasizes about becoming a no good bum in the future when young. Usually something went wrong in their development or environment.

Counseling,coaching & mental health support may help tremendously but is unfortunately in short supply here in the U.S.

When did this policy get implemented?

Are there any stats to show the success rate? That is, how many people that went on welfare X-years ago stayed for Y-time and are now self-sufficient?

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MasterPo
I have an idea for that, some countries have a quality control for teachers where inspectors check performance. The first indicator always is general low grades in standardized test evaluated outside the school. Then inspectors come in and check why. If it is the teacher he/she gotta find a new job.

Where does the "quality control" for the student happen?

If the student is up late every night playing Xbox that's beyond the control of the teacher.

If the student doesn't do the home work or assigned reading or the libary time that's beyond the control of the teacher.

If the student doesn't even bother to show up for class that's beyond the control of the teacher.

I don't deny some teachers are better than others. Met quite a few myself in my school years. But good or bad teacher, I still learned. That was my "performance". Someone mentioned having just a DVD player instead of teacher. I'd like to see that. I bet the good students would still do well and the dead-wood would do just as poorly.

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momentarylapseofreason
So your saying Germany has eliminated poverty

of course not !

But there is much less homelessness & poverty.

If you live in poverty you chose to do so -or suffer severe addiction and have refused to get help

We have somewhat americanized the system & now poverty is increasing rapidly-actually

I think they are working against that now (americanization of the system) but they don't want it to be like the not so long ago past where people could live wonderfully and collect welfare whilst sitting on their butts.

It's all about balance, fairness, intelligent strategies/planning.

We need to help people that truly need help and help them to help themselves.

Edited by momentarylapseofreason

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MasterPo
But there is much less homelessness & poverty.

If giving money and programs solved poverty, then how do you account for the billions - if not trillions! - of dollars spent since the 70's on welfare and poverty programs?

IOW, if just giving money was the answer why hasn't it worked or at least made a significant dent?

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If giving money and programs solved poverty, then how do you account for the billions - if not trillions! - of dollars spent since the 70's on welfare and poverty programs?

IOW, if just giving money was the answer why hasn't it worked or at least made a significant dent?

The problem is not to give somebody a fish, but a net to catch his own. That is what American style welfare has not learned since 1906.

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