reikki and other healing type arts

[snappydragon]

Would this be considered psychic healing? Is there a christian based healing modality? Those who feel that they can heal, is it God working through you(as you understand him)? Or what? I'd like to discuss it.

[Rex mundi]

My father is a third degree Reiki practitioner. The boyfriend of my mother (my parents are obviously divorced) knows reiki and Shamballah. I grew up with it sort-o-speak. You really have to undergo a session to feel the immense power of the energy.

Yes you can consider it psychic healing. And yes you can consider it as Gods energy, the energy of love.

As for a Christian(bible) based healing modality, i know of some interesting results from prayers. (lowering crime rates and mortality rates). Christ himself could have been practicing Reiki, Shamballah or any other kind of energy healing.

[snappydragon]

Yes, prayer is a powerful healing modality. I have heard of some miracles through prayer. My friend is a Reiki master, we go to a book club together. I have a book on hold at the libary about healing touch therapy. I would like to learn more about reiki and healing touch.

[Mattshark]

Reiki and healing touch have failed comprehensively to show any effects when studied. Praying for someone also shows no effect (in one study people prayed for did much worse) but in general the results show nothing more than a placebo effect.

Sorry it is a con and is dangerous to health wise as people will use them over known working techniques.

Reiki clinical trail

Healing touch was actually disproved by an 11 year old girl, the results of the study showed that healing touch has a lower success rate than chance would (sub 50%). Healing touch failure.

All alternative healing methods are associated to higher mortality rates. Especially in children,

Edited October 30, 2008 by Mattshark

[Rex mundi]

It looks like you (mattshark) are dismissing the placebo effect like so many other researchers. It is a strong effect and doesn't follow the lines of chance. Researchers keep failing at finding the reason behind the placebo effect and the results that end terminal diseases or other un-treatable illnesses . I wouldn't go as far as to say that placebo effect= prayers and/or psychic healing. But they are very much alike from my point of view.

But it is funny that placebo effect is dismissed, but the same results with medicine is enough to get it into production. Pharmaceutical companies are everywhere and hold a tight lid on the placebo subject in magazines and mainstream news. AIDS in Africa is a good example of that, try and get some real figures with real results that aren't backed up by pharmaceutical companies. Thank God for Internet and sites like this, that let people think for themselves and find different results outside the mainstream (big money).

[eight bits]

Matt, I was unable to access the reiki article, since your link skips the Wiley login cookie. Could you please give a conventional citation to the work you are discussing?

As to the Thearpeautic Touch article in JAMA, it does not address the therapeutic efficacy of the practice, but rather establishes the bulltickitude of the practitioners' explanation about the mechanism involved. That is nice to know, but irrelevant to the topic of the thread.

After all, I am sure that the jungle healers told a colorful tale about why they thought that quinine was effective against malaria. It would have been tragic to test the story, rather than the quinine.

Good job by the young scientist, though. She would be college-age now. I hope she builds on this auspicious launch in science.

Rex, in pharmaceutical testing, placebo effects are controlled for, not dismissed. The bar is set at performance greater than that achieved by placebo.

[Mattshark]

Matt, I was unable to access the reiki article, since your link skips the Wiley login cookie. Could you please give a conventional citation to the work you are discussing?

As to the Thearpeautic Touch article in JAMA, it does not address the therapeutic efficacy of the practice, but rather establishes the bulltickitude of the practitioners' explanation about the mechanism involved. That is nice to know, but irrelevant to the topic of the thread.

After all, I am sure that the jungle healers told a colorful tale about why they thought that quinine was effective against malaria. It would have been tragic to test the story, rather than the quinine.

Good job by the young scientist, though. She would be college-age now. I hope she builds on this auspicious launch in science.

Rex, in pharmaceutical testing, placebo effects are controlled for, not dismissed. The bar is set at performance greater than that achieved by placebo.

Should work

M. S. Lee, M. H. Pittler, E. Ernst

Effects of reiki in clinical practice: a systematic review of randomised clinical trials

International Journal of Clinical Practice

Volume 62 Issue 6, Pages 947 - 954

[eight bits]

Thanks, Matt.

Well, the Lord giveth

Conclusion: In conclusion, the evidence is insufficient to suggest that reiki is an effective treatment for any condition. Therefore the value of reiki remains unproven.

and the Lord taketh away

Discussion: In total, the trial data for any one condition are scarce and independent replications are not available for each condition. Most trials suffered from methodological flaws such as small sample size, inadequate study design and poor reporting.

Reiki remains unproven, but there hasn't been much high-quality testing yet.

Jury's still out, Matt. Carry on, snappydragon.

[violetcave]

I've had reiki on different occasions, it healed a sprained ankle in one day, did not help back pain, long distance healing over 3 weeks produced on day of feeling perfect, happy, content. I have not given up on it but it works better in person.

[Mattshark]

Thanks, Matt.

Well, the Lord giveth

and the Lord taketh away

Reiki remains unproven, but there hasn't been much high-quality testing yet.

Jury's still out, Matt. Carry on, snappydragon.

It will always still be out hence I said it has "failed to comprehensively show effect" rather than simply do not work, but since no one has in numerous studies shown any real results I find it hard to believe they ever will.

If there are any benefits out of this it is out of physical contact however not and spiritual thing.

Edited October 31, 2008 by Mattshark

[eight bits]

no one has in numerous studies shown any real results I find it hard to believe they ever will.

Fair enough, Matt. Can't argue with belief.

[little_dreamer]

Is there a short and precise definition of Reiki?

[Mattshark]

Fair enough, Matt. Can't argue with belief.

There is a report about pain which suggests that physical contact could be what is the difference, it also said that patients claimed less pain but didn't decrease pain killer usage.

Reiki

Snackfood check out the Wiki page on reiki

Edited October 31, 2008 by Mattshark

[Mattshark]

My father is a third degree Reiki practitioner. The boyfriend of my mother (my parents are obviously divorced) knows reiki and Shamballah. I grew up with it sort-o-speak. You really have to undergo a session to feel the immense power of the energy.

Yes you can consider it psychic healing. And yes you can consider it as Gods energy, the energy of love.

As for a Christian(bible) based healing modality, i know of some interesting results from prayers. (lowering crime rates and mortality rates). Christ himself could have been practicing Reiki, Shamballah or any other kind of energy healing.

You mothers boyfriend knows about healing with a mythical city in Tibetan Buddhism?

Bible based faith healing has failed to yield results and sees an actual increase in child mortality. Christians prayer most certainly doesn't lead to a lower crime rate.

[Kazahel]

I did a Reiki 1 course just after my 18th birthday. I wasnt sure if it was real or not so I went to check it out, and because I was learning a ki based martial art(ninjukai taijutsu). I thought they went hand in hand together. Anyway I found it surprising in the initiation thing they do.. I went in thinking it was probably not true and that I had wasted my cash(I had an open mind), but during the iniation I did feel something, it felt like I had bubbles of energy going from my feet to the top of my head. It was really strong. I could smell and taste this certain taste too.. I could describe it but it would sound crazy. It taste to me like the air in sunshine above morning dew.. kinda like that. And yeah I dont know what else to really say about it. I use it quite often just when I'm sitting or before I sleep at night, and just to chill. Sometimes I use it if I get a headache or for things like that. So I'm glad I went along because it just feels like I have another tool to use. Like I take a headache tablet too, so they go hand in hand together. It's not really meant to be used instead of medicine its supposed to be used with it. So yeah placebo or not its just another tool to me.

Edited October 31, 2008 by Kazahel

[Razer0]

Ive done Reiki level 3 myself and have done a lot of research and learning on the subject.

A quick explanation:

What is Reiki? Reiki is a natural, simple, safe, effective healing system that uses universal life energy, the energy which permeates our entire universe and all living things. This universal life energy is called qi or chi in China, prana in India, orgone energy, bioenergetic plasma, and ki in Japan and this is where the Reiki name derives; it circulates throughout the body and in an energy field surrounding the body.This energy field, long been known to healers and mystics, is now verified by scientists. Recent scientific experiments have verified the existence of this life force energy. Scientists have proven that everything in the universe, at a sub-atomic level, is made up of energy. Health is the harmonious flow of life energy, while imbalances in this flow (due to unhealthy habits or negative emotions) lead to illness. So this subtle energy is responsible for the processes in our body on all levels: physical, emotional and mental.

Other scientific research into reiki can be found here

Generally what happens, although the experience can change with each person, is that the hands go hot and both parties go into a mild meditative state. While being practiced on, people often feel sensations of hot or cold or shivers, tingling feeling, a rush of blood to some areas, a balancing out of the bodies temperatures and the list goes on. I personally experience a calmness, followed by seeing soft wavey colours of yellow and green. Kind of like a calm day at the sea looking down at the water from the sky... In fact, now that I just remembered, I have the exact same experience of feelings as the effects of acupuncture. Reiki can very much be likened to acupuncture, but is a more hands on approach

[Mattshark]

Ive done Reiki level 3 myself and have done a lot of research and learning on the subject.

A quick explanation:

Other scientific research into reiki can be found here

Generally what happens, although the experience can change with each person, is that the hands go hot and both parties go into a mild meditative state. While being practiced on, people often feel sensations of hot or cold or shivers, tingling feeling, a rush of blood to some areas, a balancing out of the bodies temperatures and the list goes on. I personally experience a calmness, followed by seeing soft wavey colours of yellow and green. Kind of like a calm day at the sea looking down at the water from the sky... In fact, now that I just remembered, I have the exact same experience of feelings as the effects of acupuncture. Reiki can very much be likened to acupuncture, but is a more hands on approach

Sorry but no scientific research has EVER found significant results.

Recent scientific experiments have verified the existence of this life force energy.

This is just an outright lie.

Edited November 1, 2008 by Mattshark

[Razer0]

Thank you for your opinion

[Razer0]

Observable reality:

sorry I meant to edit, cant find the delete button

Edited November 1, 2008 by Razer0

[Mattshark]

Observable reality:

sorry I meant to edit, cant find the delete button

A youtube video not evidence of anything or observable reality. Try an admit that as scientific evidence and be prepared to be politely dismissed.

I posted a scientific journal article that states that the is no evidence to back any of reiki's claims at present. This is evidence.

Recent scientific experiments have verified the existence of this life force energy.

Is actually a lie. This is a complete and utter load of male cows faeces.

Thank you for your opinion

None of this is opinion it just is.

Edited November 2, 2008 by Mattshark

[Razer0]

Matt, I replied to this thread to help snappydragon with her inquiry . Not to give scientific evidence (or lack thereof according to you) about reiki and its healing properties. If you think it does not exist and is an utter load of male cow faeces, then good for you! No need to discourage people in saying its not scientifically true when they have had an experience of their own.

Ive seen someone put a spear to their throat and bend the rod that it is mounted on WITHOUT penetrating their throats - a part of your body without muscle. How do you scientifically explain this? Same as reiki - according to some people and websites

[Mattshark]

Matt, I replied to this thread to help snappydragon with her inquiry . Not to give scientific evidence (or lack thereof according to you) about reiki and its healing properties. If you think it does not exist and is an utter load of male cow faeces, then good for you! No need to discourage people in saying its not scientifically true when they have had an experience of their own.

Ive seen someone put a spear to their throat and bend the rod that it is mounted on WITHOUT penetrating their throats - a part of your body without muscle. How do you scientifically explain this? Same as reiki - according to some people and websites

If you learnt some science and not look up random websites spouting rubbish (which is what a vast majority of the internet is) you would understand. You posted a piece which made a complete and outright lie about science and I believe that should be pointed because people have no clue what science is with out websites making crap up about it.

Putting a spear to your throat and bending the rod is more than scientifically explainable. It is called illusion. You can also roughen the skin to make it hard (same effect that playing guitar has on your fingers) you are careful enough you will not impale your self and of course there is the bluntness of the blade. It is not hard.

I discourage people btw because alternative healing has significantly higher child mortality than orthodox medicine and the vast majority is fraud (even in reiki there is no body to determine standards or practices or even levels, all of this is done independent and to different standards and people are convinced that is ancient when it is in fact not even 100 years old).

[Mbyte]

If you learnt some science and not look up random websites spouting rubbish (which is what a vast majority of the internet is) you would understand. You posted a piece which made a complete and outright lie about science and I believe that should be pointed because people have no clue what science is with out websites making crap up about it.

Putting a spear to your throat and bending the rod is more than scientifically explainable. It is called illusion. You can also roughen the skin to make it hard (same effect that playing guitar has on your fingers) you are careful enough you will not impale your self and of course there is the bluntness of the blade. It is not hard.

I discourage people btw because alternative healing has significantly higher child mortality than orthodox medicine and the vast majority is fraud (even in reiki there is no body to determine standards or practices or even levels, all of this is done independent and to different standards and people are convinced that is ancient when it is in fact not even 100 years old).

I'll challenge your view that alternative medicine is cow crap. I'm making a documentary about Chi Kung and if the documentary goes according to plan and things work out as I hope they will work out then the documentary should prove Chi Kung and it's healing abilities. Hopefully it should be as blatantly obvious and in your face like Wim Hof's ability to stay warm in frigid conditions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=madoDvtKEes...feature=related

Near the start he says the we have an internal thermastat and he can reach but There is other clips of him doing G Tummo. So it isen't simply about figuring out how to heat your body up. Meditation is involved.

I saw another documetary wear a women was in an avalanche and she go severe frostbite. She was an expert acupuncturist and placed needles in points to promote blood cirulation, she fully recovered.

You imply that alternative medicine is so full of crap that it has a negative effect which implies that people are using a bollacks method to heal something when obviouly the alternative medicne can't heal anything thus the illness gets worse (nothing is treating it). The WIm Hof clip at least shows that his method does keep him warm and I'm sure that I can similar results in terms of healing with Chi Kung.

Edited November 2, 2008 by Mbyte

[Razer0]

Nice Mbyte - im looking forward to it!

Some people say - they have to see it to believe it. I say, you have to believe it to see it

[Mattshark]

I'll challenge your view that alternative medicine is cow crap. I'm making a documentary about Chi Kung and if the documentary goes according to plan and things work out as I hope they will work out then the documentary should prove Chi Kung and it's healing abilities. Hopefully it should be as blatantly obvious and in your face like Wim Hof's ability to stay warm in frigid conditions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=madoDvtKEes...feature=related

Near the start he says the we have an internal thermastat and he can reach but There is other clips of him doing G Tummo. So it isen't simply about figuring out how to heat your body up. Meditation is involved.

I saw another documetary wear a women was in an avalanche and she go severe frostbite. She was an expert acupuncturist and placed needles in points to promote blood cirulation, she fully recovered.

You imply that alternative medicine is so full of crap that it has a negative effect which implies that people are using a bollacks method to heal something when obviouly the alternative medicne can't heal anything thus the illness gets worse (nothing is treating it). The WIm Hof clip at least shows that his method does keep him warm and I'm sure that I can similar results in terms of healing with Chi Kung.

A documentary is not proof of anything. Physical conditioning like Wim Hof used is not evidence of alternative medicine, it is evidence of good physical conditioning.

What I am stating is that none of these methods have proven them selves in fair trails. That would be evidence not a documentary. Claiming a documentary as evidence is not much better than claiming Harry Potter as evidence for magic, they are first and foremost for entertainment and documentaries will out right lie or miss out massive pieces of information.

And what I actually said was bull was the following statement and I can assure you it is in fact bull:

Recent scientific experiments have verified the existence of this life force energy.

You want to prove anything it has to be a clinical trail. Anything else is meaningless.