Creationism and 6000 year old dinosaurs.

[Papagiorgio]

and people who exhibit stigmata dont usually have it in the right places either.

Where are the right places?

Edited November 11, 2008 by Papagiorgio

[ravergirl]

I don't think God makes personal plans for each person. And I don't want to believe that. I like the concept of free will. That doesn't mean there aren't "special" people out there who may have a destiny if they choose to follow it.

I don't see it that way.

people have been asking for thousands of years, we've seen nothing yet. other than the stories.

and there are thousands who get quite disapointed, when they pray and nothing happens. nothing at all.

Who are they to know nothing happens at all? you mean people a 2 and 3 hundred years ago that were praying their family would quit dropping off of the earth from sicknesses an plague and famine all died out and we are a whole new people with no ancestry...And medicine hasn't taken leaps and bounds even in the last ONE hundred years.

and smallpox isn't a threat, and influenza isn't a leading cause of death, and there are names for what consumption REALLY is. and there are ways to manufacture food....Just how do you imagine prayers are answered....with a magic wand?

[Agent. Mulder]

Where are the right places?

not on their hands.

[Agent. Mulder]

and smallpox isn't a threat, and influenza isn't a leading cause of death, and there are names for what consumption REALLY is. and there are ways to manufacture food....Just how do you imagine prayers are answered....with a magic wand?

well, thats what happened in your example.

although, not to the thousands who pray, only to have people die right in front of them.

[Papagiorgio]

I don't see it that way.

Why not?

[Papagiorgio]

not on their hands.

Why not on their hands?

[ravergirl]

well, thats what happened in your example.

although, not to the thousands who pray, only to have people die right in front of them.

It isn't what happened in my example. You say example like I made it up.

I wish I had made it up. Don't you understand? You say miracle and I say curse. It was a healing, but it was NOT a miracle. No person should have that happen to them.

Why not?

Because it was wrong to ask from God in the first place.

[Agent. Mulder]

It isn't what happened in my example. You say example like I made it up.

I wish I had made it up. Don't you understand? You say miracle and I say curse. It was a healing, but it was NOT a miracle. No person should have that happen to them.

what? stigmata?

and no, i didnt say it like you made it up.

Because it was wrong to ask from God in the first place.

how so? its wrong to ask...but apparently god still gives. on some occassions.

[Doug1029]

Where are the right places?

Wrists and ankles. Hands and feet aren't strong enough to support the weight of the body when nailed to a cross.

Doug

[ravergirl]

what? stigmata?

and no, i didnt say it like you made it up.

how so? its wrong to ask...but apparently god still gives. on some occassions.

No stigmata has not happened to me. I used that as an example of very spiritual thiings that occur that may be unpleasant.

Because.....It was spiritually 'eating the apple.' I KNOW god exists. I cannot have faith God exists. They aren't the same thing.

[Agent. Mulder]

No stigmata has not happened to me. I used that as an example of very spiritual thiings that occur that may be unpleasant.

Because.....It was spiritually 'eating the apple.' I KNOW god exists. I cannot have faith God exists. They aren't the same thing.

oh, so they got it? where? in the hands and feet? And even on the head?

Edited November 11, 2008 by Agent. Mulder

[ravergirl]

oh, so they got it? where? in the hands and feet? And even on the head?

What are you talking about?

I don't know anyone who has had stigmata. Did you even read what I posted. Have you been arguing with me without knowing what I actually said?

[Agent. Mulder]

What are you talking about?

I don't know anyone who has had stigmata. Did you even read what I posted. Have you been arguing with me without knowing what I actually said?

you said No, you didnt have it. i was then under the impression you meant They had it or something. my bad.

ive been arguing with you about the other stuff, the deformed one you mentioned before. i then thought you said you knew someone with stigmata.

[ravergirl]

you said No, you didnt have it. i was then under the impression you meant They had it or something. my bad.

ive been arguing with you about the other stuff, the deformed one you mentioned before. i then thought you said you knew someone with stigmata.

If you want total honesty....If I did meet someone with stigmata, I would freak out entirely.

[Agent. Mulder]

Wrists and ankles. Hands and feet aren't strong enough to support the weight of the body when nailed to a cross.

Doug

exactly.

but for some reason, people claim they have stigmata in places that would not hold up the body on a cross.

also, the wrist can be Rediculously painful if the nail goes through the right part, causes more pain than the hand. which was the point of cruicifying someone. make them suffer as much as possible. and the people back then knew this.

[bleedingelite]

No stigmata has not happened to me. I used that as an example of very spiritual thiings that occur that may be unpleasant.

Because.....It was spiritually 'eating the apple.' I KNOW god exists. I cannot have faith God exists. They aren't the same thing.

No, that's what faith is. When you believe in something, it is the same to you as knowing. But it's not like God came down and said "Hey, here I am! Look at me for a while! Here is all the proper documentation and my license so you know I'm god." You just interpret whatever as evidence that god exists, which is an interpretation that requires faith to make.

[Doug1029]

exactly.

but for some reason, people claim they have stigmata in places that would not hold up the body on a cross.

also, the wrist can be Rediculously painful if the nail goes through the right part, causes more pain than the hand. which was the point of cruicifying someone. make them suffer as much as possible. and the people back then knew this.

I believe stigmata are a psychological effect and have more to do with the person's religious beliefs than with any outside influence.

I don't know about ravergirl's experience. I would want to know a lot more before jumping to conclusions.

Doug

[ravergirl]

No, that's what faith is. When you believe in something, it is the same to you as knowing. But it's not like God came down and said "Hey, here I am! Look at me for a while! Here is all the proper documentation and my license so you know I'm god." You just interpret whatever as evidence that god exists, which is an interpretation that requires faith to make.

So you have experience?

You have witnessed and un-televised healing?

or some other 'miracle'

I believe stigmata are a psychological effect and have more to do with the person's religious beliefs than with any outside influence.

I don't know about ravergirl's experience. I would want to know a lot more before jumping to conclusions.

Doug

well you are free to ask me.

[AlexG]

You obviously can't understand. Nor are you open. You should quit telling people that did and didn't happen to them.

I never said anything about what did or did not happen to you. I said that what you believe, because of whatever happened to you, is not evidence. It's just your belief.

And despite what you appear to think, because you believe something doesn't make it so.

[ravergirl]

I never said anything about what did or did not happen to you. I said that what you believe, because of whatever happened to you, is not evidence. It's just your belief.

And despite what you appear to think, because you believe something doesn't make it so.

things aren't divided into evidence and belief.

What happened to me happened to me, either you believe me or you don't....MY actuality, YOUR belief or disbelief.

[AlexG]

Just because what I say happened is a contridiction to your current beliefs doesn't make it untrue. It was a contridiction to my beliefs at the time.

if you want evidence allow for it to happen to you.

Some of you guys are going to ask God too many times for proof and you are going to get it, and it will destroy some of you.

Ravergirl, belief is not evidence. And that's what you've got here.

[ravergirl]

Ravergirl, belief is not evidence. And that's what you've got here.

did you pee this morning?

[Agent. Mulder]

did you pee this morning?

i Sure did. the coffee went Right through.

[AlexG]

things aren't divided into evidence and belief.

What happened to me happened to me, either you believe me or you don't....MY actuality, YOUR belief or disbelief.

I don't question what happened to you. It's the belief you gained I question. And only insofar as your belief is not evidence. Yes ravergirl evidence and belief are different things.

did you pee this morning?

Argument by non-sequitor. Impressive.

[ravergirl]

I don't question what happened to you. It's the belief you gained I question. And only insofar as your belief is not evidence. Yes ravergirl evidence and belief are different things.

Argument by non-sequitor. Impressive.

avoidance of question...amusing