prop 8

[SoulMatrix]

Over the last few days I have seen a rise in No on Prop 8 rallies and signs all over lawns in communities here across So-Cal. Days ago, supporters for NO on Prop 8 went into a christian conservative neighborhood of Temecula and took off all the Yes on 8 signs and hit up the walls in graffiti writing "NO ON 8". Shame..... it will just make more people vote YEs on 8. Because the fact they went and did that is very immature. And at work and wherever I go, Girls have came to me and seem to have pressured me or telling me why I should vote no on 8. Its getting very annoying and p***ing me off. Makes me want to vote Yes even more =).

Fact is...... Gay Couples already have the same rights as regular(man and woman) couples. Four Activists judges in San Francisco overturned the 61% of votes that we Californians voted on back in 2000. Who are they to overturn the vote behind our backs and without our decision? And why does the Gay Community have the power to change the definition of Marriage saying its "between two people"? Its not just between two people. Its between MAN and WOMAN in holy matrimony. Gay Couples can already get married. No rights aren't going to be taken away as those who are against it are saying. Its just when they get married its not going to be on paper or on the State Constitution.

Heres an Argument a fellow supporter of prop 8 made:

Quote "I love how the non-supporters of prop 8 say it has nothing to do with education. While this is true in retrospect, they neglect (like most people unfortunately do) think of the consequences of our actions such as gay marriage being in the state constitution. It had nothing to do with education in Mass. when they made gay marriage part of the state constitution there, but what were some children reported being taught in school? Take a wild guess. Were they parents given an option? Every one keeps saying this has nothing to do with religious freedom. It had nothing to do with religion when it was passed in mass., but what happened to the unfortunate Pastor who refused to marry a gay couple in Mass? Take a wild guess. WHAT HAPPENED TO RELIGIOUS FREEDOM? You know, the reason why our forefathers came to this country in the first place!? You do not even have to be "religious" to see the problem with that. He did not refuse out of discrimination, it simply would have been blasphemous to God because His Word says marriage is only to be between a man and a woman. If the Pastor does not go to a gay couples HOUSE (the church is his house) and force them to divorce because it is against HIS beliefs, than why should the reverse happen?"

People outside CA. Tell me what you think!!! Cause if this gets turned down, then the other states will soon be pressured into this same situation.

Btw Biden and Obama say that marriage should be between man and woman. But when Biden went on the Ellen Degenres show he said he would vote no on 8 if he was a californian. I'am starting to realize how weak and ignorant the left and liberals are and am beginning to open to new ideas and way of thinking. And might go for McCain afterall sadly.

Edited November 3, 2008 by SoulMatrix

[Splodgenessabounds]

If gays want to get married and be allowed to call it a marriage, let 'em. I don't see why there is such a big fuss over it.

Days ago, supporters for NO on Prop 8 went into a christian conservative neighborhood of Temecula and took off all the Yes on 8 signs and hit up the walls in graffiti writing "NO ON 8". Shame..... it will just make more people vote YEs on 8. Because the fact they went and did that is very immature.

People who do things like that annoy (for want of a word that is more blunt) me so much. Can someone tell me what they are actually achieving? It's like the people who bomb Abortion Clinics and Laboratories which do animal testing. All it does is create animosity towards their believes and if the California votes YES they have only themselves to blame.

[SoulMatrix]

If gays want to get married and be allowed to call it a marriage, let 'em. I don't see why there is such a big fuss over it.

People who do things like that annoy (for want of a word that is more blunt) me so much. Can someone tell me what they are actually achieving? It's like the people who bomb Abortion Clinics and Laboratories which do animal testing. All it does is create animosity towards their believes and if the California votes YES they have only themselves to blame.

ok maybe u missed the part where I Said: Four Activist Judges overturned the 61% votes californians made in 2000. It stated that Marriage is between Man and Woman. I don't know what society your living in but I sure the heck don't want Gays to change the definition of Marriage in which GOD created for Man and Woman to join in Holy Matrimony. I don't even think it should be up to us, the PEOPLE, to make this decision on whether we should put it in the constitution. Don't know how you Brits deal with the Gay Community over there. But America doesn't plan on becoming a Gay Nation anytime soon.

[BlindMessiah]

The people who did this should be arrested for theft and vandalism. As for the bill, if you support freedom, equality, and justice for all, vote no. The problem though, with voting no on proposition 8, is it merely prevents a negative. What we need is to get citizens active to get a proposition ready in as many states as possible, by 2010 or 2012, to pass into state constitutions, legalizing gay marriage. We can't stay on the defensive forever. We need to be more aggressive in protecting lady liberty.

[BlindMessiah]

ok maybe u missed the part where I Said: Four Activist Judges overturned the 61% votes californians made in 2000. It stated that Marriage is between Man and Woman.

An unconstitutional law.

I don't know what society your living in but I sure the heck don't want Gays to change the definition of Marriage in which GOD created for Man and Woman to join in Holy Matrimony. I don't even think it should be up to us, the PEOPLE, to make this decision on whether we should put it in the constitution.

Luckily we live in a secular society judge by rationality and reason, not a theocracy.

Don't know how you Brits deal with the Gay Community over there. But America doesn't plan on becoming a Gay Nation anytime soon.

I love how you word this: "deal with." As if they're some sort of sub-human pest. This is the sort of language people use when talking of a problem, not the basic civil liberties guaranteed to all citizens in the constitution. This would be on par with someone in the 1800s saying, "I don't know how you brits deal with your blacks, but America isn't planning on becoming a slave-free nation anytime soon.

[SilverCougar]

ok maybe u missed the part where I Said: Four Activist Judges overturned the 61% votes californians made in 2000. It stated that Marriage is between Man and Woman. I don't know what society your living in but I sure the heck don't want Gays to change the definition of Marriage in which GOD created for Man and Woman to join in Holy Matrimony. I don't even think it should be up to us, the PEOPLE, to make this decision on whether we should put it in the constitution. Don't know how you Brits deal with the Gay Community over there. But America doesn't plan on becoming a Gay Nation anytime soon.

Wow.. someone who needs a major wake up call in a bad way.

Edited November 3, 2008 by SilverCougar

[Splodgenessabounds]

If the Pastor does not go to a gay couples HOUSE (the church is his house) and force them to divorce because it is against HIS beliefs, than why should the reverse happen?

No argument there

ok maybe u missed the part where I Said: Four Activist Judges overturned the 61% votes californians made in 2000. It stated that Marriage is between Man and Woman

My apologies (christ I say that a lot on here ). The thing about the Judge's overturning the decision is wrong. No matter what side of the fence you're on if 61% of the people voted for the definition to be "between a man and a woman", then that's the way it should be until the people get to vote again.

I don't know what society your living in but I sure the heck don't want Gays to change the definition of Marriage in which GOD created for Man and Woman to join in Holy Matrimony.

I don't believe in God so that's a moot point for me.

Don't know how you Brits deal with the Gay Community over there.

In Britain, legislation came into force in December 2005 giving same-sex couples in registered partnerships similar rights to married couples, in areas such as pensions, property, social security, and housing. It's not considered a "marriage" though.

I just don't see the harm in changing the definition, I don't have any strong reason for that it's just the way I feel about it.

[BlindMessiah]

My apologies (christ I say that a lot on here ). The thing about the Judge's overturning the decision is wrong. No matter what side of the fence you're on if 61% of the people voted for the definition to be "between a man and a woman", then that's the way it should be until the people get to vote again.

I disagree. Our judges have the responsibility to overturn an unconstitutional law. Even if 99% of the US supports a law, if it goes against the constitution, it needs to be overturned. We aren't a democracy.

[Wickian]

If you want to keep the religious sanctities of marriage, then unless you ban all Atheists from getting married as well then the point of adding in "God made it this way" is moot.

Christians, Catholics, Jews and every other religion can refuse to do ceremonies for the gays if they want, but since marriage has become recognized by the State then it should make no difference if it's between a man/woman or man/man. It's still just two people.

[KyrusRose]

ok maybe u missed the part where I Said: Four Activist Judges overturned the 61% votes californians made in 2000. It stated that Marriage is between Man and Woman. I don't know what society your living in but I sure the heck don't want Gays to change the definition of Marriage in which GOD created for Man and Woman to join in Holy Matrimony. I don't even think it should be up to us, the PEOPLE, to make this decision on whether we should put it in the constitution. Don't know how you Brits deal with the Gay Community over there. But America doesn't plan on becoming a Gay Nation anytime soon.

Speak for yourself, Hitler, I'm ready to be part of a "gay nation" if that means equal rights. The fact is there is NOT logical reason to deny gays and lesbians the same rights as everyone else.. Just fear and hate, and while they might be human nature, they're not a good enough reason to repress anyone. Letting them get married does nothing to harm you, me, the government, the press, babies in Florida or my aunt Nel's fichus.

You know, tell me, what happened to the guy who wouldn't wed a gay couple? did the GOVERNMENT do something to him? Or his boss... That has NOTHING to do with me and you, and if he had a problem with it, he can take it to court.

(By the way, my aunt Nel's first name happens to be Gay >.>)

Edited November 3, 2008 by KyrusRose

[SoulMatrix]

Christian Conservatives vs Freethinking Liberals.

Heated Battle!

*ding ding ding**

[KyrusRose]

Christian Conservatives vs Freethinking Liberals.

Heated Battle!

*ding ding ding**

First point goes to the "Freethinking Liberals" -- This is NOT a Christian Nation

[BlindMessiah]

Christian Conservatives vs Freethinking Liberals.

Heated Battle!

*ding ding ding**

I'm not liberal. Belief in freedom and equality and REASON exists on both sides.

[Splodgenessabounds]

I disagree. Our judges have the responsibility to overturn an unconstitutional law. Even if 99% of the US supports a law, if it goes against the constitution, it needs to be overturned. We aren't a democracy.

I see what you mean. If 61% of the population voted for all black people to be shot the judges would overturn the decision which, don't get me wrong, is completely the right thing for the judges to do, so the same should apply to homosexuals. Good Point .

[SoulMatrix]

First point goes to the "Freethinking Liberals" -- This is NOT a Christian Nation

Tell that to Sarah Palin. Who voted along with her fellow alaskans to amend our constitution defining marriage as between one man and one woman.

“I'm not going to be out there judging individuals, sitting in a seat of judgment telling what they can and can't do, should and should not do,” she said. “But I certainly can express my own opinion here and take actions that I believe would be best for traditional marriage and that's casting my votes and speaking up for traditional marriage that, that instrument that it's the foundation of our society is that strong family and that's based on that traditional definition of marriage, so I do support that.”

Not that I'm supporting her.

[BlindMessiah]

Tell that to Sarah Palin. Who voted along with her fellow alaskans to amend our constitution defining marriage as between one man and one woman.

“I'm not going to be out there judging individuals, sitting in a seat of judgment telling what they can and can't do, should and should not do,” she said. “But I certainly can express my own opinion here and take actions that I believe would be best for traditional marriage and that's casting my votes and speaking up for traditional marriage that, that instrument that it's the foundation of our society is that strong family and that's based on that traditional definition of marriage, so I do support that.”

Not that I'm supporting her.

Sarah Palin is an bumbling idiot with a vile agenda. Her understanding of the world is on par with the extinct dinosaurs she claims we walked with five thousand years ago.

[SoulMatrix]

OK if we do legalize gay marriage we might as well legalize Marijuana in all of the US.

Bring on the Hippie ERA here in the US!

Homosexuality

Weed

Peace

Possession of Concealed Weapon.

RIGHT ON MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*sarcasism

[BlindMessiah]

OK if we do legalize gay marriage we might as well legalize Marijuana in all of the US.

Good. We can end this foolish war on drugs, clear out half of our prisons, and open up a new source of jobs and income in our nation.

Homosexuality

Weed

Peace

Possession of Concealed Weapon.

Ok, concealed weapons are legal, you just need a license. Peace isn't something you can legalize or outlaw. Homosexuality is legal in most places. Weed should be legal. I'm not seeing the problem. If the best argument against freedom you can present is mislabeling me as a hippie, I'm not concerned.

[Godsnmbr1]

Good. We can end this foolish war on drugs, clear out half of our prisons, and open up a new source of jobs and income in our nation.

Ok, concealed weapons are legal, you just need a license. Peace isn't something you can legalize or outlaw. Homosexuality is legal in most places. Weed should be legal. I'm not seeing the problem. If the best argument against freedom you can present is mislabeling me as a hippie, I'm not concerned.

Oh man, you completely missed his point and he even wrote "sarcasm"! You see, in SoulMatrix's backwards little bizarro world, marijuana is the source of all that is evil and when gay people get married the next thing they do is wage a holy war against all us straight folk. Didn't you know that Blind? When you let gay people get married, you're just saying that you want all straight people to die.

[KyrusRose]

Tell that to Sarah Palin. Who voted along with her fellow alaskans to amend our constitution defining marriage as between one man and one woman.

“I'm not going to be out there judging individuals, sitting in a seat of judgment telling what they can and can't do, should and should not do,” she said. “But I certainly can express my own opinion here and take actions that I believe would be best for traditional marriage and that's casting my votes and speaking up for traditional marriage that, that instrument that it's the foundation of our society is that strong family and that's based on that traditional definition of marriage, so I do support that.”

Not that I'm supporting her.

Point one was already made.. Palin is an idiot.

Point 2 - she also wants to outlaw sex education.. Oh yeah, Abstinence worked SO well for her family..

And point 3 - Not to mention shes being a total hypocrite in saying shes not trying to judge people or say what they can or can't do.. which is exactly what shes trying to do... is this is only HER opinion and she admits it. Its a FACT this is not a christian nation, and to even consider defining it as such is as much a breach of the constitution as outlawing gay marriages is. Its a shame someone that closed minded even has a chance at holding power.

OK if we do legalize gay marriage we might as well legalize Marijuana in all of the US.

Bring on the Hippie ERA here in the US!

Homosexuality

Weed

Peace

Possession of Concealed Weapon.

RIGHT ON MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*sarcasism

Sure.. I know a LOT of children who would rather have pot smoking parents then drunks. Right now you can get legal sleeping pills over the counter that are just as damaging.. why not legalize the real stuff? BlindMessiah Said it perfectly.

Good. We can end this foolish war on drugs, clear out half of our prisons, and open up a new source of jobs and income in our nation.

Though I don't know many pot heads that go around shooting people... drunks on the other hand.. Wait.. Beer is Legal? Dang!

Oh and SoulMatrix, you still have yet to tell me how a gay marriage would harm you or anyone else in the world. There is still no logical reason to deny them.. got one? I'm not being condescending.. I really do want to know if I'm missing something.

[BlindMessiah]

Oh man, you completely missed his point and he even wrote "sarcasm"!

Nah, I simply ignored it. He was presenting it as bad, I get that. My point is, he's trying to horrify me with my own talking points.

Didn't you know that Blind? When you let gay people get married, you're just saying that you want all straight people to die.

Damn, I didn't know that.

[BlindMessiah]

I really do want to know if I'm missing something.

Nothing you won't be better off without.

[KyrusRose]

Nothing you won't be better off without.

Heeyy talking about politics here, not my gray matter.

[BlindMessiah]

Heeyy talking about politics here, not my gray matter.

Ummm... I meant politics. Ya know, like you'll be better off without understanding his position. Ya...

[KyrusRose]

SoulMatrix Are you going to say any of that in the thread or just leave it to PMs? Well how about this, because I'm not ashamed of what I am, and I don't need a bible to tell me how to live.

I am WICCAN... I flaming bi sexual dancing naked flowers in her hair witch.. or whatever other stereotype you want to lay on me. I've never lived a day of my life by the bible, but have suffered MANY times because of it. I grew up with both pot and booze.. and when you're a kid and HOPING your folks are going to get high and not drunk so you don't get beat, it changes the way you look at pot. I've never TRIED it, but have experienced, first hand, what it can do. Have you?

As for being bad for your health.. Almost every culture on earth has smoked some form of of the stuff... and so far the only ill effect is when politics get involved.. you know how pot causes gun crimes? When it is illegal, people are willing to kill each other to get it.. willing to kill each other for the money it bring.. Its the legal aspect that kills people, not the drug itself.

Now, back to the issue at hand.. I don't give a flaming flop about the bible.. give me a REAL reason not to legalize gay marriage.. Tell me how its going to harm someone.. not even the bible can tell you that, cause its not there to tell.