prop 8

[The Silver Thong]

I must be thick or something. I don't understand some people's views on gay marriage. Why not just let them have it and be done with it. How is someone who is gay and getting married affect anyone else's life in any possible way ?? Oh ya an out dated religion and stereo types sheesh all this over something that shouldn't even be an issue.

[+Sherapy]

I must be thick or something. I don't understand some people's views on gay marriage. Why not just let them have it and be done with it. How is someone who is gay and getting married affect anyone else's life in any possible way ?? Oh ya an out dated religion and stereo types sheesh all this over something that shouldn't even be an issue.

well then I am also Silver, ..marriage has harmed itself the divorce rate is at least 60 percent....we can't pin this on the gays.. lol ;

[mklsgl]

I don't give a damn about their own personal opinion. There political actions oppose freedom and the constitution. I can't support someone in good conscious unless they are actively trying to legalize gay marriage. As I said earlier, their constituency is irrelevant here. We aren't a democracy. We don't remove rights in the name of mob rule. In addition, if those three are so concerned with the personal opinion of their constituents, why did they vote for the bail out when the US population opposed it 100-1.

I agree with you, Blind Messiah! Gay Marriage should be legal and embraced. I was simply attempting to explain something which I now know that you already understand. And, the answer to your question is the quintessential problem with politics in the US!

[KyrusRose]

I must be thick or something. I don't understand some people's views on gay marriage. Why not just let them have it and be done with it. How is someone who is gay and getting married affect anyone else's life in any possible way ?? Oh ya an out dated religion and stereo types sheesh all this over something that shouldn't even be an issue.

You know I've asked that question at least 20 times on these forums and never.. not even ONCE got an answer.. because the fact is there is no good answer. And I say fact... and mean it. No source, no quotes, no data... because no one is willing to provide any. Anyone up for the challenge?

[lordstanley]

Everyone should be able to be happy in their lives! Even though most marriages

don't work out now a day's, but besides that factor, everyone should be able to

have a spouse if they so choose!

[BlindMessiah]

You know I've asked that question at least 20 times on these forums and never.. not even ONCE got an answer.. because the fact is there is no good answer. And I say fact... and mean it. No source, no quotes, no data... because no one is willing to provide any. Anyone up for the challenge?

I asked this question to someone against it earlier today. Wow... just wow. Here was what they said.

"If we legalize gay marriage, the number of children born will go down. If the population decreases, Muslims will come to America and fill in for the missing jobs. Then the Muslims will have lots of kids and we'll get taken over. That's what caused the United Kingdom to fall last year."

First I gave a "wtf" stare over the UK comment, and then I replied, "If gay marriage isn't legalized, gay people will have kids? If not, then legal or not, the population size wouldn't be affected."

She finished the conversation off with this gem, "If gay marriage is legalized, more and more people will start choosing to be gay."

Edited November 5, 2008 by BlindMessiah

[Fluffybunny]

I asked this question to someone against it earlier today. Wow... just wow. Here was what they said.

She finished the conversation off with this gem, "If gay marriage is legalized, more and more people will start choosing to be gay."

I have heard that one before...

This is my logic on this one...I am straight. I am not opposed, or bothered by homosexuality, It doesnt bother me...but I am pretty confident in what I am. I think people should be able to be happy gay or straight. I think that there is no way that anyone would ever choose to be gay, and all of the problems that can go along with trying to fit in as a younger person in school...all of the issues that come up that make life difficult for folks that are gay, I just dont think anyone would willingly choose that, not that it is wrong, or bad, but that it is difficult at times. I wouldnt ever think that I could "choose to be gay" it isnt an option. for the folks that come up with these gems, I can only assume with them, that it is an option and it bothers them...

[Vampwitchenstein]

I asked this question to someone against it earlier today. Wow... just wow. Here was what they said.

"If we legalize gay marriage, the number of children born will go down. If the population decreases, Muslims will come to America and fill in for the missing jobs. Then the Muslims will have lots of kids and we'll get taken over. That's what caused the United Kingdom to fall last year."

First I gave a "wtf" stare over the UK comment, and then I replied, "If gay marriage isn't legalized, gay people will have kids? If not, then legal or not, the population size wouldn't be affected."

She finished the conversation off with this gem, "If gay marriage is legalized, more and more people will start choosing to be gay."

Wow. Link? Because yes, I like to read stuff that makes my brain feel like it's a toxic acid melting out my ears and eyes.

PS: I am also waiting for the result of Cali's vote to decide if I am going to go into a closet so I can come out of it or not.

Edited November 5, 2008 by BlondiGeist

[Lt_Ripley]

don't worry. sooner or later things will change. People become educated and outdated religious views fall to the wayside or religion dies. ( just like we can no longer keep slaves)

Changes are happening. Could this 30 or 40 years ago even been a topic of discussion let alone on the ballot ? another 10 to 20 years and those who are ignorant and passed 8 will be a minority. Wisdom and level headed educated thinking will have taken it's place. Paranoia and ignorance has no place in civilized society.

[AROCES]

People become educated and outdated religious views fall to the wayside or religion dies. ( just like we can no longer keep slaves)

You mean your kind of education, say it as it is.

And stop exploiting the past that many have already have moved on from.

Edited November 5, 2008 by AROCES

[Lt_Ripley]

You mean your kind of education, say it as it is.

And stop exploiting the past that many have already have moved on from.

no. education. period. what you have is delusion .

[BlindMessiah]

don't worry. sooner or later things will change. People become educated and outdated religious views fall to the wayside or religion dies. ( just like we can no longer keep slaves)

Changes are happening. Could this 30 or 40 years ago even been a topic of discussion let alone on the ballot ? another 10 to 20 years and those who are ignorant and passed 8 will be a minority. Wisdom and level headed educated thinking will have taken it's place. Paranoia and ignorance has no place in civilized society.

Here's the problem. Sure it was on the ballot, but voting yes outlaws it, and voting no does nothing. Where is the proposition to constitutionally legalize it?

[MasterPo]

Gay marriage is wrong and I'm not saying that on any grounds of faith. What two (or more) consenting adults do behind closed doors I can handle. But I draw the line at society being made to legalize it.

[ninjadude]

Gay marriage is wrong and I'm not saying that on any grounds of faith. What two (or more) consenting adults do behind closed doors I can handle. But I draw the line at society being made to legalize it.

ok I'll bite. Why is it wrong in your opinion? You've said not on faith grounds. What grounds are you using? Because it makes you feel icky? Does it demean your marriage somehow (if you are)? If it's wrong, show us why. I'm really interested.

[MasterPo]

ok I'll bite. Why is it wrong in your opinion? You've said not on faith grounds. What grounds are you using? Because it makes you feel icky? Does it demean your marriage somehow (if you are)? If it's wrong, show us why. I'm really interested.

Homosecuality is against the natural function of nature, i.e. reproduction.

Don't bother linking to articles that show this fish or that deer has been seen getting it on with the same sex too. Those have been shown to be genetic aboritions or quirks of nature. Far from the norm.

You are asking society today to not only justify but legalize something that no society anywhere in the world at any time as done. Yes, I know it was frequent in some ancient cultures but they didn't legalize it either. In fact, acceptance (with a blind eye) was a method of population control for very legitimate reasons like food supply. But not legalized.

[The Wandering Star]

ok I'll bite. Why is it wrong in your opinion? You've said not on faith grounds. What grounds are you using? Because it makes you feel icky? Does it demean your marriage somehow (if you are)? If it's wrong, show us why. I'm really interested.

I'm not bashing gay marriage or anything... matter of fact, it's a-ok in my books, but by technicality it is in fact, wrong. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the concept of marriage invented for a man and a woman? In that sense it's wrong, because they've deviated away from the original concept, but morally, who are we to say what's right and what's wrong?

[MasterPo]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the concept of marriage invented for a man and a woman? In that sense it's wrong, because they've deviated away from the original concept,

That is the crux of the gay marriage support argument - that marriage shouldn't just be between a man and a woman; That such a POV is faith based and therefore extreme.

[ninjadude]

Homosecuality is against the natural function of nature, i.e. reproduction.

ok. that's an argument. But we do lots of things that are against the natural function of nature. We build cities, have sex because it feels good, dye our hair, pollute the atmosphere, till the land, build roads, use up resouces, destroy entire species, go to the moon, etc. Nature is pretty chaotic.

(and it's not always against. Some (many? idk) gay couples do have children via adoption or insemination.

Which natural functions of nature do we follow and which ones do we ignore?

[MasterPo]

ok. that's an argument. But we do lots of things that are against the natural function of nature. We build cities, have sex because it feels good, dye our hair, pollute the atmosphere, till the land, build roads, use up resouces, destroy entire species, go to the moon, etc. Nature is pretty chaotic.

While humans are pretty good (or bad depending on your POV) at all those, it is in no way unique to humans.

Other animals build huge communities out of natural items (like the giant termite mounds in Africa).

It has been shown that Chimps and Dolphins will engage in sex regularly even when a female isn't capable of conceiving.

Other animals change their appearance.

All animals give off some kind of waste that is a pollutant to them but usually food for something else.

Others consume resources then move on even at the risk of completely devistating a location.

I'll grant you the roads and the moon though.

[ninjadude]

I'm not bashing gay marriage or anything... matter of fact, it's a-ok in my books, but by technicality it is in fact, wrong. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the concept of marriage invented for a man and a woman? In that sense it's wrong, because they've deviated away from the original concept, but morally, who are we to say what's right and what's wrong?

Historically wrong maybe. But then many institutions in society change over time. Do you still own slaves? Do you still pray to god idols in your house? Do you go to public bath houses? Do you have intercourse with anyone of lower station in life? Deviation is not necessarily wrong. It's a deviation. Then you ask about morals. Who do we have to be? Do you get your morals from someone else? What is their basis for morality? Is that basis the same for everyone in a free society like America? Because if it's not (and I know it isn't) then you have to allow a completely moral position diametrically opposed to what you think is right about gay marriage (and many other issues).

[MasterPo]

But then many institutions in society change over time. Do you still own slaves? Do you still pray to god idols in your house? Do you go to public bath houses? Do you have intercourse with anyone of lower station in life? Deviation is not necessarily wrong. It's a deviation. Then you ask about morals. Who do we have to be? Do you get your morals from someone else? What is their basis for morality? Is that basis the same for everyone in a free society like America? Because if it's not (and I know it isn't) then you have to allow a completely moral position diametrically opposed to what you think is right about gay marriage (and many other issues).

By that same thinking let's legalize robbery. It's been around for soooo long about time we accepted it as a fact of life.

[ninjadude]

By that same thinking let's legalize robbery. It's been around for soooo long about time we accepted it as a fact of life.

You could say that but robber is not a societal institution. Of course, by your logic, the government is legally already stealing from you.

[BlindMessiah]

You could say that but robber is not a societal institution. Of course, by your logic, the government is legally already stealing from you.

Well technically that's what any form of taxation is. However unless he supports removing all taxes, he has no argument there.

[MasterPo]

You could say that but robber is not a societal institution. Of course, by your logic, the government is legally already stealing from you.

There's a big difference between a social custom and an institution.

The former is a tradition while the latter is government sanctioned and often promoted.

[KyrusRose]

While humans are pretty good (or bad depending on your POV) at all those, it is in no way unique to humans.

Other animals build huge communities out of natural items (like the giant termite mounds in Africa).

It has been shown that Chimps and Dolphins will engage in sex regularly even when a female isn't capable of conceiving.

Other animals change their appearance.

All animals give off some kind of waste that is a pollutant to them but usually food for something else.

Others consume resources then move on even at the risk of completely devistating a location.

I'll grant you the roads and the moon though.

Then there is the argument that there are animals in nature who have homosexual relationships, some for life. There are birds who will steal another nests egg and raise it with a homosexual partner. Nature does find a way. If building termite mounds and engaging in recreational sex is natural, then it can be argued that homosexuality is natural as well.