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Karlis

A Black President for USA

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Mr  Honeybadger

Didn't the Supreme Court recently decide that the DC gun ban was UnConstitutional ?

That tells me that gun ownership is Constitutional.

That's also why I bought my last handgun from a gun show. It's none of the government's business if and how many firearms I own.

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Karlis
I will amend what I said.

It can work, but there are a ton of cons. I rather be able to pick my own healthcare, my own doctors, not have to wait for procedures. Plus that will mean another increase in taxes. Is it fair for someone, say a non-smoker to pay for someone who is sick from smoking?

Hi PhoenixDown (and others interested in this specific point),

I edited my post #105 on page 7 and added copy-pasted excerpts from Obama's policies.

If you may be interested, check out Obama's website links there also.

Kind regards,

Karlis

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Sweetpumper
Didn't the Supreme Court recently decide that the DC gun ban was UnConstitutional ?

That tells me that gun ownership is Constitutional.

That's also why I bought my last handgun from a gun show. It's none of the government's business if and how many firearms I own.

I'll be buying another couple of firearms by the end of the week. Just in case. :)

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LogicalPiccolo
Leonardo, yours is "a voice of sanity and reason", as far as the Constitution is concerned. I wonder how many American citizens really understand what you wrote? ;)

Kind regards,

Karlis

I'm curious exactly what you meant by this.

I fully understand was Leo was saying. My intention wasn't to get into a debate of semantics. Obviously there has always been confusion amongst the meaning behind many of our amendments, that is why we have judges. It has been ruled before that we have the right to own arms, in our homes, whenever we choose. That is our right, given to us, not just by the Constitution but by the American Judicial System.

Even if in the event that Constitution only promised our protection to use arms to form a militia...my argument was that if that were the case, and we were NOT guaranteed the right to OWN firearms...then whose responsibility would it be to enforce the promise of available arms? If we were under Governmental abuse, who is going to ensure our right to bare arms and protect ourselves against them is enforced; if, in all reality, we are not promised the ability to purchase and own our own firearms outright?

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PhoenixDown
Is it fair that a poorer person can't afford the chemotherapy that saves their lives? Health care should be a right not a privilege.

No, I agree with you in a lot of ways. I think I just disagree with how to go about it.

I had an un-expected pregnancy. We had to take out a loan to pay for my medical bills, C-section, hospital stay, etc. $10,000 dollars in debt later we are really blessed with a wonderful little boy. But, it ticks me off that people who come to the country illegally or those that do nothing but sit on their butts when they are capable of working can get free healthcare, but citizens that work their butts off and pay taxes to pay for that can't. However, I don't believe that government run healthcare is the right way to go. I don't have the answers, but I know I do not want big government.

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Pandora.
(Qoais @ Nov 5 2008, 07:33 AM)

Congratulations to Barack Obama and to the USA.

Anyone that has been watching from the sidelines, from other countries is impressed. There were a lot of celebration parties here in Canada, and I know there was also in Australia.

Why??? :blink:

You can choose to feign disinterest & ignore the importance of this election all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that this is a historical moment for the US and for the rest of the world!

Regardless of Obama the man, or his policies, that the US elected its first black president is wonderful & deeply important.

We all know that all human beings are born equal, that racism should be a dark chapter in the evolution of human history and play no part in choosing a politician, but we also all know that the reality is different.

Obama's election has shattered that glass ceiling, and is giving hope to all of us that humanity can & will change.

Congratulations US & Obama

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PhoenixDown
Hi PhoenixDown (and others interested in this specific point),

I edited my post #105 on page 7 and added copy-pasted excerpts from Obama's policies.

If you may be interested, check out Obama's website links there also.

Kind regards,

Karlis

Yes, I see what his website says. However, I also have to take into consideration things he has said in debates and in speeches - which is not always in agreement with his website.

Then we get back to this - if everything he says on his website are his true policies on things, how is he going to afford all of that???

Edited by PhoenixDown

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LogicalPiccolo
Yes, I see what his website says. However, I also have to take into consideration things he has said in debates and in speeches - which is not always in agreement with his website.

Then we get back to this - if everything he says on his website are his true policies on things, how is he going to afford all of that???

Taxes of course. He's said it himself.

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The Silver Thong
Yes, I see what his website says. However, I also have to take into consideration things he has said in debates and in speeches - which is not always in agreement with his website.

Then we get back to this - if everything he says on his website are his true policies on things, ???

For one get out of Iraq. :P

As far as healthcare the U.S. is the only one of all the first world nations not to have universal healthcare, it does work, honest.

Hmm is the u.s. the only one hmmm

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PhoenixDown
Taxes of course. He's said it himself.

That's my point...and his idea of what the middle class is changes every time he talks about it lately.

Higher taxes is not going to improve the economy.

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Karlis
I'm curious exactly what you meant by this.

I fully understand was Leo was saying. My intention wasn't to get into a debate of semantics. Obviously there has always been confusion amongst the meaning behind many of our amendments, that is why we have judges. It has been ruled before that we have the right to own arms, in our homes, whenever we choose. That is our right, given to us, not just by the Constitution but by the American Judicial System.

Even if in the event that Constitution only promised our protection to use arms to form a militia...my argument was that if that were the case, and we were NOT guaranteed the right to OWN firearms...then whose responsibility would it be to enforce the promise of available arms? If we were under Governmental abuse, who is going to ensure our right to bare arms and protect ourselves against them is enforced; if, in all reality, we are not promised the ability to purchase and own our own firearms outright?

Hi LogicalPiccolo -- I will have to learn to bite my fingers before I click the "post" button! ^_^

Since this subject is completely and utterly off-topic, I should not have replied to this Leonardo's post in the first place.

I need my knuckles rapped with a ruler. :blush:

Let's leave the gun-issue for another topic-thread.

Karlis

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danielost

I just hope we got a good man for the job and not as I think a bad man for the job. I don't care about the skin color.

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Karlis
Yes, I see what his website says. However, I also have to take into consideration things he has said in debates and in speeches - which is not always in agreement with his website.

Then we get back to this - if everything he says on his website are his true policies on things, how is he going to afford all of that???

Yes PhoenixDown -- when the crowds stop their dancing in the streets, they may well ask Obama similar questions.

My guess is that only then we will find out if the USA has a statesman or an Elmer Gantry for a President.

Kind regards,

Karlis

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Space Commander Travis
Abortion

Taxes

Healthcare

Iraq

Foreign Policy

Ecomony

If you want more detail I will message you instead of derailing the thread.

A succinct summary of Bush's greatest mistakes, certainly.

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LogicalPiccolo
You can choose to feign disinterest & ignore the importance of this election all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that this is a historical moment for the US and for the rest of the world!

Regardless of Obama the man, or his policies, that the US elected its first black president is wonderful & deeply important.

We all know that all human beings are born equal, that racism should be a dark chapter in the evolution of human history and play no part in choosing a politician, but we also all know that the reality is different.

Obama's election has shattered that glass ceiling, and is giving hope to all of us that humanity can & will change.

Congratulations US & Obama

While I agree with you on many aspects, as, as an historical moment this is big and definitely does speak volumes.

But, to know that reality is different on racism? Says who? Now granted, it is very possible I'm just privileged to have lived in a state where racial issues are not usually predominant ones. (Nevada) I have never personally witnessed racism in my state, accept by military people who came here from other places. (Possible hearing a slur tossed here and there.) But I've never personally witnessed someone being mistreated because of the color of their skin. That is honest, down-to-earth, MY reality, and it does not include racial discrimination. The only "race" that MAYBE would claim they are under privileged in comparison to the rest of the state is the Native Americans. And even that is very rare.

What bothers me, is the way this is being portrayed. (As Phoenix was saying...) People seem to be flat out WORSHIPING this man. There are sites out there right now like "Obama for Messiah" and blogs about it all over. It's incredibly bizarre. I'm curious, considering the my ancestry Irish and Native American solely. Irish people of long ago, were put through slavery...along side even the African Americans in the Caribbean. The received the same signs on stores when the arrived here, "We do not serve Irish" or "No Irish Allowed". They were expected to work for dirt, and went through just as many hardships as many black ancestors of this country did. Don't believe me? Look it up. You'll be surprised.

But I doubt if an American born (possibly questionable) half-irish half-other white nationality presidential candidate were to receive the presidency, that they would be showing camera shots of pubs, villages, and cities in Ireland of people rejoicing. I doubt anyone would be talking about how liberating this move is for Irish people, nor how much it has changed the course of history. And you know why that wouldn't happen? Because of the color of an Irish man's skin. Race goes hand in hand, but it only means positive progression when it appeals to the squeakiest wheel on the cart. Because you don't still hear Irish people complaining about anything horrible they were put through in early America. And because they don't make enough ruckus, they don't get any credit for how they've struggled or conquered the racial profiling and repression in this country. Though they shouldn't need to, because it was a long time ago and the citizens of now should not be blamed for the citizens of old. We have evolved past that. Or at least, I always thought so. Maybe not.

Everyone is saying now how much more equal this makes the table. But does it really? Quite frankly as far as racial inequality goes, in most parts of the country, I'll believe it more should there ever be a Mexican president elected...as far as racial profiling goes in today's America, Mexicans have it far worse. (Again, this is from my own observations...)

Edited by LogicalPiccolo

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LogicalPiccolo
That's my point...and his idea of what the middle class is changes every time he talks about it lately.

Higher taxes is not going to improve the economy.

No, you are right.

It will instead be a cancer that kills our Capitalist, Democratic Republic from the inside out. As people start losing more and more of their hard earned money, it will become more apparent of how harmful it will be.

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Andiepanda

I would just like to say on the issue of race: I am from Texas, and I have seen lots of racism in my life. I've heard slurs, seen teasing and bullying, and it sickens me. Today I heard a black woman say that now she could look down at her young son and say, "Yes, you CAN be president someday. No more limitations." as she started to cry. If you don't live in a racially-charged part of this country (or if you don't live in the US) then you don't understand what an amazing revelation this is for african-americans. They have the hope and reinforcement that if they try they CAN achieve their dreams, despite being told they can't by the people who discriminate against them their whole lives! And I am so proud of them for voting (many for the first time in their lives) and so proud of the rest of America for electing him! My own father said that he never dreamed that he would get to see a black man elected president and he's so happy. This is really a changing point for America and I hope we can all finally pull together and make it truly the greatest country in the world.

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danielost
I would just like to say on the issue of race: I am from Texas, and I have seen lots of racism in my life. I've heard slurs, seen teasing and bullying, and it sickens me. Today I heard a black woman say that now she could look down at her young son and say, "Yes, you CAN be president someday. No more limitations." as she started to cry. If you don't live in a racially-charged part of this country (or if you don't live in the US) then you don't understand what an amazing revelation this is for african-americans. They have the hope and reinforcement that if they try they CAN achieve their dreams, despite being told they can't by the people who discriminate against them their whole lives! And I am so proud of them for voting (many for the first time in their lives) and so proud of the rest of America for electing him! My own father said that he never dreamed that he would get to see a black man elected president and he's so happy. This is really a changing point for America and I hope we can all finally pull together and make it truly the greatest country in the world.

Only if those on both sides who are trying to pull us apart will stop.

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Mattshark
A succinct summary of Bush's greatest mistakes, certainly.

:tu: Sounds about right. You forgot education. The man actually supported teaching ID.

He did a lot of harm for America's international standing.

Edited by Mattshark

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BlindMessiah
I am not an american and don't pay attention alot to politics, so sorry for my ignorance

Would people react the same thing if Obama was Asian, or Arab, or gay... muslim, native american or any other minority group?

Hopefully someday, but not right now.

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BlindMessiah
*pedant alert*

Neither 'guns', per se, nor the ownership of them are 'protected' by the Constitution. The freedom of the people to bear arms so as to be able to form an armed militia (standing or otherwise) in case of Governmental or foreign abuse of American freedoms otherwise protected by the Constitution is granted as a right by the document. This has been interpreted by the powerful pro-gun lobby and the judiciary sympathetic to them to mean 'the freedom to own a gun is American by right'. It is this interpretation that is being disputed, not the right for there to be an armed militia. While the point might seem moot, if the person wishing to own a gun has not volunteered to be part of said militia then, according to the Constitution, that person's 'right' to own a gun does not exist.

/*pedant alert*

I'm aware that many are arguing the interpretation, but there are others who wish to remove the amendment altogether. In addition, I would argue that we are in need of granting further gun rights within the constitution if the current language does not guarantee them. In the same way I wish to pass a national amendment legalizing gay marriage. So while some may argue over whether the constitution currently grants the license to own a gun, I would argue that whether it does or does not, we should actively seek to additionally amend it so gun ownership is fully allowed. Likewise as I said before, I argue that my interpretation of amendment 14 prevents our government from outlawing gay marriage, but should amendment 14 not be ruled to be interpreted in such a way, we are in need of a new amendment guaranteeing that right.

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BlindMessiah
Didn't the Supreme Court recently decide that the DC gun ban was UnConstitutional ?

That tells me that gun ownership is Constitutional.

That's also why I bought my last handgun from a gun show. It's none of the government's business if and how many firearms I own.

As you should be allowed. Other similar issues are marijuana and gambling; we are in need of laws protecting or creating these rights.

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Luziadus

I have a feeling that Obama will not end his mandate,someone will kill him as some politics did with Kennedy,remember that Obama will have to change politics inside banks area and economy,so a lot of powerull people will not like it,and can pay to kill him.

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AROCES
I have a feeling that Obama will not end his mandate,someone will kill him as some politics did with Kennedy,remember that Obama will have to change politics inside banks area and economy,so a lot of powerull people will not like it,and can pay to kill him.

I don't think so, assasinating any leader will only make his cause stronger.

But there could be some lunatic out there who might pull a stunt, like what happend to Reagan.

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MID
Just assuming:

What will be the consequences in America of the USA having the first black President?

How will this impact on the world?

Kind regards,

Karlis

A "black" President will have no consequence, and it shouldn't.

Black is not a factor.

It's the man's policies and actions which will have an impact. That is the worry with this particular President.

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