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Bogeyman

Congratulations America

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The Silver Thong
Wow ....I was only saying congratulations !

Anyhoo.....A couple of retorts if i may.

To those saying that Iraq was a mess caused by Europe that America had to sort out ...... :huh: Do some more research , here's a clue on where to start...use the key words, george Bush Snr , The CIA and Iraq......nuff said on that.

For those of you using FOX news as a source :lol: C'mon for god sake .......Start here

http://www.turnoffyourtv.com/networks/foxnews/foxnews.html

Anyway all that aside , i still say congratulations America , and now that he's there why not row in behind him.As someone else said he will not achieve everything and people will be dissapointed , but his election shows OUR capacity for positive change as a species.....and thats a giant leap for mankind. It's the gesture that will inspire .....we hope and pray

Way to go Bogeydude, see what you started :P

Europe caused all the trouble in Iraq ? Ok thats news to me lol.

Feeling any better today Eggy?

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eqgumby
I've heard of reading between the lines before, but this sort of interpretation borders on out-and-out divination. I mean, I didn't even know I believed that.*

And, coincidentally enough, the pronoun to use here is "he". "/He/ thinks everyone should have free health-care..."

--Jaylemurph

No worse than you repeatedly telling me I believe something I never said, right? That's fair, don't you think?

Any one STILL interested in what actually started this stupidity, or will no one address the "Americans dying in the streets because they have no health insurance" issue?

Probably not, because that wouldn't serve the agenda. Naturally.

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jaylemurph
No worse than you repeatedly telling me I believe something I never said, right? That's fair, don't you think?

Let's end this, shall we?

Absolute BS. People do not die in the streets! That's a lie! Period!

You backed away from it as soon as you realised you couldn't pawn that off on those of us who had seen it happen, but there it is in black and white.

And no, I don't think accusing me of being an obese, unemployed drug addict is on the same level as saying you said something you didn't.

--Jaylemurph

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eqgumby
Way to go Bogeydude, see what you started :P

Europe caused all the trouble in Iraq ? Ok thats news to me lol.

Feeling any better today Eggy?

I don't know, any one willing to answer the question of the false statements and beliefs attributed to me, or want to answer the original question? Probably not, since they were lies.

Hmm, I wonder if European history had any impact on what goes on in the middle-east today? Oddly enough, there is no plan by the US to permanently occupy the middle-east, as there was in the 1900's by other governments.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issue...ritishindex.htm

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/oil/2...1000history.htm

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/globalconnections/...text/time3.html

http://en.internationalism.org/book/export/html/729

Today in 1993 there are still Iraqis and Kurds who remember being bombed and machine-gunned by the RAF in the 1920s. A Kurd from the Korak mountains commented, seventy years after the event: 'They were bombing here in the Kaniya Khoran � Sometimes they raided three times a day.' Wing Commander Lewis, then of 30 Squadron (RAF), Iraq, recalls how quite often 'one would get a signal that a certain Kurdish village would have to be bombed�', the RAF pilots being ordered to bomb any Kurd who looked hostile. In the same vein, Squadron-Leader Kendal of 30 Squadron recalls that 'if the tribespeople were doing something they ought not be doing then you shot them.'

Similarly, Wing-Commander Gale, also of 30 Squadron: 'If the Kurds hadn't learned by our example to behave themselves in a civilised way then we had to spank their bottoms. This was done by bombs and guns'. Wing-Commander Sir Arthur Harris (later Bomber Harris, head of wartime Bomber Command) was happy to emphasise that 'The Arab and Kurd now know what real bombing means in casualties and damage. Within forty-five minutes a full-size village can be practically wiped out and a third of its inhabitants killed or injured.' It was an easy matter to bomb and machine-gun the tribespeople, because they had no means of defence or retaliation. Iraq and Kurdistan were also useful laboratories for new weapons; devices specifically developed by the Air Ministry for use against tribal villages. The ministry drew up a list of possible weapons, some of them the forerunners of napalm and air-to-ground missiles:

Phosphorus bombs, war rockets, metal crowsfeet [to maim livestock] man-killing shrapnel, liquid fire, delayed-action bombs. Many of these weapons were first used in Kurdistan".

Hugh Trenchard, the RAF's chief of staff between 1919 and 1927 mentioned earlier, submitted a report to the Cabinet shortly after the RAF had temporarily quelled anti-British unrest in Iraqi Kurdistan.1 Trenchard reported that Churchill had first employed aerial bombardment against Iraq's Kurds as a means of finding "some cheaper form of control". Trenchard enthusiastically endorsed the verdict of the British High Commissioner for Iraq that "a free and vigorous use of � aerial resources" had proven to both highly potent and cost-effective. The RAF chief of staff concluded prophetically:

Edited to add:

The more I think about it, the more stunned I am about how ignorant people are, how they believe Iran or Iraq were just there hanging out for hundreds of years, and the US just decided to attack one day. Look into the history of these places. You'll see they are less responsible for the mess they are in than the western world is.

Edited by eqgumby

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The Silver Thong

From people dying in the streets of America to who want's control of the middle east from what time period who cares is this about history of the middle east? I'm confused lol

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eqgumby
Let's end this, shall we?

You backed away from it as soon as you realised you couldn't pawn that off on those of us who had seen it happen, but there it is in black and white.

And no, I don't think accusing me of being an obese, unemployed drug addict is on the same level as saying you said something you didn't.

--Jaylemurph

Let's go ahead and include my full quote, instead of you just editing at your leisure. Do you want to go back and see what that post was in response to also?

You're way out of line. You misquote me and tell me what I believe based on that, and yet I am some how the "bad-guy" here?

Sorry, did I call you an obese unemployed drug addict? Would you like to misquote me and some how imply that I said "Jay is an obese unemployed drug addict"?

I think I'll go TROLL through your posts and cut-and-paste your comments to suit me, much like you have done to me, and I am sure you do to others as well. As a matter of fact, this "cherry-picking" attitude is something conservatives and liberals are guilty of. Personally, I TRY to avoid that activity and recognize it when I see it. Believing everything you see or hear from Hannity is as bad as doing the same with Randi Rhodes.

Below is my post you so clearly hacked.

Absolute BS. People do not die in the streets! That's a lie! Period! Show me ONE!! And I'm not talking about an un-insured crack-addict or a homeless guy who drinks Sterno! I already explained that there are people that are ill that should get care and don't, but this other crap about people dying in the street is FAKE! No one crawls to a hospital and is refused entry while they die outside the doors. No one!

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Sherapy
I do agree that the war on drugs is a waste of money, resources, and is just dumb. Look how quick Boston was to want to make the new Marijuana law retroactive. They feel it'll save like 3 million a year in law enforcement for possession of an ounce or less of marijuana.

You do realize the vast majority of those people just don't want education. That's not mean spirited that's just true. Education especially if you want a career requires studying, learning, work, and dedication. Allot of people are lazy or would rather blame someone else or their parents or grand parents because they didn't instill it into them.

This world isn't utopia and money and government can't even bring it close to that. Allot of people are just who they are. If you gave them a million dollars and an up and comer a million dollars the burger flipper 9 out of 10 times will end up broke. He'll have a jacked up truck and a boat but he'll be broke. The up and comer more times then not will turn that into a successful life and career.

My dad always stayed on me to learn and when I blew school work off he'd always finish his lecture off with "keep this up the world needs ditch diggers to". And we need people working at McDonalds when I take my kids for their happy meals. That's just the facts.

The problem is we waste Billions trying to save the ones who abuse it or could care less. While the parent working 2 or 3 jobs can't get it because they make too much money. That's just DUMB but it happens allot.

And for sure violent crimes need a far stronger punishment than say a second dui gets. Right now a guy with a second dui and the guy that beats up and robs a man on the street get pretty close to the same jail sentence. And if it's a first offense the guy might even get off with just probation for the robbery and assault. Depends on his legal representation and were he lives.

Just, i have to jump in here, the quality of the educational system is poor to awful.. its not the lazy kid or loser as you are inferring its the system itself the system is seeking to serve the needs of the major corporations with a rote like dumbing down process filling a kids head with predetermined bodies of knowledge which is often disconnected from students... ..... in this educational system you are simply an audience not an active integral aspect of the your education let alone the world or culture within which you live and that is just the tip of the iceberg few are gonna last long where what you think is irrelevant or immaterial as long as you can parrot the data that is given you Indeed ..digging ditches means you were successfully educatied in just the way intended, your dad was smart IMO.... and don't ask questions, don't think, the major corporations will do your thinking for you all the way to the bank..don't be fooled its no accident the schools are failing, it serves a very big pursepus.......... :tu:

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eqgumby
From people dying in the streets of America to who want's control of the middle east from what time period who cares is this about history of the middle east? I'm confused lol

I guess you missed THAT part of this debacle.

Scroll back and re-read some of teh earlier posts to see how THAT digression began! ;)

But, yeah, this IS in part about the history of the middle-east.

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Splodgenessabounds
I guess you missed THAT part of this debacle.

Scroll back and re-read some of teh earlier posts to see how THAT digression began! ;)

But, yeah, this IS in part about the history of the middle-east.

The British have a lot to do with how Iraq became like it did today, after the WW1 the League of Nations (you think the UN is bad) handed control of the Baghdad region of the Ottoman empire over to the British. The brits then combined the Baghdad region with the Basra and Mosul regions to form the Iraq we know today. Also before the Gulf War the british government sold arms to Iraq just WEEKS before they invaded Kuwait.

We Brits are great this sort of thing, we created Israel as well which we we all know is a very peaceful region of the Middle East today and we created Pakistan after leaving India. Which led to the deaths of thousands of muslims, hindus etc. etc. We didn't even over see the transition, we just set up the template and left.

That's a very quick overview, there's a lot more to it than that.

Edited by Splodgenessabounds

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Noteaph

First off, that 'old boys network' McCain is so ridiculously incompetent its not even funny anymore, running against someone like that is a wet dream for every politician out there. Sgot the charisma of a doornob to boot. If i'd be in a position where I had to make sure one of the 2 won an election McCain is exactly the card I'd use, cant fail (with McCain losing that is ofcourse).

On Obama: if he indeed proceeds to post- elect status, given we still have some odd 70 days to go in which all sorts of crazy stuff can happen, I dont think his polissy will ensure or create a big change at all. His personal (primary) advisor is one Zbigniew Brzezinsky, a man who wrote a very interesting but chilling book on his view on world politics "The grand chessboard". I'd advise everyone to read it, quite enlightening.

Also, I feel Mr Nader has some interesting points on mr. Obama:

("Obama; uncle sam or uncle tom?")

Salus populi suprema lex

Edited by Noteaph

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Sherapy
I would like to add my congratulations to the People of America. From an article I read...

source

Not all that Obama promised (and the promise represented by the election of Obama) may happen, at least not quickly. But the American people have shown they believe it can happen, and that gives the rest of the World hope as well. Thank you.

this is the first time I have ever voted along with a bunch of us who have been disheartened by the political system for years.....

we encouraged each other to register, we actually for the first time in forever see hope for us all.....

for me having you and tiggs and silver thong posting helped me alot because so few were for obama on this site....so thank you Leo... :wub:

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momentarylapseofreason
First off, that 'old boys network' McCain is so ridiculously incompetent its not even funny anymore, running against someone like that is a wet dream for every politician out there. Sgot the charisma of a doornob to boot. If i'd be in a position where I had to make sure one of the 2 won an election McCain is exactly the card I'd use, cant fail (with McCain losing that is ofcourse).

On Obama: if he indeed proceeds to post- elect status, given we still have some odd 70 days to go in which all sorts of crazy stuff can happen, I dont think his polissy will ensure or create a big change at all. His personal (primary) advisor is one Zbigniew Brzezinsky, a man who wrote a very interesting but chilling book on his view on world politics "The grand chessboard". I'd advise everyone to read it, quite enlightening.

Also, I feel Mr Nader has some interesting points on mr. Obama:

("Obama; uncle sam or uncle tom?")

Salus populi suprema lex

Interesting man but old.

I can'tfind anything that upsets me about him.

Zbigniew Kazimierz Brzezinski (Polish: Zbigniew Kazimierz Brzeziński, pronounced [ˈzbigɲev bʐɛˈʑiɲski]) : (born March 28, 1928, Warsaw, Poland) is a Polish-American political scientist, geostrategist, and statesman who served as United States National Security Advisor to President Jimmy Carter from 1977 to 1981. Known for his hawkish foreign policy at a time when the Democratic Party was increasingly dovish, he is a foreign policy realist and considered by some to be the Democrats' response to Republican realist Henry Kissinger.[1]

Major foreign policy events during his term of office included the normalization of relations with the People's Republic of China (and the severing of ties with the Republic of China), the signing of the second Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty (SALT II), the brokering of the Camp David Accords, the transition of Iran to an anti-Western Islamic state, encouraging reform in Eastern Europe, emphasizing human rights in U.S. foreign policy[citation needed], the arming of the mujaheddin in Afghanistan[2] to fight against the Soviet-friendly Afghan government, increase the probability of Soviet invasion and later entanglement in a Vietnam-style war,[3] and later to counter the Soviet invasion, and the signing of the Torrijos-Carter Treaties relinquishing U.S. control of the Panama Canal after 1999.

He is currently professor of American foreign policy at Johns Hopkins University's School of Advanced International Studies, a scholar at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, and a member of various boards and councils. He appears frequently as an expert on the PBS program The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer.

more here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zbigniew_Brzezinski

Edited by momentarylapseofreason

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eqgumby
The British have a lot to do with how Iraq became like it did today, after the WW1 the League of Nations (you think the UN is bad) handed control of the Baghdad region of the Ottoman empire over to the British. The brits then combined the Baghdad region with the Basra and Mosul regions to form the Iraq we know today. Also before the Gulf War the british government sold arms to Iraq just WEEKS before they invaded Kuwait.

We Brits are great this sort of thing, we created Israel as well which we we all know is a very peaceful region of the Middle East today and we created Pakistan after leaving India. Which led to the deaths of thousands of muslims, hindus etc. etc. We didn't even over see the transition, we just set up the template and left.

That's a very quick overview, there's a lot more to it than that.

Thanks. Nice to have a Brit validate what I mentioned.

Proof only that no one is completely innocent. This sort of thing has been going on for a long time. It simply stuns me when idiots pop up like gophers and spout off like the US is some evil empire bent on colonizing the world, when in fact, that's just not true. More often than not, the US gets dragged into this crapola because we are a "super power" then we get dragged through the mud for it. Look what happened in Somalia. Look at the disaster that was Vietnam. Do you realize that the crisis in Vietnam was created in large part by the French?

Yeah, no one talks much about that.

The point of all this is, America is not the demon, nor is it the savior, that so many people want it to be. Just another country looking out for itself as best it can.

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Michelle

It's interesting that people talk about McCain being too old for office. If a company makes people retire at 65 they would scream to high heaven about how old people are being put out to pasture way before their time and that are still useful, they've seen more and have more knowledge than younger people etc., etc., etc.,...

I think this double standard is diplorable.

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momentarylapseofreason
It's interesting that people talk about McCain being too old for office. If a company makes people retire at 65 they would scream to high heaven about how old people are being put out to pasture way before their time and that are still useful, they've seen more and have more knowledge than younger people etc., etc., etc.,...

I think this double standard is diplorable.

For one there is a big difference in running a country then running a supermarket, restaurant for example.

Besides not many wanted Sarah Palin in his shoes if he tipped over.

linked-image

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Michelle
For one there is a big difference in running a country then running a supermarket, restaurant for example.

That's disrespectful. There are many older people, that are very sharp, still running Fortune 500 companies all over the world. And running a restaurant is one of the most demanding jobs, physically and mentally, there ever was.

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momentarylapseofreason
That's disrespectful. There are many older people, that are very sharp, still running Fortune 500 companies all over the world. And running a restaurant is one of the most demanding jobs, physically and mentally, there ever was.

It's not a matter of respect- but the mind has to be extremely sharp & clear for that kind of responsibility. I mean come on the guy didn't even know how many houses he owned and called Spain's PM Zapatero an enemy LOL LOL !!!!!!!!

But I still prefer him to Ms. Plain oops I mean Palin ?-wouldn't want her mind running/ruining the country any further.

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PhoenixDown
It's not a matter of respect- but the mind has to be extremely sharp & clear for that kind of responsibility. I mean come on the guy didn't even know how many houses he owned and called Spain's PM Zapatero an enemy LOL LOL !!!!!!!!

But I still prefer him to Ms. Plain oops I mean Palin ?-wouldn't want her mind running/ruining the country any further.

Obama's sharp and clear mind said he had travelled to all 57 states.

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momentarylapseofreason
Obama's sharp and clear mind said he had travelled to all 57 states.

are you serious ?

Maybe it was a slip of the tongue

Edited by momentarylapseofreason

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PhoenixDown

I was being a little sarcastic, but he did say it:

are you serious ?

Maybe it was a slip of the tongue

yeah, maybe it was, maybe his mind wasn't sharp and clear that day. ;)

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Michelle
are you serious ?

Maybe it was a slip of the tongue

Oh, with Obama it's a slip of the tongue. :rolleyes:

Sure.

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jaylemurph
That's disrespectful. There are many older people, that are very sharp, still running Fortune 500 companies all over the world. And running a restaurant is one of the most demanding jobs, physically and mentally, there ever was.

There are also very many old people with dementia, or whose feebleness doesn't allow them to live without medical attention. You don't get to not take them in consideration when making a panegyric to how swell the elderly do things.

--Jaylemurph

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SilverCougar
Obama's sharp and clear mind said he had travelled to all 57 states.

It happens. Kinda like McCain "Couldn't agree more" with what the "other side" was "saying" about "real america"

Or Biden with FDR and guns..

Or anything that Palin says...

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Michelle
There are also very many old people with dementia, or whose feebleness doesn't allow them to live without medical attention. You don't get to not take them in consideration when making a panegyric to how swell the elderly do things.

--Jaylemurph

Get back to me when you can prove any of those things about McCain. ;)

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PhoenixDown
It happens. Kinda like McCain "Couldn't agree more" with what the "other side" was "saying" about "real america"

Or Biden with FDR and guns..

Or anything that Palin says...

I agree with you (again...haha). However, it is only fair to hold all sides to it. :D

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