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ArchangelBaw

Video proof that psiballs are real

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eight bits

A naturalistic stance to natural phenomena is a good first step. But it ain't enough.

I am of two minds about your explanations, aquatus. At one level, I fully endorse, and so we share, a naturalistic approach to ordinary phenomena. At another level, though, going beyond the scientific facts of the matter leaves the door wide open to rebuttal from equally "scientific" just-so stories, like carrot sprite's.

For example, once non-science like "the mind is designed" is in play, then it is a short hop to claims that the body has electrical activity (yes), therefore electromagnetic radiation emanating from the body plays a role in ordinary experience (huh?), and so there are materially effective radiations subject to mental control (bull). Before you know it, we are right back at cartoon-channel psi balls.

There is no evidence that the mind is designed. Quite a bit happens in the nervous system that has nothing to do with "mind." Quite a bit, in fact, never gets within two feet of the brain (spinal reflexes, for example). We need to start over.

If there is evidence that skin surface warming by attention is even much related to the hallucination of phantom objects, then I would like a citation for that. Absent such evidence, then the first is typical of ordinary learned shaping of otherwise "autonomic" events, while the second is typical of ordinary higher-level perceptual processing gone slightly, regularly, and lawfully awry.

Crucially, the sensation of warmth in the presence of enhanced blood flow to the skin surface is not a hallucination. Phantom objects are hallucinations, reasonable but erroneous interpretations of proprioceptive and kinesthetic traffic in the sensory nerves (with a possible efferent role in some cases - there seems to be more than one way to do it).

Belief is irrelevant. I have "made psi balls," that is, induced the compelling sensation of a phantom object in my hands, although I am perfectly aware that nothing is there. I can add visual effects or not as I please, again, while being perfectly aware that there is nothing to see.

So can anybody else. People need to know what is usual before setting out to explore the unusual. Knowing what is usual is more important than knowing why it is usual, especially if the "why" on offer isn't quite right.

People also need to know that many folks whom they will encounter en route will exaggerate their knowledge and ability. (You know where I got that line? From Robert Monroe's description of the "beings" he encountered in his "astral travels." Connect the dots, Bob.)

In closing, "science," whatever the hell that is, gets a bad rap for its smug explaining away of (seemingly) just about everything. OK, then hear this: there is a lot of this stuff about which nobody knows very much.

"Just so" stories, whether in the service of mechanistic naturalism or in the service of anime-as-a-guide-to-life, need to be left behind. Apart from every other consideration, in a contest between a just-so story that says nothing is special and a competing just-so story that says the listener is special - the second story will win. There is no contest.

So, I recommend not playing that game. The schlock meisters are better at it, and they have cooler graphics, too.

Edited by eight bits

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Shadowmalerenamon
Same reason. Interpretation. The mind only works off what it has, and when a person has prepared themselves to believe they are holding a ball in their hands, it isn't all that big a leap to have the ball act like a ball.

Excellent explaination aquatus, I'm surprised not many have brought up the psychosomatic response aspect of most "psychic phenomena". The mind fools us, and when we believe it we become delusion, thus it fools us even more.

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Shadowmalerenamon

I also must add that this topic has been fun to watch. Skeptics say prove it, believers say they are childish/insecure/wrong/etc. because they can't and don't need to. always fun to watch

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Max.L
I also must add that this topic has been fun to watch. Skeptics say prove it, believers say they are childish/insecure/wrong/etc. because they can't and don't need to. always fun to watch

:tsu:

I agree

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Psikillion
Neither, actually. The people are most certainly not making up the sensations that they feel. So, what are these sensations?

The key to understanding what they are feeling is understanding what the role of the brain is. The brain is, essentially, blind. It relies entirely on interpretation. It doesn't so much rely on sensory input from the eyes, from touch, or any of the other sense as much as it relies in the interpretation of this input. This is why you can have one input, such as a sheet flapping in the wind, and have it misinterpreted by the mind as a ghost, and thus create a feeling of fear (just as an example; I know some people would be tickled pink if they though they saw a ghost).

So, now that we know that the mind reacts to interpretations, not to actual stimuli, the next step is to realize that the mind can create its own interpretations (in extreme forms, we have people whose minds are so overwhelmed by incorrect interpretations that they have to be isolated into mental wards). Simple dreams are enough to inspire various different reactions from people in the absence of physical stimuli, everything from terror, to happiness, to lust, to terror. Everyone has heard of people waking up in cold sweats, randy, or happy.

The mind, then, is capable of creating physical reactions in the absence of stimuli through nothing more than interpretation. Basically, thoughts can cause the body to react. So, how does this connect to psi-balls?

The mind is designed. at its core, as a survival mechanism. To that end, one of its major functions is to shunt resources to where they are needed. If the stomach is full, blood is sent there to help digest. If the legs are pumping hard, blood is sent to them to provide energy. The mind does this because it has interpreted that this area needs the extra blood.

So, now our intrepid psi investigator assumes the lotus and begins to concentrate on his hands. The mind doesn't know a psi-ball from a flapping sheet from a hole in the ground; the mind only perceives one thing: hands. There is a lot of focus on the hands, and for whatever reason, the mind interprets that the hands need attention. Subsequently, the mind floods the hands with fresh blood, in preperation for whatever they are being focused on for.

The person concentrating doesn't know any of this. They suddenly feel that their hands are staring to feel like they are holding something. Why is this? This is because we know, from experience, that anytime we hold something, our hands feel "fuller". This is because the weight from the object is compressing our hands and the blood within them, creating greater pressure. Now, the investigator isn't holding anything, however the hands are filling up with blood sent there by the mind. The effect is the same. As blood fills the tissues, the pressure increases, simulating the increase in pressure from holding an object.

They also start to feel a sense of warmth. In fact, this greater warmth can even be recorded by heat-sensitive cameras. Again, the blood is to blame. The increased circulation results, quite naturally enough, in an increased amount of blood hot from the body's core, circulating to the relatively thin surface of the hands.

About this time, people start feeling a sense of detachment, a certain light-headedness, usually attributed to the energies flowing around the body. Actually, this feeling of light-headedness is the same one that a person feels after eating a particularly large meal. All the blood in the stomach, or in the hands, for that matter, is that much less blood circulating to the one organ that demands the highest blood supply of the body, the mind. Less blood to the brain results in a feeling of light-headedness.

In a nutshell, that is why people feel psi-balls.

What if someone were to make the psiball interact with another person without the subject's knowledge? And it just so happens it works?

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Shadowmalerenamon
What if someone were to make the psiball interact with another person without the subject's knowledge? And it just so happens it works?

If this happenned, I would like to see it, although it could still probably be disproven.

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S2F
What if someone were to make the psiball interact with another person without the subject's knowledge? And it just so happens it works?

I know this isn't how you meant your reply but it made me think of Dragon Ball Z, with Goku throwing a kamehameha at somebody and the ensuing "interaction" with the explosion and crap flying everywhere. :lol:

Yes, sometimes I have the thoughts of a child lol. :tu:

Edited by Slave2Fate

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Agent. Mulder
They appearantly also are steroids. Have you seen the muscles on those wielding the "psi" balls?

is that dragon ball z/gt? or something?

if so, they dont use psi blast. i believe its ki blasts and such.

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Shadowmalerenamon
is that dragon ball z/gt? or something?

if so, they dont use psi blast. i believe its ki blasts and such.

I adamantly hate dragon ball, its an insult to writing. Sorry for going off topic, I shall speak of it no more

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AmandaASJ

I believe that THAT PSI BALLS ARE REAL psi ball are just energy that you make you can make big or small i didnt wach the the VIDEOs my computer is so slow it will took a day to wach them or more but they are real you can feel the energy you can make them hot or cold and i learnd this from my friend when i was 14 but now am 16 all most 17 don't juge me on my :angry: spelling a realy bad a that ok have a nice day ok from darkbluemoon

:)

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Shadowmalerenamon
I believe that THAT PSI BALLS ARE REAL psi ball are just energy that you make you can make big or small i didnt wach the the VIDEOs my computer is so slow it will took a day to wach them or more but they are real you can feel the energy you can make them hot or cold and i learnd this from my friend when i was 14 but now am 16 all most 17 don't juge me on my :angry: spelling a realy bad a that ok have a nice day ok from darkbluemoon

:)

I'm more concerned with your punctuation (or lack of) than you're spelling. Your friend told you about it before you tried it? Pyschosomatic response I must say (by the way, I'm 17 as well)

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aquatus1
There was another force described by someone that would override even the survival mechanism. That was the force to expand one's own power through the essence of will.

Less esoterically, it can also be called "training" or "discipline", either of which helps one overcome the survival mechanism.

Humans have a bunch of wires of electricity running through them (do you dispute this?). Albeit, they are biological wires, they are still wires.

Hmm...I think a little clarification is in order. The human nervous system is not electrical; it is electrochemical. This is a crucial difference. Where wires work on the forces that govern the movements of electrons, the human nervous system employs a system that is almost mechanical by comparison.

Nerve synapses have a special protein whose function is to shuttle Na ions and K ions in and out of the nerve body. By moving the sodium and potassium ions, each one with its corresponding positive and negative charge, an imbalance is created within the synapse. When the imbalance reaches around a -70 milliamp stage, it fires, thus sending the signal on down to the next synapse. The process then begins again, recharging the ion for the next burst. These elctrochemical (chemical ions acting like electrical impulses) "sparks" are what is being sensed by the MRI equipment.

It only seems to make sense to me that these wires (nerves) are going to at least give off a slight EMF.

If they were metal wires, this would indeed make sense. They are not, however. You know that if you wind a wire around a nail and apply a current to it, it will create an emf field that will magnetize the nail. I don't have a source, but I hope you believe me when I say that winding a human nerve around a nail will not give you the same effect.

The human body is an amazing thing, and the supposed limits of it are always defying the odds. When you touch something - metal - a person - an animal - certain kinds of fabric; and you generate a static shock. Do you see what I'm getting at?

But you aren't generating a static charge. You are simply gathering it from the materials.

Some of you are saying, "Well if it was true these things would be researched." Well, they are and have been researched for thousands of years. Look at martial arts, yoga, hermetics, healing through prayer, energy healers, etc.

Therein the problem. After all these thousands of years, there is still no unexplained effect being exhibited.

The human aura has recently started to creep into mainstream science with some picture evidence of its existence.

I hope you are not referring to Kirlian photography, but if you are, that too is easily explained. It is a very simple effect known as coronal discharge, or more colloquially, "St. Elmo's Fire".

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DfizzleShizzle
What if someone were to make the psiball interact with another person without the subject's knowledge? And it just so happens it works?

I've done this before. One time my friend Austin like jumped a good 5 feet backwards after I told him to feel inbetween my hands, cause he said it was really cold and just had this weird feeling to it.

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eqgumby
Less esoterically, it can also be called "training" or "discipline", either of which helps one overcome the survival mechanism.

Hmm...I think a little clarification is in order. The human nervous system is not electrical; it is electrochemical. This is a crucial difference. Where wires work on the forces that govern the movements of electrons, the human nervous system employs a system that is almost mechanical by comparison.

Nerve synapses have a special protein whose function is to shuttle Na ions and K ions in and out of the nerve body. By moving the sodium and potassium ions, each one with its corresponding positive and negative charge, an imbalance is created within the synapse. When the imbalance reaches around a -70 milliamp stage, it fires, thus sending the signal on down to the next synapse. The process then begins again, recharging the ion for the next burst. These elctrochemical (chemical ions acting like electrical impulses) "sparks" are what is being sensed by the MRI equipment.

If they were metal wires, this would indeed make sense. They are not, however. You know that if you wind a wire around a nail and apply a current to it, it will create an emf field that will magnetize the nail. I don't have a source, but I hope you believe me when I say that winding a human nerve around a nail will not give you the same effect.

But you aren't generating a static charge. You are simply gathering it from the materials.

Therein the problem. After all these thousands of years, there is still no unexplained effect being exhibited.

I hope you are not referring to Kirlian photography, but if you are, that too is easily explained. It is a very simple effect known as coronal discharge, or more colloquially, "St. Elmo's Fire".

:huh:

You make my brain hurt. :wacko:

I think you just shut down half the threads on UM...I guess I need to take up knitting now...since you explained half the worlds mysteries in one post!

:lol:

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Jemimabutterworth

Everytime I see you post, it's usually a disbelieving comment with sarcasm added. Do you just come here to belittle people or do believe in anything unexplained?

...excuse me? what?

thank you IH.

im not sure what they meant either.

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Agent. Mulder
I believe that THAT PSI BALLS ARE REAL psi ball are just energy that you make you can make big or small i didnt wach the the VIDEOs my computer is so slow it will took a day to wach them or more but they are real you can feel the energy you can make them hot or cold and i learnd this from my friend when i was 14 but now am 16 all most 17 don't juge me on my :angry: spelling a realy bad a that ok have a nice day ok from darkbluemoon

:)

have you done it? or are you just saying you think its real from what youve been told?

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Agent. Mulder
Everytime I see you post, it's usually a disbelieving comment with sarcasm added. Do you just come here to belittle people or do believe in anything unexplained?

nope. no sarcasm intended there.

and i come on here because i Believe quite a bit of whats on these discussion boards (save for religion and alota whats on the ghost forum). i also enjoy the mods and other members on the boards.

clearly youre new, and havent read very many of my posts at all. never judge someone soley based on a single thread. trust me.

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Ketzer

Why can't anyone call the news and show their "power" in person?

Many people claim to have psychic abilities or being able to create psyballs, psyshields, psyswords, psycrap and psychologists, yet they never show scientists or anyone.

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Agent. Mulder
Why can't anyone call the news and show their "power" in person?

Many people claim to have psychic abilities or being able to create psyballs, psyshields, psyswords, psycrap and psychologists, yet they never show scientists or anyone.

possibly because they dont want to be proven a fraud infront of everyone.

honestly, i Wanna see it. if this is possible, then i wanna know. mainly so i can hop on the band wagon and start doing it.

i already suggested as well, going to some science or physics department at a big uni/col and preforming this and letting them study it, but apparently no one wants too. maybe theyre too busy, posting on threads claiming they can create them.

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S2F
possibly because they dont want to be proven a fraud infront of everyone.

honestly, i Wanna see it. if this is possible, then i wanna know. mainly so i can hop on the band wagon and start doing it.

i already suggested as well, going to some science or physics department at a big uni/col and preforming this and letting them study it, but apparently no one wants too. maybe theyre too busy, posting on threads claiming they can create them.

If I could produce psi-balls I would run to the nearest scientist to have it scientifically verified. You'd make huge cash AND go down in the history books. It seems like a no-brainer to me. :yes:

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Ketzer
If I could produce psi-balls I would run to the nearest scientist to have it scientifically verified. You'd make huge cash AND go down in the history books. It seems like a no-brainer to me. :yes:

Exactly.

I would become rich, so why not do it?

It doesn't exist, that's why.

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InHuman
I've done this before. One time my friend Austin like jumped a good 5 feet backwards after I told him to feel inbetween my hands, cause he said it was really cold and just had this weird feeling to it.

I doubt it.

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eight bits
I've done this before. One time my friend Austin like jumped a good 5 feet backwards after I told him to feel inbetween my hands, cause he said it was really cold and just had this weird feeling to it.

I believe you, Heart.

And I believe you because the ability of ordinary people to train themselves to regulate bloodflow to the surface of their body has been in the literature since the 1970's. Hell, it was in The New Yorker by the 1970's:

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/1972/08/2...CARDS_000306046

It isn't "psychosomatic" (lol, there's an oldie but goodie) and it isn't the "power of the mind" (which, after all, restates the psi claim), and it isn't because the mind was "designed" (nor was the circulatory system, for that matter.)

It's learning, plain, simple learning. It is also completely natural.

Congratulations, but there is no money in it, there's nothing that would interest a university scientist. You were born too late for that. Sorry, buddy.

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Insight
I know what you mean, my husband is CRAZY POWERFUL, and until just recently, he's never utilized it:) There's still hope for you and your friend. you may not believe in yourself yet 100% but that's ok because I do:) I love christian people, but the structure of their belief system stunts their spiritual growth in many ways. It makes me sad too, so I just bless them:)

RE SARU: SORRY ABOUT THAT. IT WAS AN "IN COMMING MESSAGE FROM THE BIG GIANT HEAD" NEXT TIME IT HAPPENS I'LL PM THE PERSON.

You guys wanna know why democracy doesn't work? Because THIS person's vote counts as much as mine.

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eqgumby
You guys wanna know why democracy doesn't work? Because THIS person's vote counts as much as mine.

:lol:

Mean, but funny.

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