BNP fury as ENTIRE membership list of 10,000

[questionmark]

That's what I have a problem with. They released names of kiddos as well?

If they pay the membership dues, yes. This is list most likely from the BNP treasurers office. Now they just have to see who has a new car there....

[TSS]

As to the OP... I've said several times in this forum over the last few days that people seem to have trouble dealing with the public consequences of what they believe. I think each of these closet BNPers is getting exactly what they deserve.

--Jaylemurph

No they're not getting what they deserve. Nobody deserves to have their personal details displayed on the net for holding certain political views

(if the party isn't outlawed), regardless of how abhorent you find their views.

[Bill Hill]

If you don’t know anything about Scottish politics Bill Hill, you shouldn’t be commenting on them.

Actually I'm of Scottish descent. As you well know the main reason the SNP got voted in, is thanks to;

One albeit slightly racist Australian. well, when drunk.

Mr Mel Gibson.

Edited November 19, 2008 by Bill Hill

[AzTide]

As to the OP... I've said several times in this forum over the last few days that people seem to have trouble dealing with the public consequences of what they believe. I think each of these closet BNPers is getting exactly what they deserve.

--Jaylemurph

Jay I believe you are correct that people have trouble with dealing with what they believe.

The only difference I see is that at least here in the US minorities are not called out and crucified for racist comments made against other races or even their own race like a white person is. A white person is run thru the mud disgraced loses employment for a joke or a comment that if said by a minority is shrugged off if even noticed by others. I can and will list plenty of recent examples if you’d wish.

These people who have trouble dealing with what they believe see the attacks and how trivial some are and have learned to keep stuff to themselves. They see minorities make statements and it’s on CNN or Fox and it’s a story on the nightly news and no one goes calling for their livelihood or apologies.

I’m not defending ALL comments or jokes but lets get real enough is enough the world is too sensitive and because of it these groups like BNP pop up and feed on the frustration and fear of whites and other groups do the same but feed on what minorities perceive.

[jaylemurph]

No they're not getting what they deserve. Nobody deserves to have their personal details displayed on the net for holding certain political views

(if the party isn't outlawed), regardless of how abhorent you find their views.

Clearly, I disagree.

It would certainly be different if what was posted was the results of an election. But this is just the membership of a public political party. They have a right to be identified with and accountable for the policies and beliefs they espouse. If these policies were not deeply shameful they'd have no reason to be upset at the release of information: I doubt if they released the names of the Happy Sunshine Picnic Political Interest Group the members would be distressed.

--Jaylemurph

[Bill Hill]

: I doubt if they released the names of the Happy Sunshine Picnic Political Interest Group the members would be distressed.

--Jaylemurph

The liberal party?

[hetrodoxly]

I don't think it's a bad thing it's about time we got everything in the open, if any member of the BNP looses their job or is persecuted in anyway by left-wing fascist we need to get people on the street, it could turn out to be the biggest membership recruitment the BNP have ever had, support the BNP against the tyranny of left-wing fascism who are hell bent on seeing your country destroyed.

[TSS]

They have a right to be identified with and accountable for the policies and beliefs they espouse.

So the details of members of all political parties should be made available on the net then? I find other political parties and their policies as distasteful as the BNP. I should have a right to know their occupations then to see how they impact on my life, agreed?

If these policies were not deeply shameful they'd have no reason to be upset at the release of information: I doubt if they released the names of the Happy Sunshine Picnic Political Interest Group the members would be distressed.

--Jaylemurph

Irrelevant really. If a political party isn't illegal then there's no reason why they should be exempt from data protection laws.

[itsnotoutthere]

Clearly, I disagree.

It would certainly be different if what was posted was the results of an election. But this is just the membership of a public political party. They have a right to be identified with and accountable for the policies and beliefs they espouse. If these policies were not deeply shameful they'd have no reason to be upset at the release of information: I doubt if they released the names of the Happy Sunshine Picnic Political Interest Group the members would be distressed.

--Jaylemurph

So your point is that these people on the list hold nasty beliefs & deserve to have their names posted on the web. As a consequence, according to the news reports tonight, several of them have recieved abusive phone calls & death threats. So presumably the people making the abusive & threatening calls are the law abiding moderate types that follow & vote for the other political parties.

wow..wonderful human beings......

[chemical-licker]

So your point is that these people on the list hold nasty beliefs & deserve to have their names posted on the web. As a consequence, according to the news reports tonight, several of them have recieved abusive phone calls & death threats. So presumably the people making the abusive & threatening calls are the law abiding moderate types that follow & vote for the other political parties.

wow..wonderful human beings......

nice one

[Sthenno]

I mean far right, and the far left.. more or the less the same. In fact I believe the far-left has a higher death toll in the 20th century.

As for the anti-Nazi league, you won't see them protesting against say muslim extremist protests. Or taking a stance against the gangs.

Well no, that's because they're anti-Nazi.

I know it's not a popular view but I do believe that with the escalating levels of recruitment into parties like the BNP and the British People's Party this country needs dedicated, hardline anti-fascists to work towards revealing what these parties truly stand for. You can't fight every battle at once. Having said that, I do know quite a few members of Antifa, and all of them are involved with community work and volunteering in one way or another - working to eliminate the cause of things like gangs and violence.

With regards as to whether or not people should lose their jobs dependent on what political party they support, it's a complicated issue. If you recognise the BNP as a legitimate party then technically a vote for them should not effect people's lives in any way. But personally I don't, and certainly wouldn't want a BNP supporter teaching my children about the world.

[itsnotoutthere]

nice one

Well, tell it like it is.

[itsnotoutthere]

I think you are very cynical. Most Muslims are not extremist. That is like saying most Irish Catholics are IRA members.

The possibility is extremely slim and at the moment it is beyond all reasonable doubt that we will.

violent crime may have recently risen, but that is after huge declines from the late 80's.

No, but it's funny how most extremists seem to be muslim.

[questionmark]

No, but it's funny how most extremists seem to be muslim.

I doubt that. They are at this time the more effective extremists, cause some people insist in giving some shiteaters a importance they don't have. Especially guilty media and supremacists.

[jaylemurph]

So the details of members of all political parties should be made available on the net then? I find other political parties and their policies as distasteful as the BNP. I should have a right to know their occupations then to see how they impact on my life, agreed?

I don't see any problem with /all/ people's political party affiliation being available publicly. As I said, the results of an election need to be private, but not the membership of a public group.

So your point is that these people on the list hold nasty beliefs & deserve to have their names posted on the web. As a consequence, according to the news reports tonight, several of them have recieved abusive phone calls & death threats. So presumably the people making the abusive & threatening calls are the law abiding moderate types that follow & vote for the other political parties.

wow..wonderful human beings......

You're confusing the issues here. I'm not saying that these people should be put on a list for having nasty beliefs per se. That's deliberately distorting what I said. It's one thing to have such beliefs privately, or to vote singly those actions. But when you ally yourself with a group that collectively shares views that engender hate and wish to politically further it by decreasing the rights of others, it's different. You don't have a right, I think, to espouse hateful attitudes and then not be held accountable for them. Do you think, for instance, that you oughtn't to know if your neighbour was a member of Al Queida?

The people making threats are clearly engaging in illegal activity. Illegal activity is not an /inevitable/ direct consequence of this identification (since there are people who didn't engage in threats). People who make the choice to commit an illegal act should be punished. Because some men choose to commit rape, does than mean all men should have their penes removed?

--Jaylemurph

[Bill Hill]

I don't see any problem with /all/ people's political party affiliation being available publicly. As I said, the results of an election need to be private, but not the membership of a public group.

You're confusing the issues here. I'm not saying that these people should be put on a list for having nasty beliefs per se. That's deliberately distorting what I said. It's one thing to have such beliefs privately, or to vote singly those actions. But when you ally yourself with a group that collectively shares views that engender hate and wish to politically further it by decreasing the rights of others, it's different. You don't have a right, I think, to espouse hateful attitudes and then not be held accountable for them. Do you think, for instance, that you oughtn't to know if your neighbour was a member of Al Queida?

The people making threats are clearly engaging in illegal activity. Illegal activity is not an /inevitable/ direct consequence of this identification (since there are people who didn't engage in threats). People who make the choice to commit an illegal act should be punished. Because some men choose to commit rape, does than mean all men should have their penes removed?

--Jaylemurph

lol and you claim I pussyfoot around, say what you really mean Jaylemurph.

[Bill Hill]

With regards as to whether or not people should lose their jobs dependent on what political party they support, it's a complicated issue. If you recognise the BNP as a legitimate party then technically a vote for them should not effect people's lives in any way. But personally I don't, and certainly wouldn't want a BNP supporter teaching my children about the world.

I agree, it's a complicated issue. Actually that's one of my favorite saying.

It's easy when the enemy is so obvious.. not so, when the issues are complicated.

I mean, would you want a muslim extremist teaching your children about the world?

Well no, that's because they're anti-Nazi.

I know it's not a popular view but I do believe that with the escalating levels of recruitment into parties like the BNP and the British People's Party this country needs dedicated, hardline anti-fascists to work towards revealing what these parties truly stand for. You can't fight every battle at once. Having said that, I do know quite a few members of Antifa, and all of them are involved with community work and volunteering in one way or another - working to eliminate the cause of things like gangs and violence.

Somehow, I suspect they'll have a subjective viewpoint to the causes of gangs and violence.

cough..Is it poverty and white racism?

Actually in my scenario of civil war, groups like Antifa would play an active role.

Like at the moment it's easy when you think the enemy is so obvious.. Anti-Nazi... Anti white-Nazi. Not quite anti-all Nazis.

KILL THE RACISTS they're everywhere...

http://www.antifa.org.uk/

[corporatepunishment]

I don't see any problem with /all/ people's political party affiliation being available publicly. As I said, the results of an election need to be private, but not the membership of a public group.

You're confusing the issues here. I'm not saying that these people should be put on a list for having nasty beliefs per se. That's deliberately distorting what I said. It's one thing to have such beliefs privately, or to vote singly those actions. But when you ally yourself with a group that collectively shares views that engender hate and wish to politically further it by decreasing the rights of others, it's different. You don't have a right, I think, to espouse hateful attitudes and then not be held accountable for them. Do you think, for instance, that you oughtn't to know if your neighbour was a member of Al Queida?

The people making threats are clearly engaging in illegal activity. Illegal activity is not an /inevitable/ direct consequence of this identification (since there are people who didn't engage in threats). People who make the choice to commit an illegal act should be punished. Because some men choose to commit rape, does than mean all men should have their penes removed?

--Jaylemurph

what groups engender hate towards others and politically furthers it by decreasing the rights of others ? I wonder??Who would be making laws daily that takes rights away from people? who would be be engendering hate world wide by constant warfare ? who would be spying on people using an orwellian camera network that can track your every move from one end of the country to the other? who would recklessly destroy a country steal billions of £s of future taxpayers money? who would allow such policies that would bring so many different cultures together in such a small space and in areas of poverty knowing damn well it would cause tension,friction and hate? I don,t honestly know.

[chemical-licker]

what groups engender hate towards others and politically furthers it by decreasing the rights of others ? I wonder??Who would be making laws daily that takes rights away from people? who would be be engendering hate world wide by constant warfare ? who would be spying on people using an orwellian camera network that can track your every move from one end of the country to the other? who would recklessly destroy a country steal billions of £s of future taxpayers money? who would allow such policies that would bring so many different cultures together in such a small space and in areas of poverty knowing damn well it would cause tension,friction and hate? I don,t honestly know.

that touched me

[Bill Hill]

^Yeah I thought that was brilliant

I give you... DAS LABOUR PARTY

[corporatepunishment]

^Yeah I thought that was brilliant

I give you... DAS LABOUR PARTY

**** thought police at the door must dash.

[Sthenno]

I agree, it's a complicated issue. Actually that's one of my favorite saying.

It's easy when the enemy is so obvious.. not so, when the issues are complicated.

I mean, would you want a muslim extremist teaching your children about the world?

No, I certainly would not. Although it's an idealist viewpoint, my perfect world would be where no people of extremist views of any kind were allowed to teach children. Whether we mean to or not, our personal beliefs will always affect how we present things to others. But then I guess the alternative is a bunch of faceless, characterless government clones passing on their world view to the next generation, and I somehow don't see that as an improvement.

Somehow, I suspect they'll have a subjective viewpoint to the causes of gangs and violence.

cough..Is it poverty and white racism?

Actually in my scenario of civil war, groups like Antifa would play an active role.

Like at the moment it's easy when you think the enemy is so obvious.. Anti-Nazi... Anti white-Nazi. Not quite anti-all Nazis.

KILL THE RACISTS they're everywhere...

http://www.antifa.org.uk/

No, it's generally in my experience a lot simpler than that - its kids having nothing to do. I do know a lot of people involved with anti-fascist movements, and I am proud to say that they seem totally able to distance themselves from their personal politics in that situation. I don't see them telling kids that their problems are down to government or fascists or anything else... I see them identifying a need in a community and attempting to fill it.

As to your last comment, I'm confused. I wasn't aware that there was any other sort of Nazi than a white one. Obviously you get oppression and racism within other racial groups, but as I said earlier - you can't fight all the battles. Prejudice exists everywhere, but you can't fight all of it at once.

[ShadowSot]

No, but it's funny how most extremists seem to be muslim.

Y'know about the number of Christians who bomb Abortion clinics, shout from the street corners so and so will die, and are generally extremist in every sense of the word?

Or Hinduism, or Jewish?

[Sthenno]

Y'know about the number of Christians who bomb Abortion clinics, shout from the street corners so and so will die, and are generally extremist in every sense of the word?

Or Hinduism, or Jewish?

Ah, but the media doesn't have such a love of reporting such types - they're just not newsworthy enough.

It's funny - people always say it's the Muslims who are extremist, but I live in a very diverse area and the only people who've ever tried to ram their religion down my throat have been Christians.

Not that I think it's their fault... religion is as religion does. If people feel the need to preach then so be it - I'm big enough and ugly enough to tell them where to go. It just puzzles me when people assume it's the Muslims who are the extremists - in my experience its a little closer to home.

[corporatepunishment]

No, I certainly would not. Although it's an idealist viewpoint, my perfect world would be where no people of extremist views of any kind were allowed to teach children. Whether we mean to or not, our personal beliefs will always affect how we present things to others. But then I guess the alternative is a bunch of faceless, characterless government clones passing on their world view to the next generation, and I somehow don't see that as an improvement.

No, it's generally in my experience a lot simpler than that - its kids having nothing to do. I do know a lot of people involved with anti-fascist movements, and I am proud to say that they seem totally able to distance themselves from their personal politics in that situation. I don't see them telling kids that their problems are down to government or fascists or anything else... I see them identifying a need in a community and attempting to fill it.

As to your last comment, I'm confused. I wasn't aware that there was any other sort of Nazi than a white one. Obviously you get oppression and racism within other racial groups, but as I said earlier - you can't fight all the battles. Prejudice exists everywhere, but you can't fight all of it at once.

so you will be prejudiced, against the white prejudiced for now.Then prejudiced against the prejudiced of other races when that battle needs fighting. uhhhh.confusing.Doesn,t that make you prejudiced against prejudiced people. I was never taught politics at school just the usual rr and a. I think the brainwashing programming is a recent devolpment.