“Born again Christians” will become angels

[Karlis]

There is a belief – in some groups -- that “born again Christians” will become angels and live in heaven.

What is the source for this belief?

Karlis

[The Silver Thong]

I'm thinking the bible

[Karlis]

I'm thinking the bible

I know you are joking, of course, but I am curious about the source. My guess is that it would be a "Pentecostal-based" belief.

Kind regards,

Karlis

[Cradle of Fish]

Sounds like hardcore egotism to me.

[BlindMessiah]

Religious people who've never read the Bible?

Edited November 28, 2008 by BlindMessiah

[BlindMessiah]

I know you are joking, of course, but I am curious about the source. My guess is that it would be a "Pentecostal-based" belief.

Kind regards,

Karlis

Nah. That definitely isn't Pentecostal doctrine.

[Grandpa Greenman]

Isn't that the point of Christianity, when you die you got to live with God and become an angel or something like an angel. Maybe I don't understand the question.

[Karlis]

Isn't that the point of Christianity, when you die you got to live with God and become an angel or something like an angel. Maybe I don't understand the question.

Yes, there is confusion concerning Bible teachings; probably because people simply assume that what they have assumed for most of their lives is Scriptural and correct.

One common (but wrong) belief is that upon death souls either go to heaven to be with God, or to hell to be tortured -- or somewhere in-between these two extremes.

Hardly anyone ever researches the Bible to find answers to such questions.

Atheists ridicule such ideas; and most Christians simply accept what they assumed from childhood.

Kind regards,

Karlis

[freeman88]

my father left us when i was 2 and my brother had just been born. He ran away to Montreal and became a born again christian, changed his first name to something stupid and his last to bornagain. He lives in his moms basement and from what i hear he has devoted his life to become a monk or something pathetic. (Deleted insult.)

Edited November 28, 2008 by Darkwind
I am sorry for your troubles, but lets be civil.

[Grandpa Greenman]

I don't think anyone one goes to heaven or hell until the rapture, but I am most likely wrong it has been a long time since I was a Christian.

[Aanica]

There is a belief – in some groups -- that "born again Christians" will become angels and live in heaven.

What is the source for this belief?

Karlis

I think its a confusion of what happens when you die acording to the Christian Bible, You go to heaven as a born again or "Saved" christian, Angels are in heaven but you do not become one.

God has prepaired a home for you to dwell, Angels are created by God but are imortal, we have imortal souls but do not become Angels.

[TheDreamer]

Yes, there is confusion concerning Bible teachings; probably because people simply assume that what they have assumed for most of their lives is Scriptural and correct.

One common (but wrong) belief is that upon death souls either go to heaven to be with God, or to hell to be tortured -- or somewhere in-between these two extremes.

Hardly anyone ever researches the Bible to find answers to such questions.

Atheists ridicule such ideas; and most Christians simply accept what they assumed from childhood.

Kind regards,

Karlis

I do...

And I believe in the teachings of Christ as true, not since childhood but since near 1 year ago.

I research the beliefs but have found them true at every turn, and I do not need to prove it to myself anymore.

But for the sake of theism...Christians do not become angels, they judge them after the apocalypse. Angels are not like humans, and they are assigned tasks to keep us on our way, hence the Holy Spirit. But some believe that angels will be under Christians in Heaven when the end times are done and over with.

And yes, Heaven or Hell, it's your choice.

[eight bits]

Isn't that the point of Christianity, when you die you got to live with God and become an angel or something like an angel.

No, in typical Christianity you get your body back, just like Jesus did. So, it is not just an afterlife, but a physical afterlife. Well, physical if you don't count air, food, water, and sex. Meh.

There is, however, a diversity of Christian opinion about the status of dead people while they await the General Resurrection (that is, when human bodies will be reissued to the dead, with upgrades and repairs. Apparently, based on Jesus' experience, scars are preseved. How this will affect Rowling's Nearly Headless Nick, I am unsure.) Incorporeal spirits hanging around heaven (or whatever the appropriate individual final destination may be) is a popular option for the meantime.

The word angel names a being who never had a physical body, and won't get one in the General Resurrection. So, we might be like angels for a while in some Christian views, but we can't ever be angels.

I don't think anyone one goes to heaven or hell until the rapture, but I am most likely wrong it has been a long time since I was a Christian.

The Rapture is a different kettle of fish. There are plenty of Christians who don't believe in that, period. On the other hand, there are Christians who believe that selected people have already ascended into heaven without dying first, for example, Mary, the mother of Jesus and Isaiah.

There just isn't any Christendom-wide consensus on anybody getting to heaven without dying. Even Jesus died, after all.

[Grandpa Greenman]

I do...

And I believe in the teachings of Christ as true, not since childhood but since near 1 year ago.

I research the beliefs but have found them true at every turn, and I do not need to prove it to myself anymore.

But for the sake of theism...Christians do not become angels, they judge them after the apocalypse. Angels are not like humans, and they are assigned tasks to keep us on our way, hence the Holy Spirit. But some believe that angels will be under Christians in Heaven when the end times are done and over with.

And yes, Heaven or Hell, it's your choice.

Can you point out the scriptures where it talks about Angels and what happens after one dies?

[The Silver Thong]

If heaven and hell exist, heaven must be pretty empty. In all of gods cruelty heaven could be his final joke on man.

[TheDreamer]

Can you point out the scriptures where it talks about Angels and what happens after one dies?

To do with Hell (and some varied sins that lead you there):

2 Peter 2:4

4For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment; 5if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men 8(for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment. 10This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority.

Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings; 11yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.

Matthew 10:28

28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 5:22

22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother[a]will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Heaven:

Joshua 2:11

11 When we heard of it, our hearts melted and everyone's courage failed because of you, for the LORD your God is God in heaven above and on the earth below.

Deuteronomy 33:26

26 "There is no one like the God of Jeshurun,

who rides on the heavens to help you

and on the clouds in his majesty.

2 Samuel 22:10

10 He parted the heavens and came down;

dark clouds were under his feet.

John 14:3

3 "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am."

Matthew 26:29

29 "I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father’s kingdom."

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

"Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have not hope. We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."

Angels:

Genesis 28:12

12 He had a dream in which he saw a stairway [a] resting on the earth, with its top reaching to heaven, and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.

Job 4:18-21

18 If God places no trust in his servants,

if he charges his angels with error,

19 how much more those who live in houses of clay,

whose foundations are in the dust,

who are crushed more readily than a moth!

20 Between dawn and dusk they are broken to pieces;

unnoticed, they perish forever.

21 Are not the cords of their tent pulled up,

so that they die without wisdom?'

Psalm 103:20-25

20 Praise the LORD, you his angels,

you mighty ones who do his bidding,

who obey his word.

21 Praise the LORD, all his heavenly hosts,

you his servants who do his will.

22 Praise the LORD, all his works

everywhere in his dominion.

Praise the LORD, O my soul.

Psalm 91:11-15

11 For he will command his angels concerning you

to guard you in all your ways;

12 they will lift you up in their hands,

so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.

13 You will tread upon the lion and the cobra;

you will trample the great lion and the serpent.

14 "Because he loves me," says the LORD, "I will rescue him;

I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name.

15 He will call upon me, and I will answer him;

I will be with him in trouble,

I will deliver him and honor him.

Matthew 13:36-43

36Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field."

37He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

40"As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

Anything else? Those scripture verses are fairly straight forward. I have more scripture verses to back up the belief that angels and humans are different, what their roles are, and what are roles are, and also about the after in Heaven or Hell and how you get to either place.

A lot to read, I know, but it is worth it in the end, because you'll understand.

If you have any questions, shoot.

[TheDreamer]

If heaven and hell exist, heaven must be pretty empty. In all of gods cruelty heaven could be his final joke on man.

Why would Heaven be empty? Anyone who has accepted Christ as their Lord of their life and Saviour is saved from Hell. Christians are exempt from that consequence if, in their heart, they have accepted Christ.

God isn't cruel, we have just made up our own rules, thinking that we will be alright doing what we want.

PS: sorry for the double post, my bad.

Edited November 29, 2008 by TheDreamer

[The Silver Thong]

Why would Heaven be empty? Anyone who has accepted Christ as their Lord of their life and Saviour is saved from Hell. Christians are exempt from that consequence if, in their heart, they have accepted Christ.

God isn't cruel, we have just made up our own rules, thinking that we will be alright doing what we want.

PS: sorry for the double post, my bad.

Even a Christian isn't safe from god. One can believe in god all they want, they are not automatically accepted into heaven because of there faith alone. One has to follow the teachings of the bible and most Christians do not as the teachings are common sense and out dated.

So god isn't cruel eh, ok so god condeming the majority of the worlds population to an eternal hell is kind? Why does god need my faith? is he weak with out it? I think he is very weak with out my faith. Does he fear me in heaven because I will not bow at his feet. Is god scared of the non believer? you better believe it. God has no more power over me than Santa Clause does. Of course this is my opinion.

"God isn't cruel, we have just made up our own rules, thinking that we will be alright doing what we want."

Are you making excuses for gods behaviour?

I would like to meet gods parent and slap them for raising such an ill tempered child.

[+Paranoid Android]

There is a belief – in some groups -- that “born again Christians” will become angels and live in heaven.

What is the source for this belief?

Karlis

Hi Karlis. Before I answer the actual point of your post, I would like to make one comment about the term "born again Christian". I just wonder, because as far as I see it ALL Christians are born again. If you have accepted Christ, then you have been made into a new creation, a term which John 3 refers to as being "born again" (verses 3-5). These denominations that place the term "born again" in their denominational belief just confuse me because it's impossible to be a Christian without being born again.

That said, to answer your question, I'm not sure where the idea that Christians will become angels started. It certainly doesn't come from the Bible. The Bible specifies that we will become "children of God", adopted into his family. Angels are not part of God's family, so we will actually be in a greater position than they are. However, no one can know for certain how this will work, since no one has ever been made into a new creation yet.

Regards,

[TheDreamer]

Even a Christian isn't safe from god. One can believe in god all they want, they are not automatically accepted into heaven because of there faith alone. One has to follow the teachings of the bible and most Christians do not as the teachings are common sense and out dated.

So god isn't cruel eh, ok so god condeming the majority of the worlds population to an eternal hell is kind? Why does god need my faith? is he weak with out it? I think he is very weak with out my faith. Does he fear me in heaven because I will not bow at his feet. Is god scared of the non believer? you better believe it. God has no more power over me than Santa Clause does. Of course this is my opinion.

"God isn't cruel, we have just made up our own rules, thinking that we will be alright doing what we want."

Are you making excuses for gods behaviour?

I would like to meet gods parent and slap them for raising such an ill tempered child.

On the contrary...

Romans 3:28-30

28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.

Romans 4:5

5However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

Romans 4:23-5:1

23The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone, 24but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we[a]have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Romans 9:30

30What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith;

Romans 11:6

6And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace

We are saved by Faith alone, but to do works for the Lord we must first have faith. Through faith in Jesus Christ we should want to do works for Him. It is a response to Faith.

I'm not making excuses for God's "behavior", but simply stating the condition of our mistaken ways compared to God's way (which is pure).

Oh, and trust me when I say "God is definitely not afraid of you", because He is the creator, you are the creation...do the math.

And God doesn't want power over you, He wants you to come to Him in love and become pure. All through your own free will.

It is your choice to accept Christ or to make up your own rules. Just remember that there are consequences to the choices that you make.

Hell is reserved for those who reject God when all they have to do is accept Him, and live a good life for Him. He wants you to do His will, and it isn't like He is twisting your arm...because doing His will brings love, happiness, and well being to yourself and others.

All based on what you decide...free will.

[The Silver Thong]

On the contrary...

Romans 3:28-30

28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.

You claim that there is only one true god. I don't buy it, what gives you devine knowledge of such? Faith?

Romans 4:5

5However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

So faith and religion is a get out of jail free card, how nice

Romans 4:23-5:1

23The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone, 24but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

How nice of a god to pick and choose from his devine creation as to who is righteous, he created us all didn't he? Why would one death pay for all of humanities sins? He was gods son?

1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we[a]have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Again, you can be as bad as you want and all you have to do is accept god on your deathbed.

Romans 9:30

30What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith;

Yes by faith, but only according to your faith, the rest are screwed right?

Romans 11:6

6And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace

We are saved by Faith alone, but to do works for the Lord we must first have faith. Through faith in Jesus Christ we should want to do works for Him. It is a response to Faith.

Slavery through guilt and fear of eternal tourture.

I'm not making excuses for God's "behavior", but simply stating the condition of our mistaken ways compared to God's way (which is pure).

How do you know god is pure? he created wickedness and saw what we would do with free will right?

Oh, and trust me when I say "God is definitely not afraid of you", because He is the creator, you are the creation...do the math.

The math tells me in all probabilty, god does not exist.

And God doesn't want power over you, He wants you to come to Him in love and become pure. All through your own free will.

and if we don't, what happens

It is your choice to accept Christ or to make up your own rules. Just remember that there are consequences to the choices that you make.

I will be judged by my fellow man.

Hell is reserved for those who reject God when all they have to do is accept Him, and live a good life for Him. He wants you to do His will, and it isn't like He is twisting your arm...because doing His will brings love, happiness, and well being to yourself and others.

Making sure your own happiness comes befor gods happiness

All based on what you decide...free will.

Bingo Free will.

[momentarylapseofreason]

Why would Heaven be empty? Anyone who has accepted Christ as their Lord of their life and Saviour is saved from Hell. Christians are exempt from that consequence if, in their heart, they have accepted Christ.

God isn't cruel, we have just made up our own rules, thinking that we will be alright doing what we want.

PS: sorry for the double post, my bad.

What if you love and accept Jesus but hate his daddy ?

I mean come on, they are like night and day in their temperament.

[TheDreamer]

What if you love and accept Jesus but hate his daddy ?

I mean come on, they are like night and day in their temperament.

No, actually they aren't. Jesus Christ is God incarnate. Part of the trinity, with the Holy Spirit being the third, but they are all one. It is hard to grasp when you think about it.

Go to the link below. It sums it up pretty good (King James version is used):

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/jesusgd2.htm

[momentarylapseofreason]

On the contrary...

We are saved by Faith alone, but to do works for the Lord we must first have faith. Through faith in Jesus Christ we should want to do works for Him. It is a response to Faith.

I'm not making excuses for God's "behavior", but simply stating the condition of our mistaken ways compared to God's way (which is pure).

Oh, and trust me when I say "God is definitely not afraid of you", because He is the creator, you are the creation...do the math.

And God doesn't want power over you, He wants you to come to Him in love and become pure. All through your own free will.

It is your choice to accept Christ or to make up your own rules. Just remember that there are consequences to the choices that you make.

Hell is reserved for those who reject God when all they have to do is accept Him, and live a good life for Him. He wants you to do His will, and it isn't like He is twisting your arm...because doing His will brings love, happiness, and well being to yourself and others.

All based on what you decide...free will.

Of course you can't make excuses for god's behavior because if god had to answer to a power even greater than himself he would be persecuted or better yet locked up in an insane Asylum.

God's way is not pure so why should we be ? God acts immorally so why should he await that we act morally ? Infanticide, having young girls raped and having kids ripped up by bears for making fun of a bald man is not pure love. (as told in the bible)

Letting a place such as hell exist IS a form of twisting your arm, it is called psychological coercion. Who would choose hell if they truly believe after all ?

This also contradicts the supposed notion of god's "unconditional" love, does it not ?

If this is god's love I will pass. Thanks but no thanks. I can't like not alone love bullies.

Your idea of LOVE is very disturbing.

I believe your Jehovah is your Satan-the great deceiver after all...................

Edited November 29, 2008 by momentarylapseofreason

[momentarylapseofreason]

No, actually they aren't. Jesus Christ is God incarnate. Part of the trinity, with the Holy Spirit being the third, but they are all one. It is hard to grasp when you think about it.

Go to the link below. It sums it up pretty good (King James version is used):

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/jesusgd2.htm

I very very much disagree.

Someone had to resurrect Jesus and the fact that Jesus was talking to himself repeatedly.

The temperament & demeanor shows very clearly that Jesus was not Jehovah.