people with abnormal powers

[DrawingPics]

Not proven, not done, is not the same a proven to not exist. For all you know someone did it in the middle of nowhere but it wasn't recorded.

It is not a proven negative.

Really? But long ago, it was an almost accepted fact, until someone did it dunno now many years ago.

How do you back up a claim that there is no tap dancing cat in the Mariana Trench?

I don't. But if you say you have one, then you have one. I don't think i will say "not true". For all we know, tap dancing cats will come out soon due to the effects of television. Edited May 18, 2009 by AGoodWriter

[Codehook]

Mattshark I feel your pain.

These claims are ridiculous, never been proven (over 1000's of years, despite the fact that such a ridiculous claim would be extremely easy to prove, if true) and the individuals who make these claims do not have a very firm grasp on reality, in my opinion. I am not trying to insult anybody, so don't take that the wrong way.

I know what it's like to try to convince ignorant people that their beliefs are wrong. But when somebody believes in something, it takes a hell of a lot to prise it from them. I first came to this forum years ago with crazy ideas and beliefs, but unlike the people posting in this thread I had patience and the ability to think rationally. Eventually after reading posts from sceptics like yourself, Mattshark, I began to challenge my beliefs and disprove them and I have nothing but thanks to you guys. And that can only be done with evidence, absolute proof (in rare cases) and rational thinking. I suggest that the claimants in this thread do the same.

I think a big reason behind why sceptics like me and Mattshark are passionate about trying to convince people to think rationally and scientifically, is that the world would be helped far more by people of that nature. If we all believed in super powers and threw logic and rationality out of the window, we would get absolutely nowhere and science would never progress. I certainly don't want that kind of thinking to be allowed to breed to the point where our understanding of science is being hampered by our own ignorance.

If I were you, Mattshark, I would give up on this thread.

[DrawingPics]

Mattshark I feel your pain.

These claims are ridiculous, never been proven (over 1000's of years, despite the fact that such a ridiculous claim would be extremely easy to prove, if true) and the individuals who make these claims do not have a very firm grasp on reality, in my opinion. I am not trying to insult anybody, so don't take that the wrong way.

Don't worry I do not take it the wrong way.

I know what it's like to try to convince ignorant people that their beliefs are wrong. But when somebody believes in something, it takes a hell of a lot to prise it from them. I first came to this forum years ago with crazy ideas and beliefs, but unlike the people posting in this thread I had patience and the ability to think rationally. Eventually after reading posts from sceptics like yourself, Mattshark, I began to challenge my beliefs and disprove them and I have nothing but thanks to you guys. And that can only be done with evidence, absolute proof (in rare cases) and rational thinking. I suggest that the claimants in this thread do the same.

Correct. You may suggest. And so may we. =) But we are rarely going to listen to each other.

I think a big reason behind why sceptics like me and Mattshark are passionate about trying to convince people to think rationally and scientifically, is that the world would be helped far more by people of that nature. If we all believed in super powers and threw logic and rationality out of the window, we would get absolutely nowhere and science would never progress. I certainly don't want that kind of thinking to be allowed to breed to the point where our understanding of science is being hampered by our own ignorance.

Science is progressing? In what way?

If I were you, Mattshark, I would give up on this thread.

Many skeptics have already given up. I would like to say that mattshark still has the patience to go on, and that is very commendable. Edited May 18, 2009 by AGoodWriter

[Leonardo]

I believe you about the elbow part. But look at the 4 minute mile. People have been going about that for so long.

Proving a limitation is not the same as proving a negative.

A limitation is a thing - a 'positive' if you will, a negative is the lack of a thing.

Your '4 minute mile' analogy is false.

[DrawingPics]

Proving a limitation is not the same as proving a negative.

A limitation is a thing - a 'positive' if you will, a negative is the lack of a thing.

Your '4 minute mile' analogy is false.

Could you rephrase it please? Edited May 18, 2009 by AGoodWriter

[Kevin7557]

It doesn't work like that.... There are always 2 sides of the coin.

It's really calling the kettle black to suggest he stop posting in this thread because he disagrees with the claims made while at the same time launching ad hominem attacks against him because you disagree with him.

This quote will almost for sure result in a mod warning or edit of your post....

I guess the best alternative to being right is to attack someone you don't even know.

What's wrong with wanting proof people can do the things they claim... it would be a revolutionary discovery for mankind.

Or maybe the police and the psychics work together for bigger paychecks and it's all a scam.... You never know and to simply take someones word for it is ludicrous.

You cite ego yet you are claiming people like you are superior to him... If anyone here is guilty of original sin it's you, hypocrisy at it's finest. You should be a politician.

People like you who spend their time blaming the worlds problems on other people will be the end of our species. Matt is not ill he is just a polar opposite to you.

When it comes to illness you are in no position to claim illness at all nor diagnose illness especially online on an internet board... Any real doctor including myself will tell you that it is entirely inappropriate and completely unethical.

In regards to lobotomies it is not designed to find illness it is designed to turn people into mindless vegetables. To have a desire to do this to matt just because you disagree with what he says doesn't say a lot about you.

This entire post was filled entirely with pure hatred for Matt and was simply an attack on not only him personally but his character as well.... You should be banned for such a juvenile post.

LMAO hypocrisy is not the original sin. LMAO you speak as if you know yet you do not. LOL. FYI i have endured much worse from people like Matt Before. Psychics working together as a scam... ... ... Conspiracy of the highest order. Wow... You may have something there. Alright we will break into teams. You and Matt go investigate this great conspiracy and I will continue to not investigate this great conspiracy.

Owe the good doctor is well intentioned but I am afraid he is not... How to put this... He is morally challenged, but a great asset none the less. You can get a lobotomy as well. He is a passionate doctor though I do not know where he got his license... Though I don't really question him much. He did finally get through and I posted his message to youtube.com. Here is a link.

Message From the Good Doctor

You want to know something truly priceless here is a quote from the weblink that Matt there tried to use against me. LMAO

The two most common forms of the argument from ignorance, both fallacious, can be reduced to the following form:

Something is currently unexplained or insufficiently understood or explained, so it is not (or must not be) true.

Because there appears to be a lack of evidence for one hypothesis, another chosen hypothesis is therefore considered proven.

LMAO. I mean seriously Matt you nailed it for me thank you. You made me not have to work. ROFLMAO I mean it goes on to describe Matt Just perfectly.

Also nice rushing to his defense. Where were you when he was mocking others. You sir are worst than Matt. Tisk Tisk Tisk. You should be ashamed. Or maybe not, The Good Doctor can find out though. He loves exploratory surgery. I mean you have to sign the wavor, but it is the best way to find out about yourself... Trust me I know, it is so... so... enlightening.

[Mattshark]

LMAO hypocrisy is not the original sin. LMAO you speak as if you know yet you do not. LOL. FYI i have endured much worse from people like Matt Before. Psychics working together as a scam... ... ... Conspiracy of the highest order. Wow... You may have something there. Alright we will break into teams. You and Matt go investigate this great conspiracy and I will continue to not investigate this great conspiracy.

Owe the good doctor is well intentioned but I am afraid he is not... How to put this... He is morally challenged, but a great asset none the less. You can get a lobotomy as well. He is a passionate doctor though I do not know where he got his license... Though I don't really question him much. He did finally get through and I posted his message to youtube.com. Here is a link.

Message From the Good Doctor

You want to know something truly priceless here is a quote from the weblink that Matt there tried to use against me. LMAO

The two most common forms of the argument from ignorance, both fallacious, can be reduced to the following form:

Something is currently unexplained or insufficiently understood or explained, so it is not (or must not be) true.

Because there appears to be a lack of evidence for one hypothesis, another chosen hypothesis is therefore considered proven.

LMAO. I mean seriously Matt you nailed it for me thank you. You made me not have to work. ROFLMAO I mean it goes on to describe Matt Just perfectly.

Also nice rushing to his defense. Where were you when he was mocking others. You sir are worst than Matt. Tisk Tisk Tisk. You should be ashamed. Or maybe not, The Good Doctor can find out though. He loves exploratory surgery. I mean you have to sign the wavor, but it is the best way to find out about yourself... Trust me I know, it is so... so... enlightening.

Did I make any such claims of a conspiracy? I must have missed them.

Oh and I never said lack of evidence was proof of anything. I said I don't believe it exists because there is nothing to suggest there is and I pointed out I was willing to change my mind in lieu of evidence.

The only logical fallacy was you claims of being able to prove a negative.

[Kevin7557]

Did I make any such claims of a conspiracy? I must have missed them.

Oh and I never said lack of evidence was proof of anything. I said I don't believe it exists because there is nothing to suggest there is and I pointed out I was willing to change my mind in lieu of evidence.

The only logical fallacy was you claims of being able to prove a negative.

Owe the conspiracy is from him saying this

Or maybe the police and the psychics work together for bigger paychecks and it's all a scam.... You never know and to simply take someones word for it is ludicrous.

LOL

ANd yes you did and here is the quote

You cannot prove a negative.

and you also said this

no evidence means it can be rejected as nothing more than conjecture.

*SNIP*

Edited May 18, 2009 by Lilly
personal ad hom remarks removed

[Mattshark]

Owe the conspiracy is from him saying this

Or maybe the police and the psychics work together for bigger paychecks and it's all a scam.... You never know and to simply take someones word for it is ludicrous.

LOL

ANd yes you did and here is the quote

and you also said this

*SNIP*

Well, no evidence does mean that it can be rejected. That is subject to change upon presentation of evidence. That is how science works.

That is not the same as saying no evidence is proof of none existence.

You are misunderstanding this completely.

Edited May 18, 2009 by Lilly
removed quote

[Hermit007]

evidence is only of value when both debating parties concede its validity. Conversely, a lack of evidence isn't proof that something doesn't exist..

[Lilly]

Kevin7557, do not attack anyone personally. Focus on the the subject, no personal ad hom remarks. This will be my final informal action in this regard.

[CalamityKate]

I think it is a sad indication of the world we live in today that so many teens (and indeed older people who should know better) are desperate to feel "special" in some way and pretending/wishing to have paranormal powers is a symptom of this.

Being "psychic" seems to be becoming more and more fashionable and desirable these days. Rather like being a train driver or a policeman was years ago.

Frankly if my children ever show any evidence of these sorts of delusions, I shall be giving them a talk about living in the real world and encouraging them to apply themselves to useful ventures and studies, rather than imaginary ones - particularly since there seems to be a correlation between wanting to have "special powers" and having poor language/written English skills.

Is it that those who struggle with literacy find solace in imagining themselves to be gifted in other ways, or is it that they are so preoccupied with studying pretend abilities that they do not concentrate on their school studies? It fascinates me.

[D1CKY D1AMOND]

I think it is a sad indication of the world we live in today that so many teens (and indeed older people who should know better) are desperate to feel "special" in some way and pretending/wishing to have paranormal powers is a symptom of this.

Being "psychic" seems to be becoming more and more fashionable and desirable these days. Rather like being a train driver or a policeman was years ago.

Frankly if my children ever show any evidence of these sorts of delusions, I shall be giving them a talk about living in the real world and encouraging them to apply themselves to useful ventures and studies, rather than imaginary ones - particularly since there seems to be a correlation between wanting to have "special powers" and having poor language/written English skills.

Is it that those who struggle with literacy find solace in imagining themselves to be gifted in other ways, or is it that they are so preoccupied with studying pretend abilities that they do not concentrate on their school studies? It fascinates me.

Not all the people claiming powers here are 'slow'....

From a psychological point of view on this end it would appear to me anyway that intelligence is not the main factor. To me it simply seems that for many people the line between reality and imagination have become blurred. I actually also apply this to the religious as well who's claims are equally as delusional.

[Codehook]

I think it is a sad indication of the world we live in today that so many teens (and indeed older people who should know better) are desperate to feel "special" in some way and pretending/wishing to have paranormal powers is a symptom of this.

Being "psychic" seems to be becoming more and more fashionable and desirable these days. Rather like being a train driver or a policeman was years ago.

Frankly if my children ever show any evidence of these sorts of delusions, I shall be giving them a talk about living in the real world and encouraging them to apply themselves to useful ventures and studies, rather than imaginary ones - particularly since there seems to be a correlation between wanting to have "special powers" and having poor language/written English skills.

Is it that those who struggle with literacy find solace in imagining themselves to be gifted in other ways, or is it that they are so preoccupied with studying pretend abilities that they do not concentrate on their school studies? It fascinates me.

I strongly agree with this, although I also don't feel that it's linked with intelligence. Having 'powers' are an appealing aspect of fiction that a lot of young people desperately seem to want to bring into their own lives, and I believe it's linked to insecurity issues. Perhaps they are trying to compensate for something. I won't quote the common misconception of people with small genitals buying sports cars...because that one just doesn't hold up. But you know what I mean, something similar to that.

[aquatus1]

Members are reminded that this thread specifically assumes the existence of such powers, no matter how nonsensical the premise may be. Questioning of these skills is allowed, but the continued insistence that the entire genre does not exist will stop, as it has already been clearly stated that it is assumed for the sake of the discussion. This is not the thread for the discussion of the existence of these powers.

Back on topic.

[Kevin7557]

Well, no evidence does mean that it can be rejected. That is subject to change upon presentation of evidence. That is how science works.

That is not the same as saying no evidence is proof of none existence.

You are misunderstanding this completely.

There is nothing to misunderstand. You said what you said and then tried to make me look bad and the link you used describe yourself. Thus I did not misunderstand a thing. Misuderstanding is if I entered Niger and people assummed i was talking about black people instead of the country what you did does not even come close to a misunderstanding.

And that is all I have to say. Have a pleasent day.

[Mattshark]

There is nothing to misunderstand. You said what you said and then tried to make me look bad and the link you used describe yourself. Thus I did not misunderstand a thing. Misuderstanding is if I entered Niger and people assummed i was talking about black people instead of the country what you did does not even come close to a misunderstanding.

And that is all I have to say. Have a pleasent day.

Clearly there is a misunderstanding on your behalf and the country Niger is not pronounced or spelt the way as the derogatory team you are talking about.

I did nothing, I gave my opinion and you moaned and showed a lack of understanding of evidence and science.

Edited May 19, 2009 by Mattshark

[Leonardo]

Could you rephrase it please?

As an example, consider the statement "There are no people who can run 1 mile in 1 minute."

Asking someone to prove that would seem to be proving a negative, that there are no people who can run 1 mile in 1 minute, but what you are actually proving is that human physiology does not allow a person to run 1 mile in 1 minute. You are proving a thing (the limitation of human physiology), not the lack of a thing (that a person who can run 1 mile in 1 minute does not exist).

Now, when you replied to Mattshark with examples of "negatives that had been proved", you were not actually showing that, you were showing limitations that had been proved (and even those were incorrect, as Mattshark explained).

A limitation is not the same as a negative.

[Raistlin]

I've been following this topic since it began and all I have to say on the Matter is Wow.....simply wow. I just need to step in for a quick second. First off This thread is here based on the Assumption that these Abilities are real, no matter how outlandish they are. people here know where I stand on these issues, but I also learned a very valuable lesson while posting here which is 90% of the people on this forum like to believe they are educated sholars and have degrees in the scientific fields of such purposes. Again I say, This thread is for people to post and not feel attacked by people like (mattshark *cough*)...in the future matt do yourself a favour read the Byline on the forum post before you interject with scientific fact. I know you enjoy bringing the factual to a conversation which the FM's have stated time and again (ARE UNDER THE PREMISE THESE ABILITES ARE REAL, NOT SAYING THEY ARE BUT COULD BE). The only person in this entire thread who has had something positive and uplifting to help these people making said claims is John, so john thank you so much. back on topic, I've been reading some of the claims made here and some have been very intriguing and some do, I agree seem like a stretch but I think it's good people are airing it out to be heard. To be serious for a moment though, to all the people who want these kids making the claims of supernatural power's/abilities to prove their worth to you by either getting test's done or videotaping a series of conclusive episodes showcasing such feats well...I think you need to realise something, most of the people with abilities cannot prove much to you. I know what your thinking and yes, I know the purpose for most of the post's here are to scrye these things under a microscope, get to the bottom of a claim using science and proven theorm's and distinctive results done world over which can let you rest easier at Night. To this, I must speak up and say good luck. I mean honestly, when I was growing up still a teenager I was such a skeptic. I didn't believe anything like this was even remotely possible..finally I began to see things with my own eyes that Cannot be ignored, and I'm sorry to speak up with the truth, which is There is so many things in this world people can't see, imagine it's absolutely ridiculous. I'm going to give examples here of some thing's that have happened right in front of me for those stuck in Ignorance land

I was Home for christmas when i was 16 visiting relatives with my family which isn't out of the norm we did it every year...but this year was a tad different. My mother I found out was an Extreme Sensitive (she didn't know what it was called, she didn't even think it was real lol she just thought she had weird unrelated happen chance thoughts that weren't possible) anyway. As we were leaving my grandmother's house my mom was saying goodbye to her mother as per usual...gave her a hug and out of nowhere starting crying uncontrollably..I was taken aback since i had no idea what caused this (random was my first thought, and what the **** was my second thought). Anyway, when asked why she was crying (and I don't mean just crying I mean she was clutching her mother for dear life, like she was never going to see her again..honestly it wrenched at my own heart to see this). Anyway when asked why, my mother responded "mom, please go see the doctor tomorrow, please just do it for me right away you have Cancer please go get checked". Her mother laughed and said "i'm as healthy as a horse dear, im fine". Although I knew the truth which was seeing my grandmother's face I knew it had shaken her more than a bit. Next day We got a phone call, sure enough My grandmother had Cancer, where it came from the doctor's had no idea because she had been checked 3 months prior and was given a clean bill of health, weird right? not yet? Ok then, Years later one random night my dad was going fishing and it happened again (mom started crying again..a little different than last time however). She had told me dad to drive safe and just kept saying it...Now, where we lived at the time wasn't a bad area for accidents, very safe...to think of it now there was maybe only 2 incidents in 18+ years i lived there. My mom kept asking if the van's insurance was still intact, still good? telling my dad to watch the roads very carefully. Ok..so hours pass and by the time 8 o clock rolls around my dad get's dropped back home in a tow truck...Van was towed..My dad Hit a deer coming home from fishing. The damn van didn't even look the same, it looked more like a Moose came into contact with it playing football ffs. The front of the van was totaled completely, and I've never seen my father so shaken up, and he didn't speak to anyone for the rest of the night. yeah.. anyway I started having these years later as i Grew up and they got more and more intense when they happened, one thing lead to another and you know the rest. I hope these stories can help show some people that these abilities can happen to anyone.

Again, thank you to the people on the forum who respond with positive feedback and bring a light to conversations which are Much needed, have a good night all.

[Codehook]

**5c. Appeal: If you disagree with action taken against your account by a member of staff you can appeal the decision by contacting either the member of staff who took said action or an administrator privately via e-mail or through our private message system. Please do not use the forum or chat room to criticise or complain about moderator actions, to discuss member bans or to start a petition or protest against any action that has been taken.**

Edited May 19, 2009 by aquatus1

[Raistlin]

Also, Raistlin nobody is claiming to be anything of what you said at the beginning of your post. We are using rational thought. So I would ask you to try to respect others instead of accusing them of trying to be something that they are not.

Cheers.

Then you read what I wrote wrong, or misconstrued my point. My apologies.

[DrawingPics]

As an example, consider the statement "There are no people who can run 1 mile in 1 minute."

Asking someone to prove that would seem to be proving a negative, that there are no people who can run 1 mile in 1 minute, but what you are actually proving is that human physiology does not allow a person to run 1 mile in 1 minute. You are proving a thing (the limitation of human physiology), not the lack of a thing (that a person who can run 1 mile in 1 minute does not exist).

Now, when you replied to Mattshark with examples of "negatives that had been proved", you were not actually showing that, you were showing limitations that had been proved (and even those were incorrect, as Mattshark explained).

A limitation is not the same as a negative.

But then, couldn't negatives be incorrect as well? But that will be until that can be proved, correct?

Edited May 19, 2009 by AGoodWriter

[Mattshark]

But then, couldn't negatives be incorrect as well? But that will be until that can be proved, correct?

Yes, but because you cannot prove something doesn't exist the only verification is to prove it does exist.

Edited May 19, 2009 by Mattshark

[Master Sunfire]

I have telepathic and clairvoyent abilitys and also push thoughts into peoples minds. its kinda scary.

[Master Sunfire]

Kevin7557, do not attack anyone personally. Focus on the the subject, no personal ad hom remarks. This will be my final informal action in this regard.

everyone is psychic, read about the pineal gland that the forces of evil try to calsify in us so we cant use it.