Scientific Proof of the Supernatural

[Dave210]

Here is a scenario I would like you to consider. I also have a hunch that this scenario could have been the force that put the wobble into the Earth’s total motion when the solar system was put back into play again. The Creator always has control over His Creation.

Hypothesis: Given that the movement of our Sun in the solar system is abruptly and completely stopped, and suspended in space, the resulting movement of the Earth would break free from the Ecliptic and continue in its upward path and natural rotation. This resulting movement of the Earth would agree with Newton’s laws of motion, and with the natural law of conservation of angular momentum.

I believe that God has left us with a scientific (natural) proof of the (supernatural) cause of the three hour period of darkness, which occurred when Jesus was crucified. It is not a natural cause, since a solar eclipse is naturally impossible during the full moon of Passover. Given that the scenario mentioned above began at noon Jerusalem time, it is my belief that an eclipse would have occurred within several minutes, when the Earth’s Southern Hemisphere would have eclipsed the Sun’s light headed for the Earth’s Northern Hemisphere. It is my further belief that many countries within the Mediterranean area would have experienced this darkness. Furthermore, I believe that the relative position of the Sun from Jerusalem’s vantage point at the time of the eclipse would have been around the ninth hour (around 3 p.m. position in the sky), with a defection of the sun’s usual path as well. In other words, it appeared as though three hours had elapsed (time perceived by Sun’s position in the sky) in a period of only several minutes (time perceived by the actual rotation of the Earth).

In my anticipated book, "Jesus Christ, Son of God, Lamb of God", I write:

Let us now briefly look at the events that occurred on Thursday, [Nisan 14] of Holy Week. Jesus was crucified at nine o’clock in the morning. Three hours later, beginning at noon, God’s Prophetic Word began to be fulfilled. At this time, the Sun began to go down as perceived from the Earth. [Amos 8.9] In all actuality, it was the Earth rising upward as the Sun stood still. [Amos 8.8] [Job 9.6] This phenomenon was accomplished through the following two Acts of God. First, the Finger of God miraculously held down the Sun, and prevented it from rising. [Job 9.7] Second, the Earth’s momentum was conserved during this time, which allowed the Earth to continue in its upward path and natural rotation. This was a direct result of God’s natural laws instituted at the time of Creation.

As the Sun at first, seemed to go down quickly in the sky, Jesus cried out to God when its position was determined to be at the ninth hour. [Mk 15.34] In reality, the time was shortly after the sixth hour. It appeared as though three hours had elapsed in a period of only several minutes. Shortly thereafter, the Earth’s Southern Hemisphere eclipsed the Sun’s light heading for the Earth’s Northern Hemisphere. [Lk 23.45] Most of the more reliable and ancient texts seem to favor the interpretation of an eclipse. However, this interpretation has often baffled the scholars, since a solar eclipse is naturally impossible during the full moon. Then about the ninth hour, while darkness covered the whole land, Jesus cried out to God a second time. [Matt 27.46] Therefore, Jesus’ first cry to God occurred during the daytime, and His second cry to God occurred during the night season, thus fulfilling the Messianic Prophecy in [Psalm 22.2].

This was the sign that Jesus had promised to the Pharisees when they had asked for a sign from heaven. [Matt 16.1]; [Mk 8.11]; [Lk 11.16] This sign from heaven occurred as the religious feasts were about to begin. [Amos 8.10]; [Matt 26.5]; [Mk 14.2]; [Jn 18.28] This sign from heaven caused a midday darkness. [Amos 8.9]; [Matt 27.45]; [Mk 15.33]; [Lk 23.44] Finally, this sign from heaven caused an earthquake. [Amos 8.8]; [Matt 27.51,54] Therefore, I conclude that God’s Prophetic Word in [Amos 8.7-10] was fulfilled beginning at noon on the day of Christ’s Crucifixion, and that it also played an essential role in the fulfillment of the Messianic Prophecy in [Psalm 22.2], as well as in the fulfillment of Simeon's Prophecy in [Lk 2.34].

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

Here is a scenario I would like you to consider. I also have a hunch that this scenario could have been the force that put the wobble into the Earth’s total motion when the solar system was put back into play again. The Creator always has control over His Creation.

Hypothesis: Given that the movement of our Sun in the solar system is abruptly and completely stopped, and suspended in space, the resulting movement of the Earth would break free from the Ecliptic and continue in its upward path and natural rotation. This resulting movement of the Earth would agree with Newton’s laws of motion, and with the natural law of conservation of angular momentum.

I believe that God has left us with a scientific (natural) proof of the (supernatural) cause of the three hour period of darkness, which occurred when Jesus was crucified. It is not a natural cause, since a solar eclipse is naturally impossible during the full moon of Passover. Given that the scenario mentioned above began at noon Jerusalem time, it is my belief that an eclipse would have occurred within several minutes, when the Earth’s Southern Hemisphere would have eclipsed the Sun’s light headed for the Earth’s Northern Hemisphere. It is my further belief that many countries within the Mediterranean area would have experienced this darkness. Furthermore, I believe that the relative position of the Sun from Jerusalem’s vantage point at the time of the eclipse would have been around the ninth hour (around 3 p.m. position in the sky), with a defection of the sun’s usual path as well. In other words, it appeared as though three hours had elapsed (time perceived by Sun’s position in the sky) in a period of only several minutes (time perceived by the actual rotation of the Earth).

In my anticipated book, "Jesus Christ, Son of God, Lamb of God", I write:

Let us now briefly look at the events that occurred on Thursday, [Nisan 14] of Holy Week. Jesus was crucified at nine o’clock in the morning. Three hours later, beginning at noon, God’s Prophetic Word began to be fulfilled. At this time, the Sun began to go down as perceived from the Earth. [Amos 8.9] In all actuality, it was the Earth rising upward as the Sun stood still. [Amos 8.8] [Job 9.6] This phenomenon was accomplished through the following two Acts of God. First, the Finger of God miraculously held down the Sun, and prevented it from rising. [Job 9.7] Second, the Earth’s momentum was conserved during this time, which allowed the Earth to continue in its upward path and natural rotation. This was a direct result of God’s natural laws instituted at the time of Creation.

As the Sun at first, seemed to go down quickly in the sky, Jesus cried out to God when its position was determined to be at the ninth hour. [Mk 15.34] In reality, the time was shortly after the sixth hour. It appeared as though three hours had elapsed in a period of only several minutes. Shortly thereafter, the Earth’s Southern Hemisphere eclipsed the Sun’s light heading for the Earth’s Northern Hemisphere. [Lk 23.45] Most of the more reliable and ancient texts seem to favor the interpretation of an eclipse. However, this interpretation has often baffled the scholars, since a solar eclipse is naturally impossible during the full moon. Then about the ninth hour, while darkness covered the whole land, Jesus cried out to God a second time. [Matt 27.46] Therefore, Jesus’ first cry to God occurred during the daytime, and His second cry to God occurred during the night season, thus fulfilling the Messianic Prophecy in [Psalm 22.2].

This was the sign that Jesus had promised to the Pharisees when they had asked for a sign from heaven. [Matt 16.1]; [Mk 8.11]; [Lk 11.16] This sign from heaven occurred as the religious feasts were about to begin. [Amos 8.10]; [Matt 26.5]; [Mk 14.2]; [Jn 18.28] This sign from heaven caused a midday darkness. [Amos 8.9]; [Matt 27.45]; [Mk 15.33]; [Lk 23.44] Finally, this sign from heaven caused an earthquake. [Amos 8.8]; [Matt 27.51,54] Therefore, I conclude that God’s Prophetic Word in [Amos 8.7-10] was fulfilled beginning at noon on the day of Christ’s Crucifixion, and that it also played an essential role in the fulfillment of the Messianic Prophecy in [Psalm 22.2], as well as in the fulfillment of Simeon's Prophecy in [Lk 2.34].

If that's science then I'm a jedi master. It certainly is possible, provided one has faith in the bible. But science? Negative ghost rider.

[The Silver Thong]

If quotes from the bible prove god then ya the planet wobbles due to god. Screw science I'm convinced

doh just noticed a spelling error

Edited December 3, 2008 by The Silver Thong

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

This dude can't be serious... right? If so, BUY MY NEW BOOK ENTITLED "SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF SHREK AND THE SIMILARITIES OF JESUS AND SPIDERMAN."

[Chauncy]

So in order for this theory to be even close to entertainable the Sun would firstly have to be "abruptly and completely stopped, and suspended in space" and then "the Earth would break free from the Ecliptic and continue in its upward path and natural rotation." ???

The opening hypothesis starts off with these extraordinary events as a "given"......the sun stopping abruptly and suspended in that spot......but what ever force stopped the Sun's movement doesn't effect the Earth cause it continues with its normal movement to only break free from its ecliptic.

Sounds like another example of a religious person trying to reconcile their beliefs with contradictory scientific facts.

When you take evidence and draw conclusions from it , that is scientific. When you form a conclusion and then try to find evidence to support it, that is shoe-fitting.

I'm sure your book will be a hot seller.......in specific circles.

[Dave210]

If that's science then I'm a jedi master. It certainly is possible, provided one has faith in the bible. But science? Negative ghost rider.

Science is cause and effect. I gave you the cause, and I gave you the effect. It has been well documented by secular authorities (Thallus - Histories, vol.3, 52 A.D.), (Phlegon - Chronicles, ca. 140 A.D. - Olympiads, 138 A.D.), (Philopon - De Opif, Mund. II 21), (The Report of Pontius Pilate to Tiberius Caesar) that an eclipse of the sun took place during the full moon. This is naturally impossible, yet a Samaritan historian, some heathen authors, and some politicians have all agreed that there was an eclipse of the sun at this time. It is my opinion that these men did not have faith in the bible. What is your scientific cause for the effect that they recorded?

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

Science is cause and effect. I gave you the cause, and I gave you the effect. It has been well documented by secular authorities (Thallus - Histories, vol.3, 52 A.D.), (Phlegon - Chronicles, ca. 140 A.D. - Olympiads, 138 A.D.), (Philopon - De Opif, Mund. II 21), (The Report of Pontius Pilate to Tiberius Caesar) that an eclipse of the sun took place during the full moon. This is naturally impossible, yet a Samaritan historian, some heathen authors, and some politicians have all agreed that there was an eclipse of the sun at this time. It is my opinion that these men did not have faith in the bible. What is your scientific cause for the effect that they recorded?

Science is based upon the scientific method, which you have not applied. Go peddle your book elsewhere.

[Dave210]

Science is based upon the scientific method, which you have not applied. Go peddle your book elsewhere.

Scientific method

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Scientific method refers to bodies of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge. To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning.[1] A scientific method consists of the collection of data through observation and experimentation, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses.[2]

Although procedures vary from one field of inquiry to another, identifiable features distinguish scientific inquiry from other methodologies of knowledge. Scientific researchers propose hypotheses as explanations of phenomena, and design experimental studies to test these hypotheses. These steps must be repeatable in order to dependably predict any future results. Theories that encompass wider domains of inquiry may bind many hypotheses together in a coherent structure. This in turn may help form new hypotheses or place groups of hypotheses into context.

I have collected my data, (observations of a secular historian, and observations of heathen writers, and observations of secular politicians), and I have formed my hypothesis. You are correct that the hypothesis has not been tested yet, but that is simply a matter of time and money. It will be simulated on a computer, and subjected to specific principles of scientific reasoning. Then you will have no basis to refute it, just as now you have no basis to scientifically refute Newton's laws of motion.

[AlexG]

Scientific method

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Scientific method refers to bodies of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge. To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning.[1] A scientific method consists of the collection of data through observation and experimentation, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses.[2]

Although procedures vary from one field of inquiry to another, identifiable features distinguish scientific inquiry from other methodologies of knowledge. Scientific researchers propose hypotheses as explanations of phenomena, and design experimental studies to test these hypotheses. These steps must be repeatable in order to dependably predict any future results. Theories that encompass wider domains of inquiry may bind many hypotheses together in a coherent structure. This in turn may help form new hypotheses or place groups of hypotheses into context.

I have collected my data, (observations of a secular historian, and observations of heathen writers, and observations of secular politicians), and I have formed my hypothesis. You are correct that the hypothesis has not been tested yet, but that is simply a matter of time and money. It will be simulated on a computer, and subjected to specific principles of scientific reasoning. Then you will have no basis to refute it, just as now you have no basis to scientifically refute Newton's laws of motion.

It's pretty obvious from what you've posted so far that you have little to no knowledge about how the physical universe operates.

[Bender Rodríguez]

I lol'd.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

Scientific method

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Scientific method refers to bodies of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge. To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning.[1] A scientific method consists of the collection of data through observation and experimentation, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses.[2]

Although procedures vary from one field of inquiry to another, identifiable features distinguish scientific inquiry from other methodologies of knowledge. Scientific researchers propose hypotheses as explanations of phenomena, and design experimental studies to test these hypotheses. These steps must be repeatable in order to dependably predict any future results. Theories that encompass wider domains of inquiry may bind many hypotheses together in a coherent structure. This in turn may help form new hypotheses or place groups of hypotheses into context.

I have collected my data, (observations of a secular historian, and observations of heathen writers, and observations of secular politicians), and I have formed my hypothesis. You are correct that the hypothesis has not been tested yet, but that is simply a matter of time and money. It will be simulated on a computer, and subjected to specific principles of scientific reasoning. Then you will have no basis to refute it, just as now you have no basis to scientifically refute Newton's laws of motion.

[Mattshark]

So let me get this straight, you are trying to prove what the bible says by using the bible? Because using it in the explanitory context you have suggests that.

Well on those grounds I claim we live on a disc held up by 4 elephants on the back of a giant turtle. I have numerous books to back that one up.

This is not science. Do you have proof of Jesus or God for example? Because as soon as you imply either of them you in the realm of conjecture and you have left science far behind.

Edited December 3, 2008 by Mattshark

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

So let me get this straight, you are trying to prove what the bible says by using the bible? Because using it in the explanitory context you have suggests that.

Well on those grounds I claim we live on a disc held up by 4 elephants on the back of a giant turtle. I have numerous books to back that one up.

This is not science. Do you have proof of Jesus or God for example? Because as soon as you imply either of them you in the realm of conjecture and you have left science far behind.

I don't have a problem with what this guy wants to believe here. I have a problem with him calling it science, and then referring to the bible as evidence, or to some other "heathen" source. These people believed in sea monsters too, among other things. I wouldn't exactly call his source credible. Finally, he's on here hawkin' is doggone B.S. book, when even he admits he hasn't completed his "scientific" research. I call shenanigans guys. This dude can't be serious. Faith in christianity is fine, but this is NOT science in any way shape or form. He's screwin' with us. SHENANIGANS!!!!!!

[Emma_Acid]

Hypothesis: Given that the movement of our Sun in the solar system is abruptly and completely stopped, and suspended in space, the resulting movement of the Earth would break free from the Ecliptic and continue in its upward path and natural rotation. This resulting movement of the Earth would agree with Newton’s laws of motion, and with the natural law of conservation of angular momentum.

The earth isn't held in place by the sun's movements. It is held by its mass.

You got one thing right though - using the word "hypothesis" rather than "theory". Well done.

I believe that God has left us with a scientific (natural) proof of the (supernatural) cause of the three hour period of darkness, which occurred when Jesus was crucified. It is not a natural cause, since a solar eclipse is naturally impossible during the full moon of Passover.

Regardless of any current knoweldge of historical eclipses, you can't use the bible as a historical reference. You simply can't.

What is more likely - that god stopped the sun, causing the earth to "continue in its upward path and natural rotation" (whatever that means) and making the sky go dark in mourning for his only son, OR it was embellished by the writers of the New Testament years after the actual event happened, if it ever happened.

I know which one is more likely. You can continue to believe what you want to believe, but don't try and twist science around the bible, the two simply don't fit.

[The One Who Is]

How about the part where the Earth freezes like an ice cube when out of the sun's warmth? I've always wondered how long that would take, never bothered to calculate it though.

[bleedingelite]

Look, it's admirable that folks like you are still out there fighting to prove your religious beliefs on a quantifiable level. The fact is that it's not going to happen, and certainly not through statements like "God held the sun still to create an eclipse." The universe as we know it is in a constant state of motion, with planets revolving around our sun, which is revolving with other stars across the milky way, which is traveling with other galaxies in some sort of super cluster and so on and so forth. To hold our sun still would be a feat of such massive magnitude that I can't logically believe that such an act would be worth proving a point with three minutes of darkness. Why wouldn't God just block the sunlight with his hand instead?

[The Silver Thong]

How about the part where the Earth freezes like an ice cube when out of the sun's warmth? I've always wondered how long that would take, never bothered to calculate it though.

That would be when planet "X" enters orbit around the sun and blocks the sun for 18.2354 days on dec 12 th 2012 or so I heard lol

[eight bits]

Why wouldn't God just block the sunlight with his hand instead?

Indeed. But then why didn't he just accept that Mom and Dad pinched his apples and get over it? Like a grown-up might do?

[Chauncy]

Science is cause and effect. I gave you the cause, and I gave you the effect. It has been well documented by secular authorities (Thallus - Histories, vol.3, 52 A.D.), (Phlegon - Chronicles, ca. 140 A.D. - Olympiads, 138 A.D.), (Philopon - De Opif, Mund. II 21), (The Report of Pontius Pilate to Tiberius Caesar) that an eclipse of the sun took place during the full moon. This is naturally impossible, yet a Samaritan historian, some heathen authors, and some politicians have all agreed that there was an eclipse of the sun at this time. It is my opinion that these men did not have faith in the bible. What is your scientific cause for the effect that they recorded?

I thought that a full moon , or new moon, was needed in order for a solar eclipse to take place. That the alleged supernatural event that you are implying is deemed supernatural because it took place during the crucifiction.....the only reason that you think this is supernatural is because Christians assert that Jesus died in April.....which , due to the positioning of the Earth and Moon in the time of that season.....a solar eclipse cannot happen......hence your hypothesis of supernatural godly intervention.

Did you ever consider first that possibly the manner in which we count , the manner in which our calender is set up, that miscalculations might be the cause. I mean to hypothesise responsibly , these things should be looked at with as much fervor as you utilized in attempts to confirm the existance of the Christian God.

It seems more likely that if the eclipse happened, or the event of Jesus's death happened as you described......it more than logically did not happen in April.

You don't really think Jesus was born on December 25th aswell do you?

[+HerNibs]

If quotes from the bible prove god then ya the planet wobbles due to god. Screw science I'm convinced

doh just noticed a spelling error

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quick, read some Douglas Adams! Come back to the dark side! We have cookies!

HN

[ravergirl]

This dude can't be serious... right? If so, BUY MY NEW BOOK ENTITLED "SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF SHREK AND THE SIMILARITIES OF JESUS AND SPIDERMAN."

The dude might be serious, and discussing it and trying to understand WHY he is serious instead of immediately disagreeing and reacting with sciencism reactions, might get you furthur, unless you just like p***ing people off by insulting the time they spent referencing and typing stuff you don't agree with. It is a discussion forum, and thats what we do here.

Th the OP nice ORiginal post. hopefully I will have something better to offer conversation wise when I finshe the thread.

[The One Who Is]

The dude might be serious, and discussing it and trying to understand WHY he is serious instead of immediately disagreeing and reacting with sciencism reactions, might get you furthur, unless you just like p***ing people off by insulting the time they spent referencing and typing stuff you don't agree with. It is a discussion forum, and thats what we do here.

Th the OP nice ORiginal post. hopefully I will have something better to offer conversation wise when I finshe the thread.

The heck is up with you and bashing "sciencism"?

The title of the thread says Scientific Proof. You know, that might be why people are responding scientifically.

By the way, no, this is not scientific proof, nor really the scientific method, alas.

[ravergirl]

The heck is up with you and bashing "sciencism"?

The title of the thread says Scientific Proof. You know, that might be why people are responding scientifically.

By the way, no, this is not scientific proof, nor really the scientific method, alas.

did you just say bashing Sciencism? is that like 'bashing christianity'? I say sir, did you just concede science to be a religion?

To the OP: this is what I think. Keep in mind that I believe and God and I hope for a meeting of the minds SOMEDAY instead of the outright fights between science and religious ideals.

Ok I am ready.

Using biblical references to prove biblical principles is like using a meatloaf recipe to make meatloaf. Yes you will get the answers that you are looking for but they will only be held up in a biblical paradigm. If we look back into the past we can see that interpreting the movements of the stars and planets is exactly what it sounds like, Interpretation. Civilizations all over the world have looked at the sky and recieved different messages from the same thing. Biblical interpretation is the same.

If scientists really did REALLY did find evidence and not interpretation of supernatural activity, this would hold more water. Anything less than that sort of investigative and material evidence will fall flat as intriguing as it might be. And it is intriguing.

I feel that if believers of God would stop trying to manipulate science to follow the path se in their chosen religious text, and followed the method that is standard in science that they will eventually find the evidence they are looking for.

The Bible says "He who have ears let him hear" and also "He who have eyes let him see"

I interpret that (out of context of course) to mean that the 2 communities have to listen to each other, because there is much to be learned....But trying to FORCE science to show something that is can't or can't yet, isn't fair.

[Emma_Acid]

reacting with sciencism

What a strange phrase. Almost as bad as someone being "accused of atheism", something I hear from time to time.

Edited December 3, 2008 by Emma_Acid

[ravergirl]

What a strange phrase. Almost as bad as someone being "accused of atheism", something I hear from time to time.

It is a reference to the conversation that I believe that you participated in last week when I asked if science could be considered a religion. Topic got locked.....The above phrase is something that 'we' and I do mean people who are funny, like to call a 'joke'

thanks for playing.