DMT

[Ziggy Stardust]

Salvia is also legal here in New Zealand, though I haven't tried it. The fact of the matter is that you can walk out of entheogenic experiences better off than you entered them - on the condition that you use the substance responsibly. Either the government doesn't trust us to do this, or doesn't understand that this is the case.

DMT is deemed 'the spirit molecule' and seems to be the ultimate drug when it comes to the pursuit of spiritual enlightenment through psychoactive substances.

From what I gather, Salvia is actually far more intense than marijuana, yet marijuana remains illegal. Perhaps we will see a loosening of drug laws in the future?

[RobertoIlias]

dont count on it... I dont know about new zealand but in America we're far too concerned with winning the "war on drugs"

[Ziggy Stardust]

dont count on it... I dont know about new zealand but in America we're far too concerned with winning the "war on drugs"

And, to be fair, we can't blame the government for wanting to fight it. Usually, a person on drugs (many of which are addictive) cannot (within reason) function normally. They cannot pay the bills. They may pose a threat to society or be liable to endanger themselves. Any responsible government would object to drug use - but there are some substances which are not addictive, do not cause harm with short or long-term use, and can actually increase spiritual well-being, e.g mescaline, which due to being caught in the drug umbrella are perhaps wrongfully outlawed.

[BurnSide]

That's interesting, I didn't know that about New Zealand. That's good to know.

Yes, Salvia is FAR more intense than Marijuana. The two can't really be grouped into the same category, unless it's a category of smokable substances.

Smoking Salvia is very interesting. Again, it's legal, which is very odd. But one of the reasons it's legal in my understanding is it's not something one could possibly get addicted to, or even use recreationally. It's about a 10 minute high, the most notable effect being 'Salvia Gravity'. You can't move, everything seems to be flat, like the Gravity in this new state is so strong that your entire body and mind is reduced to two dimensions. Your tongue even feels flat, and you can't talk, until it slowly lets go and you can force yourself up out of that gravity pull, tongue first, fingers next, etc.

The other thing is, well with some people at least, they can have a trip in that ten minutes that seems to last several lifetimes of the earth itself. A friend of mine reported an experience where he simply found himself in a blank universe, and realised he was the lone existant force and had to recreate the entire universe himself from scratch. Bringing the rock back into existance, the grass and trees, the animals, the civilizations, etc, and he spent a billion years doing this. And when it was perfect he should outside his incredible creation and realized it was wrong, he forgot the negative in existance, and it exploded, and he had to start again. Another billion years. And finally it was ready, he finished his creation, and came out of the trip.

Whoa. It changed his life forever.

Personally, i've smoked a lot of it, well, three times. And never experienced more than the gravity. So different minds, different trips etc.

But i digress, back to your point. How is Marijuana illegal, and Salvia not? Well, how is alcohol legal, or cigarettes, and Marijuana not? The truth is, the government has yet to find a way to control and market the substance. And they're stubborn as hell. The government cannot suddenly come out and say 'we're wrong, this is actually legal'. But when they can find a way to completely seize the possible assets of legalizing and taxing MJ, it'll be legalized.

How are the laws in NZ towards Marijuana? In Canada, it's practically a legal substance. Decriminalized, at very least. Trafficing is illegal, but smoking a doob? Hell, we have a national holiday, April 20th, to smoke pot on law enforcement/political grounds.

[BurnSide]

Ooof. I'm drunk and rambly, and that turned into a much longer post than I intended, I apologize.

I have never tried mesculine. Your opinion of it seems high, Ziggy.

[drakonwick]

Okay, this thread seems to have gotten a little out of hand!

Anyway, our body has small quantities of tryptamine which is analogous to the neurotransmitter serotonin.

DMT is a psychodelic, mind altering drug, for which does have serious side effects such as, (effecting

blood pressure, ecclerated heart rate!) These are matters that should be of serious concern. DMT should

only be authorized for use by a trained doctor or physician.

Edit: Spelling

Edited December 14, 2008 by Moro

[BurnSide]

DMT should

only be authorized for use by a trained doctor or physician.

I completely agree. This would be a very responsible and reasonable way to use DMT. Good call.

Okay, this thread seems to have gotten a little out of hand!

Unfortunately, you're also right. As a Moderator on this site, athough i find nothing wrong in discussing the subject, I cannot partake in this discussion more than I have, unfortunately.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Burnside, Salvia sounds very interesting, and given its legality here in NZ I'll probably end up trying it. It is bizarre how varied its effects seem to be - from life-changing other-wordly experiences to little more than a few altered sensations.

As for mescaline, I do think very highly of it. However I would not encourage anyone to do it, considering it is a class A drug. Artificially synthesized mescaline should be avoided when it can be ingested by drinking the juice from a san pedro cactus. Even this activity, however, seems to be illegal in most parts of the world. Canada may be different. Anyway, I'd put it on a list of things to do before you die.

[drakonwick]

I completely agree. This would be a very responsible and reasonable way to use DMT. Good call.

Unfortunately, you're also right. As a Moderator on this site, athough i find nothing wrong in discussing the subject, I cannot partake in this discussion more than I have, unfortunately.

There is nothing wrong with conversing about drugs, such as DMT. (or any drug for that matter!)

I just feel that matters of the problems these drugs can cause should be noted and of a concern.

Simply put, I just care for the well being of others that read/post on this forum.

[drakonwick]

Burnside, Salvia sounds very interesting, and given its legality here in NZ I'll probably end up trying it. It is bizarre how varied its effects seem to be - from life-changing other-wordly experiences to little more than a few altered sensations.

As for mescaline, I do think very highly of it. However I would not encourage anyone to do it, considering it is a class A drug. Artificially synthesized mescaline should be avoided when it can be ingested by drinking the juice from a san pedro cactus. Even this activity, however, seems to be illegal in most parts of the world. Canada may be different. Anyway, I'd put it on a list of things to do before you die.

Salvia, The Diviners Sage! That is some interesting stuff there. I have read quite a bit about it through spanish history.

[BurnSide]

However I would not encourage anyone to do it, considering it is a class A drug.

I appreciate that. It's good to hear your point of view on substances, but we need to steer clear of encouraging others to try anything.

However if you do end up trying Salvia, which i feel at liberty to discuss since it's legal in most countries including this websites country of origin, best of luck to you. Do your research. Remember that it generally takes several attempts to recieve any kind of insight or 'trip' and.. well you seem like a very level headed fellow, you don't need me telling you to be careful.

There is nothing wrong with conversing about drugs, such as DMT. (or any drug for that matter!)

I just feel that matters of the problems these drugs can cause should be noted and of a concern.

Simply put, I just care for the well being of others that read/post on this forum.

Well, discussions about illegal substances are in general against the Terms of Service of this website, due to legal complications that could arise within the country the website is based out of (The UK).

However it's great that you're interested in educating for the sake of safety and concern. However we need to keep in mind that this is a family site, and many impressionable youngsters also read these threads.

[drakonwick]

Well, discussions about illegal substances are in general against the Terms of Service of this website, due to legal complications that could arise within the country the website is based out of (The UK).

However it's great that you're interested in educating for the sake of safety and concern. However we need to keep in mind that this is a family site, and many impressionable youngsters also read these threads.

This I can understand! legal matters are different across the world. But, for the sake of safety matters, rules should be applied.

[eight bits]

Hallucinations are an ordinary and natural part of a properly functioning nervous system. There is a gross similarity among the typical contents of dreams, hallucinations, and acute psychotic breaks. Studied with insightful care, those contents potentially reveal quite a lot about reality, and humanity's place within it.

However, it is altogether unsurprising that the same chemical insult to the same neural architecture will elicit similar hallucinatory responses.

To promote drug abuse because this similarity reveals another reality is like advocating steroid abuse, equally reliable in its effects, because the real natural physique of women was epitomized by the former East German women's swim team.

To congratulate yourself on the vastness of your spiritual attainment because you have had a drug overdose? Priceless.

Edited December 14, 2008 by eight bits

[BurnSide]

hahahah.

That last line was beautiful. And, sums up my roommate to an absolute T.

I've since, with my friends, intervened in his abuse and am happy to say he has sought professional help and no longer believes.. well.. in spiritual enlightenment through overdose as you said. Thankfully.

[Mattshark]

have you ever done dmt? I'm sure not so just shut******up till you have actually experienced it.

Oh I'm sorry, since when does using a drug make you an expert on it physiological effects?

[LaVaughn]

DMT, or dimethyltryptamine, has been used by shamans for thousands of years, in the form of ayahuasca. It isn't done for fun or recreation. It's work and they only do it when they need new information to deal with a problem confronting the tribe. (See Harner: "Hallucinogens and Shamanism"). I highly recommend Graham Hancock's "Supernatural," which explores the use of ayahuasca, straight DMT, and numerous other hallucinogens in shamanic use. The book is breathtaking in its scope and makes a strong case for the use of plant teachers.

It is a naturally occurring brain chemical, but it's produced in very small quantities. It is also produced in plants, but there's a digestive enzyme that deactivates it. The ayahuasca vine actually suppresses the enzyme so it's mixed with DMT producing plants to create the drink used by the shaman. Those of us who work with shamanic tools believe those visions are quite real, although there are ways of accessing non-ordinary reality that require no hallucinogens; like a drum beat of 7 cycles per second, for instance. Drumming is, of course, legal and fairly safe, although it's a good idea to learn how to journey and the safeguards associated with entering and leaving non-ordinary reality; how to work with spirit guides and how to move through that reality respectfully and without damage to it or to you.

[Mattshark]

DMT, or dimethyltryptamine, has been used by shamans for thousands of years, in the form of ayahuasca. It isn't done for fun or recreation. It's work and they only do it when they need new information to deal with a problem confronting the tribe. (See Harner: "Hallucinogens and Shamanism"). I highly recommend Graham Hancock's "Supernatural," which explores the use of ayahuasca, straight DMT, and numerous other hallucinogens in shamanic use. The book is breathtaking in its scope and makes a strong case for the use of plant teachers.

It is a naturally occurring brain chemical, but it's produced in very small quantities. It is also produced in plants, but there's a digestive enzyme that deactivates it. The ayahuasca vine actually suppresses the enzyme so it's mixed with DMT producing plants to create the drink used by the shaman. Those of us who work with shamanic tools believe those visions are quite real, although there are ways of accessing non-ordinary reality that require no hallucinogens; like a drum beat of 7 cycles per second, for instance. Drumming is, of course, legal and fairly safe, although it's a good idea to learn how to journey and the safeguards associated with entering and leaving non-ordinary reality; how to work with spirit guides and how to move through that reality respectfully and without damage to it or to you.

That would a be a trance.

In a trance you get decreased brain activity and increased suggestibility.

Really mind expanding

[TSS]

That would a be a trance.

In a trance you get decreased brain activity and increased suggestibility.

Really mind expanding

Depends how you define mind expanding.

[Mattshark]

Depends how you define mind expanding.

Well putting toxic chemical in large doses into your brain certainly ain't. It is actually damaging your brain.

[TSS]

Well putting toxic chemical in large doses into your brain certainly ain't. It is actually damaging your brain.

It's an individual thing, mind expansion. As you've never tried it you can't judge the depth of mind expansion for the individual.

[LaVaughn]

That would a be a trance.

In a trance you get decreased brain activity and increased suggestibility.

Really mind expanding

No. It doesn't decrease brain activity. It decreases beta brainwave activity. It actually slows the brain to lower alpha and upper theta range activity. In other words, the range we experience when we dream. It also increases interhemispheric communication; that is to say, it brings together our two brains so that we begin to experience whole brain awareness and move out of dualistic consciousness.

I must also note that you describe DMT as toxic to the brain. Odd, since the brain actually produces it.

[Mattshark]

It's an individual thing, mind expansion. As you've never tried it you can't judge the depth of mind expansion for the individual.

Yes but the thing is, the reality is, it shuts you mind down.

[Mattshark]

No. It doesn't decrease brain activity. It decreases beta brainwave activity. It actually slows the brain to lower alpha and upper theta range activity. In other words, the range we experience when we dream. It also increases interhemispheric communication; that is to say, it brings together our two brains so that we begin to experience whole brain awareness and move out of dualistic consciousness.

I must also note that you describe DMT as toxic to the brain. Odd, since the brain actually produces it.

Yes it decreases you brain actually doing anything and makes you more likely believe that insignificant things are significant. It shuts decreases the thinking part of your brain. It makes you stupid.

Your brain produces lots of toxins what is your point? The amount in you brain is tiny. Tell you what, how about you drink peroxide or ammonia you produce them too.

Edited December 14, 2008 by Mattshark

[UziStuNNa1]

You keep arguing the same points Matt, and, quite frankly, don't know when to stop... You are comparing DMT to a poison, which it is not. You can't judge the psychological effects on any given person because everybody's reality is different. If this is really one of the most mind-altering substances on the planet, how can you try to tell people what it will do to them? You have never experienced it, because it is an experience that words can't even describe. People consider it to be almost like a rebirth, where you see everything as new again.

[Mattshark]

You keep arguing the same points Matt, and, quite frankly, don't know when to stop... You are comparing DMT to a poison, which it is not. You can't judge the psychological effects on any given person because everybody's reality is different. If this is really one of the most mind-altering substances on the planet, how can you try to tell people what it will do to them? You have never experienced it, because it is an experience that words can't even describe. People consider it to be almost like a rebirth, where you see everything as new again.

You keep arguing it isn't a poison when it is, it is a neurotoxin. Did you see eight bits posts on how it works?

And don't give me crap about it being natural, strychnine is natural too and hey I have already pointed out 2 quite nasty toxins the human body makes naturally .

Experience is subject to conjecture, preconceptions and suggestion. How does it tell you anything?

Where did I make a reference to any psychological effects?

We can tell you biologically how it alters you mind however and that isn't subjective. Or does drug use shut off the part of your brain where it lets you understand physiological examination?

Just for you btw:DMT

Edited December 14, 2008 by Mattshark