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SoulFire

pierced kittens

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sarah snow
I have thought about piercing my dogs ear. I really don't see a problem putting something cute in the part of an animal that gets tagged for tracking, and furthermore marine biologists stick sensors on marine mamals and sharks all the time.

Sorry, no. You've said it right there in bold. You want it to look 'cute'. OK, its your pet and your choice I guess, but personally I find that unacceptable. But that's my opinion. Your dog trusts you to never inflict pain- so please don't do that to them, it's mean :(

As for the sensors, now that's a good point also. Was just watching last night a programme with mates about sharks. They tagged a shark and this thing was big enough to actually catch on the nets that as we know cover shipwrecks. I understand they want to track and understand behaviour. But this thing they shot into it will have snared the shark in nets and this is also something I don't agree with either.

Edited by sarah snow

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MsKatsipoulis

:cry: How cruel, This has saddened my heart... Who would do such a thing :cry:

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SoulFire
Well, if it's on an internet forum....

Most of europe has outlawed ear cropping.

Here's a site that presents the history and lack of a reason today to crop:

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Bluffs/...ng_Docking.html

Are we going to play the game where we both spend an hour online collecting urls of groups that are for and against ear cropping?

Here's the American Veterinary Medical Associations stand. Let me give you a hint: they are against it.

http://www.avma.org/onlnews/javma/dec08/081215c.asp

Most of europe has banned cropping, vermont and california are considering banning ear cropping, other countries that have banned docking and cropping: Other countries where docking is banned: Australia, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Scotland, Slovakia, South Africa, Sweden, Switzerland, Virgin Island, Wales.

You're never going to come up with a good reason to crop ears today... there simply isn't one for a household dog... or even a dog that works in anything but a combat sport, like dog fighting or hog or cattle catching. Just no reason.. I'm looking forward to hearing what you come up with. How many dogs are used for "detection" work where it is critical to find the source of a sound within 15 degrees? I think this is ridiculous anyway. The overwhelming majority of dogs that are cropped and docked are not working detection dogs... they are family dogs docked and cropped because the owner either likes the look or just doesn't know any better.

ummmm - that's kinda my point. you are sitting here in an internet forum, spewing your beliefs about all this stuff, but when i give a link to another forum where people are saying the opposite, you're quick to simply disreguard it, based on the fact that it's just something someone said on the internet. do you see the hypocracy (to use your own words)???

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Neognosis

I give what the AVMA says about ear cropping and tail docking more weight than what someone says on an internet forum. Britian's vet association and most of europe's vets say the same thing.

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SoulFire
And did you even read the link you sent me? IN every "pro", there's a qualifying statement. Like they say it's easier to clean, but they qualify that with the statement that it's actually not difficult to keep an uncircumcised penis clean...Decreased risk of penile cancer.. but then they say that penile cancer is very rare. Decreased risk of UTI, but then they say that UTI in the first year of life is very rare as well.

yes, i did. earlier in this thread, i said, "circumcision is a good practice to help prevent infection". here is a c/p from the link i gave you:

Decreased risk of urinary tract infections. The risk of urinary tract infections in the first year is low, but these infections may be up to 10 times as common in uncircumcised baby boys. Severe infections early in life can lead to kidney problems later on.

as far as tail docking, ear cropping and declawing - i can find as many links to verify/justify it as you can find against it. everybody has an opinion (like i said before).

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SoulFire
I give what the AVMA says about ear cropping and tail docking more weight than what someone says on an internet forum. Britian's vet association and most of europe's vets say the same thing.

i live in the US (you do to), so why should/would i give a damn about what most of europes vets say???

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Neognosis

AVMA-- AMERICAN veterinary medicine association.

As for circumcision... it can sometimes prevent an infection that is very rare to begin with....

So you cut off part of a body part to prevent a curable infection?

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SoulFire
AVMA-- AMERICAN veterinary medicine association.

As for circumcision... it can sometimes prevent an infection that is very rare to begin with....

So you cut off part of a body part to prevent a curable infection?

i think it said 10x the risk factor if the baby boy isn't circumsized. why take that kind of chance with your kid, when a very simple procedure can prevent it?

if your son was born with extra fingers or with webbed fingers, what would you do? it isn't causing any problems, medically speaking, and there is a very simple and commonly performed procedure that can correct the issue. do you have the cosmetic procedure done, or leave it as it is? just curious. . . would that be "mutilation" in your book?

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The Silver Thong
AVMA-- AMERICAN veterinary medicine association.

As for circumcision... it can sometimes prevent an infection that is very rare to begin with....

So you cut off part of a body part to prevent a curable infection?

Well I don't know if people treat animals worse or people treat people worse. I wonder how many soldiers come home missing feet,legs,arms,eye's ect. These are unnecessary and far worse than docking,cropping declawing, cercumcision combined in opinion. When humans hold humans in such low regard how can we expect people to treat animals any better. It's what is socialy acceptable and unfortunatly war death and mutilation is acceptable so really de-clawing a cat really doesn't register to high on my "Oh God thats awful" meter. Maybe once people realize this animals will be next but I won't hold my breath.

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Neognosis

I agree, thong.

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Kissmet

I pulled up the article and don't see any images on teh article.

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tigger

just an update on the article

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sarah snow

Blimey, I didn't know she actually ran a business working with animals :o Well if she loses her business then I'm afraid I have zero sympathy.

Thanks for the update :tu:

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The Silver Thong
just an update on the article

Holy crap Tiggs that looks awful, poor cat for sure. Looks like it would put it's eye out if it shook it's head. I was hoping not to really come back to this thread but well here I am darn it.

I have a question and it's directed at nobody !

I was wondering, what do people do when children don't act the way the parents or society thinks is "normal" they go ahead and decide to put said child on, lets say Ritalin. How is that worse than making a cat with out claws such an issue. People drug there children but declawing a cat to make the pet a more welcome member of the family is wrong?

Yes if a cat has no claws outside would be a nightmare for the kitty cat. However I refuse to have an outdoor cat as that is now ILLEGAL here and your cat will be caught and you will be fined, besides outdoor cats are filthy and can bring things into the home no one would want (dead animals and desease). Any indoor cat is scared to go outside as is my experience. I tried taking my cat in the backyard a couple years ago and it wanted nothing to do with it. I do believe in indoor cats as cats can ruin peoples gardens, kill local wildlife just for the thrill ect. Outdoor cats serve no purpose in a city so why is declawing a cat frowned apone so much. I'm really curious, is it simply because the animal has to experience some short term discomfort for a life of love?

Ya i know

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Mr. Mummy's Merry Maiden!
I was wondering, what do people do when children don't act the way the parents or society thinks is "normal" they go ahead and decide to put said child on, lets say Ritalin. How is that worse than making a cat with out claws such an issue.

I agree. People that stuff their kids full of drugs are just as bad as those that declaw their cats (those that are aware of the damage they're doing to the cat, in any case). It doesn't make the arguement for declawing cats anymore valid, though!

However I refuse to have an outdoor cat as that is now ILLEGAL here and your cat will be caught and you will be fined, besides outdoor cats are filthy and can bring things into the home no one would want (dead animals and desease). Any indoor cat is scared to go outside as is my experience. I tried taking my cat in the backyard a couple years ago and it wanted nothing to do with it. I do believe in indoor cats as cats can ruin peoples gardens, kill local wildlife just for the thrill ect. Outdoor cats serve no purpose in a city so why is declawing a cat frowned apone so much.

Why?! Because it's damaging to the cat's health, is why, which has already been said. You must understand also that the indoor/outdoor debate has different merits in different countries; you say it's illegal to have an outdoor cat where you live, but here in the UK 90% of cats are free-roaming. Neither are more or less loved, it's just a difference that comes from local wildlife and completely different living conditions. I have an indoor cat myself and I would never dream of declawing her, even if it was socially accepted. Why would I need to? Cats can easily be trained to use a scratching post; again, if you can't deal with your furniture getting scratched up a bit from time to time, you shouldn't have a cat! Plain and simple.

You opinion that "outdoor cats are filthy" is an interesting one. All cats that I've ever known are clean; I don't know of an animal that takes care of itself more! This is no different with cats that roam, or even wild cats. Indoor cats still have to have routine flea and worm treatments, hence they can acquire these problems just as much as any outdoor cat.

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SirRedeye

huumph, i thought i was gonna see some cute kitties hangin out on the perch, wearing trenchcoats, smoking cigarettes listening to depeche mode.

but nooooooooo-lol

poor kittens, she deserved to be charged. *unless the kittens signed some sort of waiver form claiming they were over 18 and aware of any danger of infections or side effects of the piercings like you have to do at a tattoo or body shop (i'll bet they probably didnt)

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Mr. Mummy's Merry Maiden!
...*unless the kittens signed some sort of waiver form claiming they were over 18 and aware of any danger of infections or side effects of the piercings like you have to do at a tattoo or body shop (i'll bet they probably didnt)

You don't have to sign any waiver forms to say you're of a certain age to get a piercing where I live. :huh:

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SCARLET1
You opinion that "outdoor cats are filthy" is an interesting one. All cats that I've ever known are clean; I don't know of an animal that takes care of itself more! This is no different with cats that roam, or even wild cats.

Maybe where you're from, but not in my experience. I just moved from a street that had no less than 10 "outdoor" cats, and they all were filthy. I DO know, however, that most of them were someone's pets, since I saw at least 6 of them go INSIDE a house towards night. The others were fed by a woman across the street from me, though she never let them in, so....

And before that, I lived next door to an outdoor cat who loved to leave little "presents" (read - dead animals, or hairballs...I think once he even pooped on our porch) on our lawn, in our driveway, on our back steps. He never ate any of them, just killed them and left them. Why? Because he had owners who fed him cat food, so he wasn't hungry when he got outside. And did his owners ever clean up after him? NO. In fact, they sounded quite upset when I brought that idea up. Just because my family had cats of our own. Difference was, our cats were indoor pets. The biggest thing my cats ever tried to kill were spiders (Yay, kitties! :D )

Oh, and just a side note...I happen to know that some of those outdoor cats had some nasty habits...at least one of them somehow got into my glassed-in porch, and pi**ed all over my camping tent! Man, was I mad!! LOL

That being said, I get your point about training a cat to scratch on a post. IMO, however, there's more to think about than that. I'd give reasons, but it's late!

Peace!

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NightWyvern

I am not even going to click the link....the person responsible really must be a psycho,this is such a horrible thing to do to an animal....

Just the thought of it angers and saddens me....sickens me as well

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SoulFire
You don't have to sign any waiver forms to say you're of a certain age to get a piercing where I live. :huh:

well that's really unfortunate. stupid too, IMO. . .

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Mr. Mummy's Merry Maiden!
well that's really unfortunate. stupid too, IMO. . .

Why is it stupid? Signing a piece of paper doesn't really prove or accomplish anything, except for giving someone tons of paperwork to file away. :lol: Don't you think that underage people can sign a piece of paper? :)

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SoulFire
Why is it stupid? Signing a piece of paper doesn't really prove or accomplish anything, except for giving someone tons of paperwork to file away. :lol: Don't you think that underage people can sign a piece of paper? :)

ofcourse they can, huh. . . . . you have to start somewhere though. underaged people find ways to get alcahol & cigatettes, and have abortions too. that doesn't there should be no checks/balances system in place, does it?

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