Taps lied should they be punished?

[HollyDolly]

Well i don't know if they faked anything, cause I didn't see the Fort Delware Halloween show.I know the show has changed, since it seems to me they are investigating more public places like Waverly Hills and the Stanley Hotel. The episode at the Stanley where they caught the disembodied vocie saying Hello and laughing was neat and not fake.Everyone could hear it plain as day. The paranormal isn't a trained seal and doesn't appear on command.

If they are investigating more public places, it maybe because like at the Stanley, things happen there on a regular basis,so for the producers, it's a gold mine.Wish they would do Alcatraz. I don't think Jason is faking anything.If Grant did with the jacket tug deal, then maybe it's because in his mind, he misses the old days, before all this hoopla of the tv show,maybe all the fame is getting to him, and most likely the pressure of the show.

And the producers put pressure I'm sure on the guys.

I haven't seen the episode.I don't get the SCI-Fi Channel, and my sister sends me dvds of the show. Both she and her fiance Ross work in television up in New York,so I may ask them what they think of the jacket business. I know Ross has a lot of video editing experience, and my sister is taking classes,so maybe they have some idea if it's faked or not. I know Andy was good at debunking the sheets moving on the Queen Mary.And I know they were very unhappy with the Moss Beach Distillery,since the place has been reputed to be haunted way back to the 1930s or so.All the trickery there killed any real paranormal evidence they could get.

Speaking of Grant, at Oak Alley on the second floor balconey, Jason and Grant caught a figure on the thermal.Jason sends Grant out to de bunk it, but you never see Grant appear in the same window as the figure, so I thought that was odd,as if he was hanging back someplace on the balconey out of video range,though he said he walked all around out there and found nothing. I do wish them well.

If I recall rightly, the great british investigator,Harry Price was accused of some trickery in regards to Borley Rectory.

Doubt anything Jason and Grant do is going to set paranormal research back any time soon.

Do I believe in the paranormal and life after death,yes.I don't need any paranormal researcher to tell me that. I believe because of my faith in Jesus Christ

and because, if you study the history of mankind through the centuries, ancient man also believed in an afterlife.Else, why bury the dead with tools and other objects to assist their loved ones in the afterlife.When and how human kind arrived at such an idea, I don't know, but there has always been a desire for the soul within us to reunit with Our Creator,God, whether you believe in Him or not.

[Since804]

Owe crap. Wish I would have known ahead of time. Man fans can be rapid. (I know I am a resident evil fan and hate the movies, well you get what I mean)

Maybe you mean "Rabid"??

Its "Rabies" not "Rapies"

"Man that racoon was freakin rapid!!"

[Korbus]

The paranormal isn't a trained seal and doesn't appear on command.

Unless you have your own television show, apparently.

If they are investigating more public places, it maybe because like at the Stanley, things happen there on a regular basis,so for the producers, it's a gold mine.Wish they would do Alcatraz. I don't think Jason is faking anything.If Grant did with the jacket tug deal, then maybe it's because in his mind, he misses the old days, before all this hoopla of the tv show,maybe all the fame is getting to him, and most likely the pressure of the show.

And the producers put pressure I'm sure on the guys.

So, the paranormal doesn't happen on cue, except for at the Stanley and other more public places?

Honestly, there's a good amount of double talk in this section. So, they're not faking anything, but if Grant is, it's because he misses the old days and the fame is getting to him plus the producers put pressure on them. I'm not sure I understand your argument here, unless you are just rationalizing fakery. Maybe you can clear it up? Thanks in advance.

And I know they were very unhappy with the Moss Beach Distillery,since the place has been reputed to be haunted way back to the 1930s or so.All the trickery there killed any real paranormal evidence they could get.

When I originally saw this episode, I also was angry with the Moss Beach Distillery trying to pull the wool over the eyes of TAPS. But, because I hate fakery of any kind, I soon realized (thanks to the number of knowledgeable people here, and parapsychologist Loyd Auerbach, in particular) that it is a well-established fact that Moss Beach has been turned into a kind of "paranormal fun house," and that TAPS absolutely HAD TO have known these effects were in place going in. And so should anyone with the 15+ years of experience investigating allegedly haunted locations around the United States. At the bare minimum, the producers of the show would have known. And, I'm sorry, but I tend to believe Auerbach over anything Mr. Hawes and Mr. Wilson say nowadays.

If I recall rightly, the great british investigator,Harry Price was accused of some trickery in regards to Borley Rectory.

Doubt anything Jason and Grant do is going to set paranormal research back any time soon.

You do recall correctly. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people on these forums probably don't know who Harry Price is off-hand. However, you also must understand that Harry Price, as ground-breaking as he might have been, was never as big of an influence then as Jason Hawes and Grant Wilson are nowadays. Harry Price was nowhere near as big a celebrity. Might he have faked things at Borley? Of course it's possible. But public places are not closing the doors on paranormal investigators nowadays because of Harry Price. They are closing them because of TAPS' alleged fakery. Myself, as well as other friends of mine in the paranormal research community are getting questions about TAPS, not about Harry Price. I'm sure you can see the difference. So, yes, unfortunately TAPS' perceived fakery has had an effect on the paranormal field. When a group that is likely the #1 most respected (or at least, most known) investigative team in the world is accused of fakery, that does set us all back. Credibility takes a hit.

Just my opinion.

Edited December 30, 2008 by Jason KB

[Shadowmalerenamon]

I'm still lost as to why everyone is upset

[isis-999]

I can not vote.

There is not a option for "who cares".

ROFLMOF... I was thinking the samething...

It's a show people it's going to have fake stuff added if they didn't no one would watch it....

[Korbus]

I think it's obvious that people are upset because, for whatever reason, they trusted this team, TAPS, to present the truth about paranormal investigation and research. After all, they don't present the show as "for entertainment purposes only," like a scripted sitcom or drama series, for instance. Even professional wrestling is understood to be "put on." The show Ghost Hunters, however, is presented as reality. The founding members of the group, Jason Hawes and Grant Wilson, at any time they've ever been accused of fakery, have cried foul. And now, if they did indeed take part in fakery, it is catching up to them.

As far as the note about the show having to fake evidence to keep people interested, I do agree to a point. But I find it interesting that when people believed it was 100% legit, even when they were capturing nothing, it was a hit. And now that more people are beginning to believe that they have faked evidence, they are vowing to never watch again. I know quite a few who cannot stand the show anymore. So I find that slightly ironic. Present sensationalized evidence to keep people interested - but once the viewers find out it has been sensationalized, they tune out. Fascinating.

[supervike]

They should be punished!

Take away their plumbing license! I'd be p***ed as hell if they were supposed to replace my toilet and then talked about ghosts all day long.

[000000000000000]

Never really got too interested in them. Watched a couple episodes and all they really got was evps which weren't too impressive.Plus some member of the investigative team are a little too jumpy.Like one episode in the jail where Brian I think his name was just straight up ran. You would think people who make it their job or hobby and take it as far as TAPS would be more used to seeing ghosts or something. Anyway if they lied I feel they should apologize and at least like warn that their show is for entertainment purposes. But really I don't think many people even took it seriously.

[Doggirl3]

I know they don't fake stuff ( the TAPS team) they do all they can to investingated. But I do believe in ghost b/c of the bible talking about angels and demons and other this between heaven & earth that we don't understand. So let say this. We all have opionions and that all it is. But, ( I know, there is always that word but.)if there is some time of unexplained then its a mystery. And the biggest mystery is always fun to see or education or entertaining to some, but we get to voice the way we think on all of the forum even this one about any investingations. So lets not have a war on it.

[Korbus]

They should be punished!

Take away their plumbing license! I'd be p***ed as hell if they were supposed to replace my toilet and then talked about ghosts all day long.

Haha well done!

[Korbus]

But really I don't think many people even took it seriously.

I beg to differ on that point, actually. Check out the Sci-Fi forums. Check out the forums here. Look at the stuff that's being posted to YouTube. Even Mr. Hawes and Mr. Wilson have had to make repeated statements on this on their personal blogs. People were straight up p***ed, feeling as if they'd been lied to for years. Im assuming this was because they felt they had invested time and energy into believing the televised paranormal investigation show they were watching was legit. But, that's just my opinion.

[Korbus]

I know they don't fake stuff ( the TAPS team) they do all they can to investingated. But I do believe in ghost b/c of the bible talking about angels and demons and other this between heaven & earth that we don't understand. So let say this. We all have opionions and that all it is. But, ( I know, there is always that word but.)if there is some time of unexplained then its a mystery. And the biggest mystery is always fun to see or education or entertaining to some, but we get to voice the way we think on all of the forum even this one about any investingations. So lets not have a war on it.

Don't worry, Doggirl3, I think for the most part people here have been civil in their disagreements. Opinions and ideas have been exchanged. Some people change their minds, some people agree to disagree, etc. But I haven't seen any "wars" going on myself. So, that's good news.

Now, putting your personal beliefs aside, I am curious as to how you proclaim to know for a fact they have never faked anything? I know that, of course, we are all allowed our opinions; but you seem to be speaking from a point of knowing. I'd like to understand how you are so sure.

Thank you in advance!

[isis-999]

Jason KB, do you have the link to their blog's i was looking for it but i have not been able to find it..

Thank's..

[Luis-E]

Why should they be punished?

The guy who made the video didnt really prove anything.

Btw, the person who made the video is a paranormal investigator himself.

[StarChart]

I guess pressure for something to happen means that they need to create ghosts, I did notice that last years live event (or was the the year before that?) they caught that kid saying "Hello" clearly and this year the "You're not suppose to be here" EVPs were caught clear as day even on the sound equipment. Personally I don't remember an episode were they caught an EVP as clear as those but I am sure there are one it just hasn't sprung to mind.

After that live show I guess I was taken aback a little, but I am pretty sure they didn't/don't always do trickery. The only evidence anyone is going to 100% believe is their own so you shouldn't put 100% trust into a tv show which obviously needs ratings to survive and if nothing happens in the show ratings drop.

Just be happy there is a semi-decent ghost hunting show on tv, its not exactly going to hurt the paranormal community in any way people are still going to be skeptical and people are still going to believe no matter what evidence is thrown at them.

[Shadowmalerenamon]

Why do topics about TAPS still exist? In all of them, we have clearly established that it's just a television show, so why keep talking about it?

[Doggirl3]

Don't worry, Doggirl3, I think for the most part people here have been civil in their disagreements. Opinions and ideas have been exchanged. Some people change their minds, some people agree to disagree, etc. But I haven't seen any "wars" going on myself. So, that's good news.

Now, putting your personal beliefs aside, I am curious as to how you proclaim to know for a fact they have never faked anything? I know that, of course, we are all allowed our opinions; but you seem to be speaking from a point of knowing. I'd like to understand how you are so sure.

Thank you in advance!

You know the top of the coat was pull up & then down. The only way would of been a fishing line or string right? Well Steven Valentine the host of the game show Estate of Panic was there as a guest investingator & he got to work the flir camera that detect heat or cold spots. When people touch stuff and will show the stuff the touch to be red hot. So to have a string on it to show up on flir would either be showing a cold line or hot line. And the flir shown no line on the coat that was on Jay's Coat. It was pretty smart for Steven to aim the flir on his coat b/c it was showing the same movement as the other cameras was showing. He was surround by people two cameras the flir, held by Mr. Valentine and the cameraman, that followed along and Grant. So there was no way that could be fake.

[Doggirl3]

Why do topics about TAPS still exist? In all of them, we have clearly established that it's just a television show, so why keep talking about it?

It just people trying to solve a mystery.

[Korbus]

You know the top of the coat was pull up & then down. The only way would of been a fishing line or string right? Well Steven Valentine the host of the game show Estate of Panic was there as a guest investingator & he got to work the flir camera that detect heat or cold spots. When people touch stuff and will show the stuff the touch to be red hot. So to have a string on it to show up on flir would either be showing a cold line or hot line. And the flir shown no line on the coat that was on Jay's Coat. It was pretty smart for Steven to aim the flir on his coat b/c it was showing the same movement as the other cameras was showing. He was surround by people two cameras the flir, held by Mr. Valentine and the cameraman, that followed along and Grant. So there was no way that could be fake.

No.

The string would be threaded from his right pocket area (the area which Grants hand never leaves during that entire episode) up to his jacket collar. This would explain the up and down movement, as well as why no fishing line was visible on camera. But, quite honestly, you wouldn't be likely to see a fishing line on a FLIR or a video camera in the dark anyway. The FLIR, in particular, doesn't seem to pick up the more minute details of a given area...like a fishing line, for instance.

But, in a related point, neither did the FLIR images in question show a hot spot proving that the jacket was held and tugged on. It showed, in fact, only a warmer area of the inside of Grant's hood that was closest to his neck. And that part would naturally be warmer being that it was soaking up Grant's body heat. In fact, the color (I believe it was purplish, but don't quote me) was the same as the part of his coat against his shoulder blades.

I remain unconvinced, as the evidence presented in favor of the "the ghost tugged my collar" claim is weak at best. But I do thank you for sharing with me, and the others on this forum, your opinion.

Edited January 7, 2009 by Jason KB

[Korbus]

Jason KB, do you have the link to their blog's i was looking for it but i have not been able to find it..

Thank's..

I am more than happy to help, Isis.

This is a link to Mr. Hawes' Myspace blog: http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseacti...iendID=11408348

Scroll down a ways. I believe he has two different blogs devoted to the live event.

This is a link to Mr. Wilson's Myspace blog: http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseacti...iendID=20763368

Again, you'll probably hav e to scroll down, as he too has more than one blog devoted to this.

Also, you may have to be their friends on Myspace to read their blogs. I am not sure. I happen to have them on my friends list anyway. If you need me to copy and paste the blogs to you or anything like that, feel free to send me a PM.

Thanks!

[Korbus]

Why should they be punished?

The guy who made the video didnt really prove anything.

Btw, the person who made the video is a paranormal investigator himself.

Not completely sure which video you are referring to.

But, if its any of the ones I've seen, you're absolutely right. It doesn't prove anything. But it DOES show that this "evidence" can be staged quite easily. And, TAPS themselves have regularly made the point that if a piece of evidence can be recreated, it should be thrown out. Well, they seem to, at the least, not be living up to their word.

And what exactly does a person being a paranormal investigator have to do with anything? I didn't understand what you were trying to say.

[Korbus]

I guess pressure for something to happen means that they need to create ghosts, I did notice that last years live event (or was the the year before that?) they caught that kid saying "Hello" clearly and this year the "You're not suppose to be here" EVPs were caught clear as day even on the sound equipment. Personally I don't remember an episode were they caught an EVP as clear as those but I am sure there are one it just hasn't sprung to mind.

After that live show I guess I was taken aback a little, but I am pretty sure they didn't/don't always do trickery. The only evidence anyone is going to 100% believe is their own so you shouldn't put 100% trust into a tv show which obviously needs ratings to survive and if nothing happens in the show ratings drop.

Just be happy there is a semi-decent ghost hunting show on tv, its not exactly going to hurt the paranormal community in any way people are still going to be skeptical and people are still going to believe no matter what evidence is thrown at them.

Hi StarChart, thank you for posting your opinion on this matter.

I'll say this in their defense. I don't believe they ever actually said that the Stanley Hotel live event produced a little kid saying hello. I do remember that part in question, though. But I could be wrong. I remember them saying it sounded like a small child. But to me, it could have been a cat somewhere crying. They never established what that was or wasn't as far as I can remember. But again, I could be wrong on that.

Secondly, the "you're not supposed to be here" voice is not an EVP. An EVP is when the voice isn't heard at the time of a recording. But I do understand your point. This was more along the lines of what would be called a disembodied voice. That is, a voice that is heard but seems to have no source. Now, my belief is that it was faked. I also believe a subsequently aired disembodied voice saying "I like the one in the hat" on a recent epiosde was also faked. Can I prove that? Of course not. But these are the exact moments when TAPS lost all their credibility with a vast number of their fans. Because they, too, believe it was faked.

I will also be the first to say that I don't believe everything they have ever presented as evidence has been faked. I actually believe that they have captured and revealed some nice evidence in their years on television. But I also believe that the stuff they have faked tarnishes not only their credibility, but a good portion of the paranormal community's. Why? Because TAPS was likely the #1 most respected team in the world. If not respected, at least the most known. As unfortunate as it might be, TAPS, PRS, and any other "ghost hunting" type show on television are our community's representatives. And in the wake of what is believed to be TAPS fraud, it has caused more than several public locations to close their doors on paranormal investigators now. That means that neither my group, Phase 3 Paranormal, nor other groups around the country can investigate those locations any longer. And that is a shame. Credibility is the most important thing we have in this field. And when the most known and/or respected group around defrauds people, yes, it hurts our credibility with future and past clients in some amount.

Another thing my own group has received within in the past couple months is questions from potential clients and interested parties about the TAPS situation. They want to know how we see it, how we respond to it, how it has effected us, how they can be sure we aren't faking anything, etc. And yes, that also hurts us. I shouldn't have to respond to crap about TAPS from potential clients or other people interested in paranormal investigation. But I do because, again, TAPS is a representative of our field, whether I like it or not. And not only is it just my group that gets these kind of questions, but members of other groups whom I know and have professional relationships with.

But this is why I post on these forums as well. Not just to get my own thoughts and ideas on a blank screen, but also so I'm on the record. Never do I want people to think what has gone on with TAPS and other groups on television who seem to be playing a little fast and loose with evidence doesn't bother me. It does. And this is my way of speaking out against that type of thing. That, and personally asking the TAPS crew to take a lie detector test. But, that they have yet to respond to. Well, maybe someday.

Thanks for reading.

[Doggirl3]

Ok lets end this this conversation this way Opionions-sionions. Meaning the same as the saying-said. As for any investingator in the ghost hunting field. That goes for your Phase 3 group to Jason Kb. Doing what you all do. You rock. Enough said.

[Korbus]

As for any investingator in the ghost hunting field. That goes for your Phase 3 group to Jason Kb. Doing what you all do. You rock. Enough said.

Thank you, friend. You are awesome!

[Mattshark]

Television shows and documentaries lie all the time. It is hardly a revelation. It is TV entertainment, not a scientific experiment.