Taps lied should they be punished?

[Space Commander Travis]

I beg to differ on that point, actually. Check out the Sci-Fi forums. Check out the forums here. Look at the stuff that's being posted to YouTube. Even Mr. Hawes and Mr. Wilson have had to make repeated statements on this on their personal blogs. People were straight up p***ed, feeling as if they'd been lied to for years. ....

Isn't there an irony there, considering what the 'fi' part of 'Sci-Fi' stands for?

[Doggirl3]

All & all its still a show that show or suppose show what investingation of the science field of ghosthunting is like. And also what people would or can or is saying about one investingation or another. You got to admit that it does make you investingated it too. As prove of the talk about TAPS. <Shrug> It like we all are in a way without knowing it is playing clues. Did he or didn't he do this or that? That stuff like that. So in a way we all are trying to figuire out if it real or not too. Reread what you all said and see if you didn't see it that way too. If they did fake one thing isn't that what they did made us all wondered about that,too?

[Plainbob13]

The only thing I'll admint is this. They are the luckiest plumbers around. They capture "evidence" everytime. And that is what makes the show smell fishy. No one is that lucky. Jesus they need to be in Vegas.

[Stormcrow]

They capture "evidence" everytime.

They really, really don't. The first two seasons, I would wager there is about six episodes between them where they don't find anything. I would say double that where they find one or two minor things. That's not including the live investigation at Waverly where they found zip. They honestly do not find something every single time. Consider the locations they visit, and ratings. Are you going to air a location that did have something, or one that didn't? Which one will bring more people? If you had own your own paranormal investigation show, what would you do? Would you continuously air episodes where you always found something, found nothing, or got a little bit of both?

[Manszilla]

The only thing I'll admint is this. They are the luckiest plumbers around. They capture "evidence" everytime. And that is what makes the show smell fishy. No one is that lucky. Jesus they need to be in Vegas.

Precisely, the sheer revelation of these mountains of evidence, why aint GHs absolutely ecstatic and out of their minds? Whooping and hollaring and dancing after each episode. Why aint their evidence presented before the sceptical and scientific studies? And why aint there investigative follow-ups ever conducted by a scrupulous panel of experts to prove or disprove the evidence. Hmm. Oh yeah, this is entertainment television d'oh.

[Radian]

The only thing I'll admint is this. They are the luckiest plumbers around. They capture "evidence" everytime. And that is what makes the show smell fishy. No one is that lucky. Jesus they need to be in Vegas.

heey bob

HAHA, you're right about that.

[Korbus]

From what I've been reading, it honestly sounds like some people are getting to that point. People are so consumed by the fact TAPS MIGHT have faked something, they don't look at the little things they do get involved with.

Well, I can't speak for anyone else. But I appreciate them for all the charitable work they involve themselves in. I think it's great.

Criticized for what actions? Following their contract and acting like they're required to?

Ebony, all I'm saying is that the day a paranormal group signs the dotted line agreeing to fake evidence is the day they lose all their credibility. That is my opinion, of course, that they have faked evidence. I can't prove it. I just point to the mountain of circumstantial evidence. But we can agree to disagree there. I am not trying to change anyone's mind. I'm merely stating that I'm sick and tired of hearing the "contract excuse." Signing a contract doesn't make you any less liable for your actions. TAPS is the only group people seem to defend no matter what.

Again, I ask if people are really just sticking up for groups that get accused of fakery without the smoking gun evidence to back it up...where are the people defending PRS? Ghost Adventures? Heck, Most Haunted? In my opinion, it is TAPS and TAPS only that get treated with kid gloves.

[The P.I.T. Crew]

TAPS has absolutely NO control over the editing of content on the Ghost Hunters program. Think of it like giving an interview to a reporter... ...your words can be twisted and taken ridiculously out of context. The editors of the show have hour upon hour of footage to cut and place in any order they wish. They have the ability to make things seem different than what they really are and again, TAPS has no control over that.

I am neither defending nor discrediting the TAPS family here. I'm simply pointing out that their credibility cannot be judged by this program.

I actually have seen episodes where they did find absolutely nothing, even episodes where the client had staged activity and TAPS busted them on it. Ghost Hunters is a TV show, edited to be entertaining. No need to look into it much past that. If the program actually followed their investigations minute by minute as they happened in real time, well, that would be extremely boring. I know this as my group has recently started documenting our investigations and it is rather tedious taking hours upon hours of footage and making it viewable. We made our first documented investigation and hour long and about 99% of the folks that watched it said it was boring and we needed to just cut to the chase. Sad but true. So we decided to just release "clips" rather than boring documentaries.

On the "live" aspect of Ghost Hunters? Hell, who's to say it was completely live? Again we are talking about a TV show and not TAPS.

[Wookietim]

Okay this thread was really good but and was almost done and my power went out. But now the videos are back and I can watch them which makes me wonder if my computer was hacked.

Okay here is the jist they faked their 2008 live investigation. By doing this they have discredited our whole community. This should not go unpunished. So you be Judge and Jury on this one.

Here is some links

Youtube clip

Here is a petition to get them to tell the truth.

Have you listened to the podcast where they discuss it? They have a very good point....

Bottomline - it's a TV show. I don't think anyone takes it seriously and if you are watching it for proof of ghosts, then you are looking in the wrong place. After all, if they ever find anything you would find out by other avenues pretty quickly. Really, the reason the watch it is simply to be entertained for an hour.

Do they stage scenes? I'm sure that from time to tie they do. Do they stage everything? Probably not - as evidence, I submit the "Unscripted" scenes where grant and jason are driving and discussing the case. First off - ask yourself how those scenes are filmed. There aren't many ways to film them as they actually drive, so that is staged. But at the same time - they display that they aren't the worlds best actors, so it would be exceedingly obvious if they faked everything...

[Korbus]

I'm simply pointing out that their credibility cannot be judged by this program.

Yes. It can.

Since you gave some hypotheticals, I'll give one, too. Say that on a recent live Halloween special, TAPS passed off a disembodied voice as evidence. A diembodied voice that the vast majority of people watching felt was not legitimate. Let's say they also showed a jacket collar getting tugged - something that has easily been recreated by others. And this team, TAPS, has always said if something can be recreated it has to be tossed out, chose to not toss this evidence out. They've also been very lackadaisical in allowing other miniscule evidence to be confirmed. Say this same team is now including in the reveals to clients personal experiences as evidence. Say this team is also passing off marginal EVPs as proof of a haunting. Say this team is now using the K-II meter for spirit interaction, even though this has never proven legitimate at all under independent experimentation. Say this team seems to catch evidence at darn near every single location they investigate the first time. Say this team investigated Moss Beach Distillery and tried to pretend they had no idea that place has been turned into a paranormal funhouse even though tons of other investigators, such as Loyd Auerbach for instance, seemed to know it very well. Say that...oh, forget it...

Ok, well I guess they're not all that hypothetical...but I hope you see my point.

[Wookietim]

Yes. It can.

Since you gave some hypotheticals, I'll give one, too. Say that on a recent live Halloween special, TAPS passed off a disembodied voice as evidence. A diembodied voice that the vast majority of people watching felt was not legitimate. Let's say they also showed a jacket collar getting tugged - something that has easily been recreated by others. And this team, TAPS, has always said if something can be recreated it has to be tossed out, chose to not toss this evidence out. They've also been very lackadaisical in allowing other miniscule evidence to be confirmed. Say this same team is now including in the reveals to clients personal experiences as evidence. Say this team is also passing off marginal EVPs as proof of a haunting. Say this team is now using the K-II meter for spirit interaction, even though this has never proven legitimate at all under independent experimentation. Say this team seems to catch evidence at darn near every single location they investigate the first time. Say this team investigated Moss Beach Distillery and tried to pretend they had no idea that place has been turned into a paranormal funhouse even though tons of other investigators, such as Loyd Auerbach for instance, seemed to know it very well. Say that...oh, forget it...

Ok, well I guess they're not all that hypothetical...but I hope you see my point.

So, one single episode destroys all credibility? Tell me, what if we apply that to other paranormal areas? There have been faked UFO's in the past - using your opinion, all UFO's are fake. There have been faked ghosts before - so now they are all fakes. Bigfoot was the subject of a hoax recently - therefore Bigfoot and all the sightings are fakes now...

[The Paranormal Skeptic]

So, one single episode destroys all credibility? Tell me, what if we apply that to other paranormal areas? There have been faked UFO's in the past - using your opinion, all UFO's are fake. There have been faked ghosts before - so now they are all fakes. Bigfoot was the subject of a hoax recently - therefore Bigfoot and all the sightings are fakes now...

read the post he said TAPS credibility has been destroyed not the paranormal field.

[Plainbob13]

TAPS has absolutely NO control over the editing of content on the Ghost Hunters program. Think of it like giving an interview to a reporter... ...your words can be twisted and taken ridiculously out of context. The editors of the show have hour upon hour of footage to cut and place in any order they wish. They have the ability to make things seem different than what they really are and again, TAPS has no control over that.

I am neither defending nor discrediting the TAPS family here. I'm simply pointing out that their credibility cannot be judged by this program.

I actually have seen episodes where they did find absolutely nothing, even episodes where the client had staged activity and TAPS busted them on it. Ghost Hunters is a TV show, edited to be entertaining. No need to look into it much past that. If the program actually followed their investigations minute by minute as they happened in real time, well, that would be extremely boring. I know this as my group has recently started documenting our investigations and it is rather tedious taking hours upon hours of footage and making it viewable. We made our first documented investigation and hour long and about 99% of the folks that watched it said it was boring and we needed to just cut to the chase. Sad but true. So we decided to just release "clips" rather than boring documentaries.

On the "live" aspect of Ghost Hunters? Hell, who's to say it was completely live? Again we are talking about a TV show and not TAPS.

You talking about the WELL KNOWN restaurant thats all over the web and TV that had staged effects? OH a great example of TAPS work there. Amazing how a little research would have been for them if they had only looked.

[Korbus]

So, one single episode destroys all credibility? Tell me, what if we apply that to other paranormal areas? There have been faked UFO's in the past - using your opinion, all UFO's are fake. There have been faked ghosts before - so now they are all fakes. Bigfoot was the subject of a hoax recently - therefore Bigfoot and all the sightings are fakes now...

What the HELL are you talking about? Did you even read what I wrote?

My argument is that TAPS' credibility can and has been tarnished by their actions in their show. Not just in ONE episode, but MANY. Notice that I mentioned not only the recent live special, but the Moss Beach episode, any episode where they used the K-II, the increasing number of episodes that their EVPs seemed marginal at best, any episode they've been lackadaisical in allowing bad evidence through to the reveal (Crescent Hotel "soldier" comes to mind).

I hope now you see what I was talking about. TAPS reputation has been tarnished, and those are just some of the reasons why. As for your mentions of UFO, Ghost, and Bigfoot hoaxes - well, I just didn't understand your logic as it pertained to my post, so I'm just going to leave that alone, I guess.

Thank you for your response.

[The P.I.T. Crew]

Yes. It can.

Since you gave some hypotheticals, I'll give one, too. Say that on a recent live Halloween special, TAPS passed off a disembodied voice as evidence. A diembodied voice that the vast majority of people watching felt was not legitimate. Let's say they also showed a jacket collar getting tugged - something that has easily been recreated by others. And this team, TAPS, has always said if something can be recreated it has to be tossed out, chose to not toss this evidence out. They've also been very lackadaisical in allowing other miniscule evidence to be confirmed. Say this same team is now including in the reveals to clients personal experiences as evidence. Say this team is also passing off marginal EVPs as proof of a haunting. Say this team is now using the K-II meter for spirit interaction, even though this has never proven legitimate at all under independent experimentation. Say this team seems to catch evidence at darn near every single location they investigate the first time. Say this team investigated Moss Beach Distillery and tried to pretend they had no idea that place has been turned into a paranormal funhouse even though tons of other investigators, such as Loyd Auerbach for instance, seemed to know it very well. Say that...oh, forget it...

Ok, well I guess they're not all that hypothetical...but I hope you see my point.

I see your points, but you apparently missed mine. No offense or disrespect meant here. You are passing judgment based on a TV show.

I respectfully disagree with your ideaology. Are they to blame for locking themselves into a non budging contract with Ghost Hunters? Absolutely. But, they cannot be held accountable for what the network says HAS TO BE AIRED. It's just that simple. Again, we are talking about an television program created for entertainment purposes. TAPS uses that outlet to promote what they do and nothing more.

I will agree that they probably should have never signed a contract like this with Ghost Hunters. Its risky and does cause doubt such as many in this thread. But they did. The show just cannot be held as the primary source of reputation for TAPS.

You are free to believe as you wish, as are all of us. But in no way shape or form will a TV show influence my decision on how I feel about a certain organization. It's, well, TV.

Again, no offense. Just making conversation.

[Korbus]

I see your points, but you apparently missed mine. No offense or disrespect meant here. You are passing judgment based on a TV show.

I respectfully disagree with your ideaology. Are they to blame for locking themselves into a non budging contract with Ghost Hunters? Absolutely. But, they cannot be held accountable for what the network says HAS TO BE AIRED. It's just that simple. Again, we are talking about an television program created for entertainment purposes. TAPS uses that outlet to promote what they do and nothing more.

I will agree that they probably should have never signed a contract like this with Ghost Hunters. Its risky and does cause doubt such as many in this thread. But they did. The show just cannot be held as the primary source of reputation for TAPS.

You are free to believe as you wish, as are all of us. But in no way shape or form will a TV show influence my decision on how I feel about a certain organization. It's, well, TV.

Again, no offense. Just making conversation.

No offense taken. I wasn't actually responding to your post in its entirety - just the one line.

But I believe I do understand your argument. I just don't agree with it. Yes, it's television, and yes certain things are portrayed in such a way that is not conducive to showcasing realism in paranormal investigation. This I understand. But I can't yet grasp the concept of separating TAPS from the TV show. People have told me to do this before. But when TAPS themselves goes around saying the show's editing sometimes angers them, but it is still an accurate representation of what goes on - that I just don't get.

Seriously, I really am trying to understand it. Maybe you can help?

[The P.I.T. Crew]

But when TAPS themselves goes around saying the show's editing sometimes angers them, but it is still an accurate representation of what goes on - that I just don't get.

Seriously, I really am trying to understand it. Maybe you can help?

I can't state anything as fact, but I know contracts, believe me. Even if they are/were disgruntled with GH about how they are portraying the TAPS family, there is nothing they could do about it legally, depending on their contract. Even if they "blackmailed" with a negative exposure speech, they could and would be counter sued for breach of contract and defamation of character.

I think in the end, TAPS benefits a great deal from the GH exposure and for the most part... ...the edits, cuts, etc., that they might not necessarily approve of, still bring exposure to a field they are so passionate about. It's publicity and I guess worth the trade.

Again, I can't stress enough that I am neither defending nor criticizing the TAPS organization. My stand is on the belief that a TV show cannot be the final thought in judging ones' character.

TAPS made a business move for exposure. That exposure being GH. Sure there is a price to pay, but like I stated above, for what they are gaining out of it, this is most likely worth it.

I would certainly feel different if the show was produced by them and actually called T.A.P.S. Then, I too would share in your questionable stance.

Nice to meet you by the way.

Stephen

[Korbus]

Nice to meet you as well, Stephen.

And you're right, as I am by no means questioning their character as human beings by what I've seen on the show. I've never met them personally, but those who have tell me they are friendly, affable fellas. I'm sure I'd get along famously with them should I meet them somewhere.

As far as contracts go, I know many people assume they are under contract to fake evidence. If that is the case, then I hold no sympathy for them when they get criticized. Still, an interesting discussion, nonetheless.

Since you say you know contracts well, let me ask you this. What prevents TAPS from simply saying, "We will not fake evidence. Screw you, Sci Fi." ?? I understand they would be sued for breach of contract and I'm sure TAPS would lose. In fact, they shouldn't even contest it. But would Sci Fi want to go through with a lawsuit knowing that this contract (that basically asked them to fake evidence) would be front and center? Wouldn't they be just asking for bad publicity? I've been called an idealist at times, and hey, it's probably true. Maybe I watched too many Frank Capra movies, haha...but I would just say "screw you!" go to trial, vindicate myself by at least saying, "hey, my group doesnt fake evidence. not even for tv or a paycheck." Then, I get to be an instant icon with all the people who respect integrity, haha.

But, ya know, this is all in my dreams, of course.

[Doggirl3]

And I thought it was educational show showing the workings of ghosthunting. Anyway, Jason, go with that part anyway on the show. That they show a small part of what you all do in the ghosthunting business. And it not all ghosthunting. It all parnormal studies, right? Fake or not.

[isis-999]

QUOTE (Plainbob13 @ Jan 17 2009, 12:02 PM)

The only thing I'll admint is this. They are the luckiest plumbers around. They capture "evidence" everytime. And that is what makes the show smell fishy. No one is that lucky. Jesus they need to be in Vegas.

I have watched the show for years and many time's they have walked away with nothing so thats not really true, But i have noticed the last year they are getting more stuff on tape and i wonder if thats because of the type of place's they are going to now or if they are getting some outside help.....

[Korbus]

I think I understand your point. I just can't overlook the "fake" aspects of it, I guess.

By the way, where are all the people I was hoping would be defending PRS, Ghost Adventures, Most Haunted, etc? Aren't they also just showing the aspects of ghost hunting and paranormal studies while bound to a contract? Again, I'd like to make the observation I see TAPS being defended with these arguments, but not those groups/shows.

This is not meant for any person in particular, at all, just so it is clear. It is just a general observation.

[isis-999]

Well to be honest if you watch the other ghost show's then you know there is a certain amount of fake in all of them, I guess i like Ghost Hunter's the best cause it does have some sense of being real and i think for the most part alot of it is, But the truth is we wont ever know unless someone from the show come's out and tell's us what is real and what part's are fake..

[The P.I.T. Crew]

Since you say you know contracts well, let me ask you this. What prevents TAPS from simply saying, "We will not fake evidence. Screw you, Sci Fi." ??

But, ya know, this is all in my dreams, of course.

I can't even being to answer that question. There are too many "what ifs?" I mean we don't know if the contract originally stated something like that. "The Ghost Hunters program may skew evidence caught on TAPS equipment to serve as a better entertainment platform." If the contract stated something like that from the start, TAPS wouldn't have a foot to stand on against Sci-Fi, because they agreed to it. Now if the contract stating nothing of the like... ...sure, they could come back at GH if they wanted to I suppose.

But again, for the publicity and public knowledge of the TAPS family, I think a little skewing here and there to keep the program up and running can only bring good to the company overall. If GH closed its doors, the TAPS family would slowly disappear out of the public eye and ultimately would start the decline of something both TAPS, you, me and other paranormal investigators are working so hard to achieve.

Heck, I do it. Watch some of our investigation clips on Youtube. We don't "fake" anything, but I do add music and juggle things around to be more appealing to the eye. I mean who wants to watch 45 minutes of me sitting in a room listening for stuff? Nobody. So I cut it up, get to the goods, add music for effect and go from there. I'm by no means Spielberg, but it gets the point across. I wish my team, The P.I.T. Crew to gain more exposure, more investigations, etc., etc. Having a boring public personality certainly isn't the way to do it. Of course my comparison is a bit far from what we are talking about here with TAPS.

I can only speak for myself but if a network approached me, and from the beginning said they were going to be faking things, I would have to turn them down. But if they approached me stating that here and there they may "skew" a few things to appear a little more intriguing than what it actually is, well, I might do it. But again, that's for a show, and not for our records in my filing cabinet, ya know?

[aquatus1]

It doesn't even need to be in the contract. The harsh fact of life is that in the entertainment industry, you either get the viewers or you get canceled. No one would watch a show with a real investigation going on, because real investigations are dull, boring, and ultimately, never come up with any sort of solid evidence. No viewers means the networks would drop the show. The way around that is to do what the networks call "dramatization".

No one in the entertainment industry even pretends that they are in the business of presenting truth. If anyone out there in TVland assumes that is the case, the fault is theirs, not the media.

[Korbus]

Well to be honest if you watch the other ghost show's then you know there is a certain amount of fake in all of them, I guess i like Ghost Hunter's the best cause it does have some sense of being real and i think for the most part alot of it is

But, see, I guess that is my point. People are saying stuff like, "Well, I think TAPS is legit, but even if they're faking stuff it's because of their contract, so I don't blame them at all. They're still real." But I'm saying that they won't give the same benefit of the doubt to groups like PRS, Ghost Adventures, Most Haunted, etc.

I mean, look, I'll be the first to say I watch most of these shows. Doesn't mean I like them, but I am interested enough by them to sit down and pay some sort of attention. Out of all of them, GH is my favorite. But I've just been disappointed with the decreased scientific aspects in place of what I feel is the falsification of evidence. Because I feel they were the best group, but the last few seasons have gotten progressively more sensationalized.

Anyway, just my opinion. Thanks everyone!