120 reportedly killed in Israeli strikes on

[Ufo Believer]

What I mean by that is that I feel that people have a right to carry weapons for their own protection, but when a group of people being to terrorize other people they should have their weapons taken away...that is if anyone can get the weapons. No, I don't own any weapons. I'm 19 years old.

Edited December 31, 2008 by Ufo Believer

[ninjadude]

What I mean by that is that I feel that people have a right to carry weapons for their own protection, but when a group of people being to terrorize other people they should have their weapons taken away...that is if anyone can get the weapons. No, I don't own any weapons. I'm 19 years old.

good luck with that.

[MasterPo]

The UN Paritian Plan of 1948 was not recognized by the surrounding Arab countries.

The plan was not recognized by the surrounding arab countries.

The plan was not recognized by the surrounding arab countries.

The plan was not recognized by the surrounding arab countries.

The plan was not recognized by the surrounding arab countries.

The plan was not recognized by the surrounding arab countries.

So what does that have to do with those countries attacking Israel in 1948?

And more over, how does that releave them of the responsibility for having told their fellow arabs to leave? And what of their fellow arabs who listened to them?!

[MasterPo]

If there are "homeless" or displaced arabs that can trace their plight all the way back to 1948, then where have their fellow arab brothers been the past 60 years?!

Jews have always taken care of Jews. So have Christians for Christians and most other faiths and nationalities.

But not the arabs.

They have purposely used the plight of their own brothers and sisters for political gains! (and not very successful either too).

The arab nations of the middle east are among the richest in the world, having grown fat on oil money.

So why haven't they taken in and helped their fellow displaced arab breathern?

Why haven't they built decent housing for them?

Why haven't they built schools and hired teachers for their kids?

Why haven't they built hospitals and hired doctors for their health care?

Why haven't they trained/retrained them to work in other jobs? Or even hired them for state-run industry?

Why haven't they given them citizenship in their own countries?

It is a disgrace how the arab world has used these people for 60 years!!

[the-Unexpected-Soul]

i wanted to hear the view point of the other side and this is what i found (i didn't explore the site yet just peeked upon it)

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

the Jews them self believe that Israel is an illegal state , which is why i'm happy to know that there is fair jaws to love , which is part of our religion ,

we have no problem with the jews , we have problem with Israel

here is a quick jump

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/protests/nyc12feb02.cfm

Edited December 31, 2008 by maa2007

[doesnt_matter]

Divide and conquer. The obvious long term goal of the Israel strategy is to weaken the Palestinians to the point that eventually they will dissolve. I find it strange that no one has pointed out this obvious long term strategy. Break them up, contain them, interfere directly with authority rendering them inept, and take a little more land, year by year. I do not agree with this method of peace.

Edited December 31, 2008 by doesnt_matter

[Lord Umbarger]

The only ones that are getting it hard, is the civilians on both sides, but Palestinians by far, worst.

But still they continue to do the exact same thing that has always brought the wrath of Israel down on them. Is learning from one s own mistakes like a sin in their sect of Islam or something? one kick to the crotch by a horse and I stopped pulling on his tail! See? I can be educated!

I think the reason is because the terrorist have weapons. The people of Palestine didn't know what they were getting into when they voted Hamas in. They didn't see this escolation coming.

I could possbly see that as being a little on the true side. I do have a hard time believing that ALL Palistinians want war with teh Israelis. On the other hand, they had to have known what this party was all about before they voted for them. I mean, they do put up posters and hand out flyers and stuff, right?

You're probably one that supports the supposed right to carry in the US as well..

Although I fail to see how this ties into the discussion at hand, I am a CCW card carrying pistol carrying American myself. 34 years old and all so, there. Perfectly legal! Here where I live, the averge thug has to wonder before he mugs someone, "Is this sob gonna shoot me?". From what I understand, they don't have that concern in New York. The unemployment rate there isn't all that much lower then here but, some how we don't have any where near as many muggings in Sowega. Go figure!

They have purposely used the plight of their own brothers and sisters for political gains! (and not very successful either too).

The arab nations of the middle east are among the richest in the world, having grown fat on oil money.

So why haven't they taken in and helped their fellow displaced arab breathern?

Why haven't they built decent housing for them?

Why haven't they built schools and hired teachers for their kids?

Why haven't they built hospitals and hired doctors for their health care?

Why haven't they trained/retrained them to work in other jobs? Or even hired them for state-run industry?

Why haven't they given them citizenship in their own countries?

It is a disgrace how the arab world has used these people for 60 years!!

Don't waste your time. I have tried to point this simple little fact out a number of times myself but, usually I just get told that I am an American so I don't know anything. Well, that might be true, I might NOT know anything but, I am still right and so is this fact about the arab world.

Divide and conquer. The obvious long term goal of the Israel strategy is to weaken the Palestinians to the point that eventually they will dissolve. I find it strange that no one has pointed out this obvious long term strategy. Break them up, contain them, interfere directly with authority rendering them inept, and take a little more land, year by year. I do not agree with this method of peace.

So, what you are saying is that it is Israels fault that the Palistinisans are shooting rockets at them out fo the blue and launching terror attacks on discoteques? You know, the Jews lived in peace in the majhor cities fo the regeon under arab rule. Why can't the arabs try living in peace under Israeli rule for a while? They might even like it! After all, it was a waste land that no one wanted until the Jews moved in the the dessert started to bloom.

Maybe the arabs just don't like farms and flowers. It's the only reason that I can see for them not trying to get along at this point.

[Iblis]

If there are "homeless" or displaced arabs that can trace their plight all the way back to 1948, then where have their fellow arab brothers been the past 60 years?!

Jews have always taken care of Jews. So have Christians for Christians and most other faiths and nationalities.

But not the arabs.

They have purposely used the plight of their own brothers and sisters for political gains! (and not very successful either too).

The arab nations of the middle east are among the richest in the world, having grown fat on oil money.

So why haven't they taken in and helped their fellow displaced arab breathern?

It is a disgrace how the arab world has used these people for 60 years!!

Aw come on, thats not true.

I dont know how much the rich arabs in the middleeast are helping Palestine, because im not so much into the conflict. But i have witnessed Arab generosity first handed.

And you say Christians taking care of Christians? Thats not true either. I've seen christians in war with other christians, and brutal stuff was done on both sides.

But yes, i agree that in this particular case, the other Arab countries are more concerned about Israelis not existing than Palestinians existing.

[Iblis]

But still they continue to do the exact same thing that has always brought the wrath of Israel down on them. Is learning from one s own mistakes like a sin in their sect of Islam or something? one kick to the crotch by a horse and I stopped pulling on his tail! See? I can be educated!

I could possbly see that as being a little on the true side. I do have a hard time believing that ALL Palistinians want war with teh Israelis. On the other hand, they had to have known what this party was all about before they voted for them. I mean, they do put up posters and hand out flyers and stuff, right?

Well, because some nutcase shoots a bomb over Israel, does that mean that average Joe(Ahmed) who is sitting in his home in Gaza with his family, who has done nothing wrong should get a bomb smack in the face?

I doubt that even 50 % of the Palestinians want a war with Israel because they know how the last few wars have ended.

[Moon Monkey]

If there are "homeless" or displaced arabs that can trace their plight all the way back to 1948, then where have their fellow arab brothers been the past 60 years?!

Jews have always taken care of Jews. So have Christians for Christians and most other faiths and nationalities.

But not the arabs.

They have purposely used the plight of their own brothers and sisters for political gains! (and not very successful either too).

The arab nations of the middle east are among the richest in the world, having grown fat on oil money.

So why haven't they taken in and helped their fellow displaced arab breathern?

Why haven't they built decent housing for them?

Why haven't they built schools and hired teachers for their kids?

Why haven't they built hospitals and hired doctors for their health care?

Why haven't they trained/retrained them to work in other jobs? Or even hired them for state-run industry?

Why haven't they given them citizenship in their own countries?

It is a disgrace how the arab world has used these people for 60 years!!

They have built decent housing, schools, universities etc. Before Hamas 1/2 a million worked in israel. Don't believe the 'refugee camp' hype Gaza and the West Bank are better than all the non-oil rich arab countries I have been to and almost all of Africa and Asia. Want to see refugee camps go to the Sudan or the Congo....its a different world but doesn't get a 100th of a look in.

i wanted to hear the view point of the other side and this is what i found (i didn't explore the site yet just peeked upon it)

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

the Jews them self believe that Israel is an illegal state , which is why i'm happy to know that there is fair jaws to love , which is part of our religion ,

we have no problem with the jews , we have problem with Israel

here is a quick jump

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/protests/nyc12feb02.cfm

Most of the jews who don't support Israel don't because the messiah hasn't come yet so the prophecy hasn't been fullfilled....fundamentalist nutters. Its like you are picking a right load of crap to 'read up on the subject'. Do yourself a favour or you will become another blinkered fool.

[Moon Monkey]

Well, because some nutcase shoots a bomb over Israel, does that mean that average Joe(Ahmed) who is sitting in his home in Gaza with his family, who has done nothing wrong should get a bomb smack in the face?

I doubt that even 50 % of the Palestinians want a war with Israel because they know how the last few wars have ended.

And because a couple of nutters stick a caravan on a hillside and call it a settlement means hundreds of thousand of innocent civillians have to make sure they stay 10 secs from a bomb shelter for 8 years ?

90% of Israelis don't want war with the Palestinians because those wars never end. End of the day average Ahmed voted Hamas in i.e. voted in the rocket firers, average Yossi voted in parties that removed all setllements from Gaza and remove the caravan nutters on a daily basis.

[Corp]

You know has bad as it sounds the death count seems lower than it could have been. Think the total civilian dead is about 60 right now and while it's still horrible that they've been killed it doesn't seem that bad given the common use of human shields and the pounding that everyone is saying that Gaza is getting. Seems like Israel is doing an ok job at targeting Hamas, much better than they did during their fight in Lebenon.

[questionmark]

Most of the jews who don't support Israel don't because the messiah hasn't come yet so the prophecy hasn't been fullfilled....fundamentalist nutters. Its like you are picking a right load of crap to 'read up on the subject'. Do yourself a favour or you will become another blinkered fool.

but there is a small minority who says that two wrongs don't make a right.

[AlexG]

Aw come on, thats not true.

It's certainly true. The Palestinian refugees were ejected from Jordan and Syria, and in Lebanon they're confined to the camps along the border. The Arab states provide little to no monetary support for the Palestinians. Egypt keeps Gaza sealed off on their side.

[odas]

And because a couple of nutters stick a caravan on a hillside and call it a settlement means hundreds of thousand of innocent civillians have to make sure they stay 10 secs from a bomb shelter for 8 years ?

90% of Israelis don't want war with the Palestinians because those wars never end. End of the day average Ahmed voted Hamas in i.e. voted in the rocket firers, average Yossi voted in parties that removed all setllements from Gaza and remove the caravan nutters on a daily basis.

The avarage Joe or Ahmed did not vote for any war but for a glimps of a better future.

According to this the avarage american Joe voted for the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, for the economic crisis etc.

Not true, your statement.

[Corp]

How is a vote for Hamas a vote for a better future? Their main goal is to destroy Israel. A big war that lasts for years isn't my idea of a better future.

[questionmark]

How is a vote for Hamas a vote for a better future? Their main goal is to destroy Israel. A big war that lasts for years isn't my idea of a better future.

If you are hungry and someone feeds you while the other ignores you, who do you vote for? Right...and that is how Hamas got to run the Gaza strip.

[Splodgenessabounds]

How is a vote for Hamas a vote for a better future? Their main goal is to destroy Israel. A big war that lasts for years isn't my idea of a better future.

When they were running for election they left that insignificant little detail out of their campaign manifesto.

"Hamas has dropped its call for the destruction of Israel from its manifesto for the Palestinian parliamentary election in a fortnight, a move that brings the group closer to the mainstream Palestinian position of building a state within the boundaries of the occupied territories."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jan/12/israel

Edited December 31, 2008 by Splodgenessabounds

[Moon Monkey]

[/b]

The avarage Joe or Ahmed did not vote for any war but for a glimps of a better future.

According to this the avarage american Joe voted for the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, for the economic crisis etc.

Not true, your statement.

The republic party, contary to popular opinion, did not have the destruction of Iraq at the heart of its founding charters and its manifesto. Neither did it have a long history of attacking Iraq.

If my statement is not true it would make average Ahmed very very stupid or very very naive. Jesus man they even have israeli eating bunny rabbits on Hamas kids tv. Please.

[Moon Monkey]

If you are hungry and someone feeds you while the other ignores you, who do you vote for? Right...and that is how Hamas got to run the Gaza strip.

The entire world was telling them that aid would not be given to Hamas, a vote for Hamas was a vote for a blockade. Even Europe and Egypt blockade them. Why do they not get more of the food and medical aid that the people need from their puppet masters...they manage to get Grad missiles in.

[MasterPo]

Divide and conquer. The obvious long term goal of the Israel strategy is to weaken the Palestinians to the point that eventually they will dissolve.

Can you show me a make of "Palestine" as an autonumous, self-govening arab nation prior to 1948? How about those "territories" prior to 1967?

ps- I would remind your weak history that the West Bank was part of Jordan and Gaza part of Egypt prior to 1967, and not part of some phantom arab "Palestine".

[MasterPo]

They have built decent housing, schools, universities etc. Before Hamas 1/2 a million worked in israel.

Really???

Can you point me at me articles that describe the apartments, condos and houses the Saudis have built for them?

Where in Jordan have the Universities been built that give free education to them?

What are the names of the hosiptals in Syria that are dedicated to caring for them?

How many have been employed by UAE and other oil nations in industry?

What link on the Egyptian government's website describes the thousands of fellow arab refugees they have taken in over the years?

[MasterPo]

but there is a small minority who says that two wrongs don't make a right.

There were also a handful of nut cases who went to Iran and sat at the "symposium" that determined the Holocaust never happened. I wouldn't count them as representatives of even 1% of Jews.

[Moon Monkey]

Really???

Can you point me at me articles that describe the apartments, condos and houses the Saudis have built for them?

Where in Jordan have the Universities been built that give free education to them?

What are the names of the hosiptals in Syria that are dedicated to caring for them?

How many have been employed by UAE and other oil nations in industry?

What link on the Egyptian government's website describes the thousands of fellow arab refugees they have taken in over the years?

I was clearly talking about the West Bank and Gaza. I don't know where the financing came from but they are there.

[questionmark]

in related news:

Poll: 65 percent favor Gaza ground assault

Published: Dec. 31, 2008 at 9:13 AM

JERUSALEM, Dec. 31 (UPI) -- A big majority of Israelis support launching a ground invasion of the Gaza Strip targeting the militant Palestinian group Hamas, a survey indicates.

More than 65 percent of respondents to an online poll conducted by The Jerusalem Post favored a ground incursion, the newspaper reported Wednesday. The results were non-representative and included 5,500 respondents, it said.

The survey revealed that nearly 23 percent rejected the possibility of a ground operation, arguing that the Israeli military can continue using its air force instead, while 12 percent supported a limited incursion into Gaza.

Meanwhile, about 54 percent said Israel's main goal in the operation should be to topple the Hamas regime and take over the Gaza Strip, while 25 percent said Hamas should be removed but only if it were accompanied by a clear exit strategy.

The Post didn't report when the poll was taken nor provide a margin of error.

Source: UPI