120 reportedly killed in Israeli strikes on

[odas]

The republic party, contary to popular opinion, did not have the destruction of Iraq at the heart of its founding charters and its manifesto. Neither did it have a long history of attacking Iraq.

If my statement is not true it would make average Ahmed very very stupid or very very naive. Jesus man they even have israeli eating bunny rabbits on Hamas kids tv. Please.

My point, bud. All political ( or terrorist ) parties leave out what is most important to them and say only what the people want to hear.

Hamas=Israelie Government=Bush=Mugabe=Putin=Hitler=Ahmadinedjad=Sarkozy=....... all the same sh***.

[stevewinn]

When is Israel going to send in the troops?

how the feck did Hamas smuggle in rockets with a 30 mile range beggars belief.

seen a report on Euro News, since August 2005 when Israel pulled out of Gaza over 6,500 rockets have been fired into Israel, its no bloody wonder Israel is bombing the **** out of Hamas targets.

[MasterPo]

I was clearly talking about the West Bank and Gaza. I don't know where the financing came from but they are there.

And that's my point (in part at least).

Why in 60 years haven't their fellow arab nations - among the richest in the world! - stepped up to the plate and taken them in, given them housing and education and health care and jobs, etc etc.?? Why are they all sitting back and waiting for some miracle Eden to be formed in Gaza and the West Bank instead while their brothers suffer daily?!

[Moon Monkey]

And that's my point (in part at least).

Why in 60 years haven't their fellow arab nations - among the richest in the world! - stepped up to the plate and taken them in, given them housing and education and health care and jobs, etc etc.?? Why are they all sitting back and waiting for some miracle Eden to be formed in Gaza and the West Bank instead while their brothers suffer daily?!

I know a couple of Egyptian army officers and they cracked up when I made the same point. They told me its because they are a sore on Isreals **** and its always good to have a anti-Israel rallying cry when domestic problems need diverting. Just think of the money Iran has pumped into Hezbollah and Hamas and what could have been done with that.

[Denisius]

To all those that wondered what kind of difference the operation could bring, read the following news item:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3648424,00.html

Basically, the leader of Hamas, that just a week ago ended the cease-fire with a promise to launch even more Quassams and kidnap soldiers, is willing to bring back the cease-fire. The conditions he had set are empty of content, with a bit more of pressure he would sign the treaty with the single condition of ending the operation.

Nonetheless, the Israeli government would be foolish to accept his proposal, because even when the cease-fire was in-effect, Quassams were still launched into Israeli territory, albeit at a reduced rate.

What the Israeli government should do, in my opinion, is keep pressing the attacks, eventually weakening Hamas in such a way, that the Palestinian authority can take over. (The ruling body in the West Bank)

Edited December 31, 2008 by Denisius

[stevewinn]

these tunnels that Hamas use to smuggle weapons, cant Israel send in ground troops and just control the area where these tunnels emerge. cut off the supply chain, within a week Hamas will be running out of rockets.

[Denisius]

No, that's not entirely possible.

These tunnels are spread all over the Gaza Strip, including in places that are hard to bomb from the air. A lot of the smuggling also comes from the Egyptian side of the strip in which Israel has no say in.

In order to effectively destroy a large portion of the tunnels, a ground operation is needed.

Edited December 31, 2008 by Denisius

[questionmark]

these tunnels that Hamas use to smuggle weapons, cant Israel send in ground troops and just control the area where these tunnels emerge. cut off the supply chain, within a week Hamas will be running out of rockets.

There can be a tunnel entrance under any house 2 miles from the border on any side...no way to control that. They could not even be controlled when they occupied the strip.

[MasterPo]

CNN had a good story (surprise surprise) on those rockets being fired into Israel. They are relatively little things!

The launch tube is about a foot in diameter and 4 feet long. They are propped up on a metal wire bipod and pointed in a direction, the fuse is lit and off it goes! When it runs out of fuel it crashes and exlodes.

You can hide hundreds of these things in someone's house or just a dozen in a closet, a car trunk etc. It's not like these are advanced SAMS launched from armored mobile launching units.

The perfect terrorist weapon.

[stevewinn]

There can be a tunnel entrance under any house 2 miles from the border on any side...no way to control that. They could not even be controlled when they occupied the strip.

who the hell is aiding the building of these tunnels the Egyptians? Iran?. I imagined these tunnels where hand made Steve McQueen "great escape" type tunnels. but by the sounds of it. they've got a firm in.

[MasterPo]

who the hell is aiding the building of these tunnels the Egyptians? Iran?. I imagined these tunnels where hand made Steve McQueen "great escape" type tunnels. but by the sounds of it. they've got a firm in.

It's not that hard to dig a tunnel. Even with basic hand tools, lots of man power, and no one to turn you in you can do it pretty easily. I'm sure there are instructions somewhere online too.

Also to your point, I'm sure they are getting at least advise from someone how to do it.

[doesnt_matter]

But still they continue to do the exact same thing that has always brought the wrath of Israel down on them. Is learning from one s own mistakes like a sin in their sect of Islam or something? one kick to the crotch by a horse and I stopped pulling on his tail! See? I can be educated!

I could possbly see that as being a little on the true side. I do have a hard time believing that ALL Palistinians want war with teh Israelis. On the other hand, they had to have known what this party was all about before they voted for them. I mean, they do put up posters and hand out flyers and stuff, right?

Although I fail to see how this ties into the discussion at hand, I am a CCW card carrying pistol carrying American myself. 34 years old and all so, there. Perfectly legal! Here where I live, the averge thug has to wonder before he mugs someone, "Is this sob gonna shoot me?". From what I understand, they don't have that concern in New York. The unemployment rate there isn't all that much lower then here but, some how we don't have any where near as many muggings in Sowega. Go figure!

Don't waste your time. I have tried to point this simple little fact out a number of times myself but, usually I just get told that I am an American so I don't know anything. Well, that might be true, I might NOT know anything but, I am still right and so is this fact about the arab world.

So, what you are saying is that it is Israels fault that the Palistinisans are shooting rockets at them out fo the blue and launching terror attacks on discoteques? You know, the Jews lived in peace in the majhor cities fo the regeon under arab rule. Why can't the arabs try living in peace under Israeli rule for a while? They might even like it! After all, it was a waste land that no one wanted until the Jews moved in the the dessert started to bloom.

Maybe the arabs just don't like farms and flowers. It's the only reason that I can see for them not trying to get along at this point.

A wasted land? Says who? I wonder if Native American Indians believed they too wasted the land? Its the same old arguements to justify taking someone elses land who can not adequately defend it against offensive action.

[Pseudo Intellectual]

You can't possibly be comparing the Native Americans to the "Palestinians"...

And Israel didn't take anybody's land; it was theirs in the first place.

[doesnt_matter]

You can't possibly be comparing the Native Americans to the "Palestinians"...

And Israel didn't take anybody's land; it was theirs in the first place.

I did. And why would you think that?

[questionmark]

You can't possibly be comparing the Native Americans to the "Palestinians"...

And Israel didn't take anybody's land; it was theirs in the first place.

Seez who?

[Corp]

History actually. They just keep getting kicked out by invading powers. Babylon, Rome, Arabs...

As for the whole Palestinians vs Natives you can compare to two, somewhat. Though the Natives were the original settlers (or had completely wiped them out) while the Palestinians moved in during the Arab invasions I believe. And Israel was formed by the UN while the Europeans just moved in a declared the land their own a few acres at a time. But both where poorly treated and just like we're not going to give the Americas back to the Natives, Israel isn't going anywhere.

[questionmark]

History actually. They just keep getting kicked out by invading powers. Babylon, Rome, Arabs...

As for the whole Palestinians vs Natives you can compare to two, somewhat. Though the Natives were the original settlers (or had completely wiped them out) while the Palestinians moved in during the Arab invasions I believe. And Israel was formed by the UN while the Europeans just moved in a declared the land their own a few acres at a time. But both where poorly treated and just like we're not going to give the Americas back to the Natives, Israel isn't going anywhere.

That part is not as clear cut as some might want to make it look.... in the last 4000 years of the Middle East Israel has been controlled by Jews less than 400, in the rest of the time they either did not exist, were dominated by some other tribe or simply expulsed from the area, so the claim is more than iffy. By that rule the Christians would have a greater claim (they made about 500 years).

[Corp]

They were always there though, settled in the region. Not really their fault for having to deal with Persia, Greece, Rome, and Arabs one right after another. Israel seems to have the bad luck of always being neighbours to the new rising superpower. If we go purely by 'who was there first' then the Jews win it. If we go by 'who ruled it the longest' then...hmm...who's still around? The British. The whole area must return to British control. I'm sure they'd be more than happen to solve all the problems in the area.

[questionmark]

They were always there though, settled in the region. Not really their fault for having to deal with Persia, Greece, Rome, and Arabs one right after another. Israel seems to have the bad luck of always being neighbours to the new rising superpower. If we go purely by 'who was there first' then the Jews win it. If we go by 'who ruled it the longest' then...hmm...who's still around? The British. The whole area must return to British control. I'm sure they'd be more than happen to solve all the problems in the area.

Britain... the old empire, maybe...but that does not exist anymore either ('ceptin some Britons minds)...

And BTW...all those other tribes that now comprise the "Palestinians" were settled around there also ... especially during the last 2000 years.

ED: As for beimng there first, there is no evidence of any Jewish tribe before 1000 B.C. .... I guess it goes to the Egyptians....

Edited January 2, 2009 by questionmark

[Corp]

I heard the Egyptians were already offered Gaza and they flatly refused. So they might not want it. Hitties are gone, Assyrians are gone, Persians are gone. So think next up is you guys. Want to take the area back and rebuild the Greek empire?

Oh a more serious note are the Palestinians Arab or do they just call themselves that to make things easier? Because I believe the majority of the Arabs first settled there during their massive invasion out of Arabia after the death of Muhammad. So where there would have been tribes that were hanging around and later converted wouldn't the majority of the 'Palestinians' only have gotten there just over a thousand years ago?

Edited January 2, 2009 by Corp

[odas]

Historicly the Israelies occupied todays Isreal by takeing it violently from the Caananites who were there before, fact. So it does not historicly belong to the Hebrews.

Religiously it was the promise land for the Hebrews, promised by God.

De facto and the jure Hebrews are not the original or the sole owners of today Israel. What is now Isreal is taken by wars means occupied.

Just to make sure that I make myself understandable. I do not believe for the same reaseons that this area belongs to the Palestins either and they also can not clame they have been there first.

All I am saying is that it is a huge lie when the Hebrews say they where the first in this area and they only have the right to it.

If anyone thinks different then let us return all of America to the natives ( yes it is very much comparable to Israel ), all white people should move out of Africa, return the Balkans ( Sovenia, Crotia, Bosnia, Serbia.. ) to the rightfull owners - the Illyrs or better known today as the Albanians.......and so on and on.

One equal Law for everyone or let us just continue with the myth that some of us are better then the rest.

Amen.

[questionmark]

Historicly the Israelies occupied todays Isreal by takeing it violently from the Caananites who were there before, fact. So it does not historicly belong to the Hebrews.

Religiously it was the promise land for the Hebrews, promised by God.

De facto and the jure Hebrews are not the original or the sole owners of today Israel. What is now Isreal is taken by wars means occupied.

Just to make sure that I make myself understandable. I do not believe for the same reaseons that this area belongs to the Palestins either and they also can not clame they have been there first.

All I am saying is that it is a huge lie when the Hebrews say they where the first in this area and they only have the right to it.

If anyone thinks different then let us return all of America to the natives ( yes it is very much comparable to Israel ), all white people should move out of Africa, return the Balkans ( Sovenia, Crotia, Bosnia, Serbia.. ) to the rightfull owners - the Illyrs or better known today as the Albanians.......and so on and on.

One equal Law for everyone or let us just continue with the myth that some of us are better then the rest.

Amen.

What is the cut-off date? 'cause the Neanderthals will love this one if there is none!

[Stardrive]

If anyone thinks different then let us return all of America to the natives ( yes it is very much comparable to Israel )

Let's be fair and return Canada to the natives too..

[Corp]

What is the cut-off date? 'cause the Neanderthals will love this one if there is none!

They're too busy trying to get their tv shows to work. Don't think we need to worry about them.

Stardrive we're included in the Americas

Edited January 2, 2009 by Corp

[Stardrive]

Stardrive we're included in the Americas

LOL@ me !