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120 reportedly killed in Israeli strikes on

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So you are claiming Palistine was a functioning country? Tell me then, who was the president/dictator/prime minister/whatever of palistine before 1948? Heck name me a single goverment official. Good luck.

There was a governor of Palestine before '48, as it was part of the Ottoman Empire until '18 and later part of the British Empire. That is why one can hardly name a government official... the last governor was Herbert Samuel. Before the British time there was a governor for every major town under the supervision of Abraham Beer Sheba from 1911 on...

So, besides opinion do you have anything to offer?

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Corp
I dont think this conflict is about proving a point. Its about eliminating Hamas, and I think they would be fools to stop till the job is done.

As much as I want Hamas wiped out I'm not sure this is the best way to do it. Better to keep hitting their supply tunnels and using economic pressure on Gaza. With time the Palestinians living there will clue in that Hamas doesn't have their best interests in mind and boot them out themselves, or at least uncut their support. Blowing the hell out of Gaza only gives them more recruits. In order to use the military to destroy Hamas Israel is going to need to put soldiers into Gaza and sit on it for a good while, and it would be very bloody for both sides.

Right now my biggest worry is that the Palestinians in the West Bank will try and get in on the fighting.

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preacherman76
There was a governor of Palestine before '48, as it was part of the Ottoman Empire until '18 and later part of the British Empire. That is why one can hardly name a government official... the last governor was Herbert Samuel. Before the British time there was a governor for every major town under the supervision of Abraham Beer Sheba from 1911 on...

So, besides opinion do you have anything to offer?

LOL, Herbert Samuel Hu? LOL, that doesnt sound like any Palistinian name I ever heard of.

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preacherman76
As much as I want Hamas wiped out I'm not sure this is the best way to do it. Better to keep hitting their supply tunnels and using economic pressure on Gaza. With time the Palestinians living there will clue in that Hamas doesn't have their best interests in mind and boot them out themselves, or at least uncut their support. Blowing the hell out of Gaza only gives them more recruits. In order to use the military to destroy Hamas Israel is going to need to put soldiers into Gaza and sit on it for a good while, and it would be very bloody for both sides.

Right now my biggest worry is that the Palestinians in the West Bank will try and get in on the fighting.

I would agree, accept, there are outside powers who will, and have, found ways to keep Hamas supplied. Iran, Syria are hell bent on supplying the local terrorist. They have tryed this for years, but the bombs just keep falling. I know if Canada was bombing my house, for years, Id expect our military to eliminate that enemy.

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Mekorig
LOL, Herbert Samuel Hu? LOL, that doesnt sound like any Palistinian name I ever heard of.

Herbert_Samuel The guy was the 1st High Commissioner of Palestine, when the rule was under british rule, and was appointed by them. It is an interesting note that the guy was a zionist.

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acidhead
Yea ok. Now Mark Twain was dumb? Are you a arab?

Totally uncalled for.

Again, talk like that gets confused with racism.

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preacherman76
Totally uncalled for.

Again, talk like that gets confused with racism.

Uncalled for? Im not the one who tryed to discredit a famous Auther in American history.

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preacherman76
Herbert_Samuel The guy was the 1st High Commissioner of Palestine, when the rule was under british rule, and was appointed by them. It is an interesting note that the guy was a zionist.

That just makes him a extention of the British empire. Im talking about a leader by a sovernt nation of Palistine. You wont find one till Araffat(sp?)

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That just makes him a extention of the British empire. Im talking about a leader by a sovernt nation of Palistine. You wont find one till Araffat(sp?)

Are you trying to imply that Canada has no right to nationhood because it was a British colony until recently?

Or Congo because it was a Belgian colony until recently?

The usual bible thumping justifications do not bring us anywhere near a solution.

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preacherman76
Are you trying to imply that Canada has no right to nationhood because it was a British colony until recently?

Or Congo because it was a Belgian colony until recently?

The usual bible thumping justifications do not bring us anywhere near a solution.

I dont believe I have brought the bible into this.

The Canada reffrence would be valid, accept for the fact that Canada formed a goverment after being freed from British rule, so it isnt.

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I dont believe I have brought the bible into this.

The Canada reffrence would be valid, accept for the fact that Canada formed a goverment after being freed from British rule, so it isnt.

The Palestinians formed a government after being freed from Jordanian rule...so your argument was .... ?

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Moon Monkey
The Palestinians formed a government after being freed from Jordanian rule...so your argument was .... ?

'freed from jordanian rule', that is a new way of decribing the loss of the '67 war.

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'freed from jordanian rule', that is a new way of decribing the loss of the '67 war.

ah..but see, it happened way after it. Until Oslo the Palestinian were de jure Israelis, Jordanians or Egyptians. The Egyptians and Jordanians decided to bypass the problems that the West Bank and Gaza were for the peace process by giving West Bankers and Gazans independence.

Now, if the Israeli point of view is that they have captured the territories in '67 they can...but then must give citizenship rights to the inhabitants of the territories.

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acidhead
So you are claiming Palistine was a functioning country? Tell me then, who was the president/dictator/prime minister/whatever of palistine before 1948? Heck name me a single goverment official. Good luck.

Palestinian Arab leadership http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Manda...Arab_leadership

The British granted the Palestinian Arabs a religious leadership, but they always kept it dependent.[67] The office of “Mufti of Jerusalem”, traditionally limited in authority and geographical scope, was refashioned into that of “Grand Mufti of Palestine”. Furthermore a Supreme Muslim Council (SMC) was established and given various duties like the administration of religious endowments and the appointment of religious judges and local muftis. In Ottoman times these duties had been fulfilled by the bureaucracy in Istanbul.[67]

In ruling the Palestinian Arabs the British preferred to deal with elites, rather than with political formations rooted in the middle or lower classes.[68] For instance they ignored the Palestine Arab Congress. [gee where have we heard this before?]

The British also tried to create divisions among these elites. For instance they chose Hajj Amin al-Husayni to become Grand Mufti, although he was young and had received the fewest votes from Jerusalem’s Islamic leaders.[69] Hajj Amin was a distant cousin of Musa Kazim al-Husainy, the leader of the Palestine Arab Congress. According to Khalidi, by appointing a younger relative, the British hoped to undermine the position of Musa Kazim.[70] Indeed they stayed rivals until the death of Musa Kazim in 1934. Another of the mufti's rivals, Raghib Bey al-Nashashibi, had already been appointed mayor of Jerusalem in 1920, replacing Musa Kazim whom the British removed after the Nabi Musa riots of 1920,[71][72] during which he exhorted the crowd to give their blood for Palestine.[73] During the entire Mandate period, but especially during the latter half the rivalry between the mufti and al-Nashashibi dominated Palestinian politics.

Many notables were dependent on the British for their income. In return for their support of the notables the British required them to appease the population. According to Khalidi this worked admirably well until the mid-1930s, when the mufti was pushed into serious opposition by a popular explosion.[74] After that the mufti became the deadly foe of the British and the Zionists.

According to Khalidid before the mid-1930s the notables from both the al-Husayni and the al-Nashashibi factions acted as though by simply continuing to negotiate with the British they could convince them to grant the Palestinians their political rights.[75] The Arab population considered both factions as ineffective in their national struggle, and linked to and dependent on the British administration. Khalidi ascribes the failure of the Palestinian leaders to enroll mass support to their experience during the Ottoman period, when they were part of the ruling elite and were accustomed to command. The idea of mobilising the masses was thoroughly alien to them.[76]

There had already been rioting and attacks on and massacres of Jews in 1921 and 1929. During the 1930s Palestinian Arab popular discontent with Jewish immigration and increasing Arab landlessness grew. In the late 1920s and early 1930s several factions of Palestinian society, especially from the younger generation, became impatient with the internecine divisions and ineffectiveness of the Palestinian elite and engaged in grass-roots anti-British and anti-Zionist activism organized by groups such as the Young Men's Muslim Association. There was also support for the growth in influence of the radical nationalist Independence Party (Hizb al-Istiqlal), which called for a boycott of the British in the manner of the Indian Congress Party. Some even took to the hills to fight the British and the Zionists. Most of these initiatives were contained and defeated by notables in the pay of the Mandatory Administration, particularly the mufti and his cousin Jamal al-Husayni. The younger generation also formed the backbone of the organisation of the six-month general strike of 1936, which marked the start of the great Palestinian Revolt.[77] According to Khalidi this was a grass-roots uprising, which was eventually adopted by the old Palestinian leadership, whose 'inept leadership helped to doom these movements as well'.

Edited by acidhead43

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Ufo Believer

Is anyone else watching CNN right now. There are atleast 10 or 12 protest against Isreal going on throught the Arab parts of the world right now.

Edit: Within the protests people are chanting "Free Free Palestine."

Edited by Ufo Believer

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acidhead
ah..but see, it happened way after it. Until Oslo the Palestinian were de jure Israelis, Jordanians or Egyptians. The Egyptians and Jordanians decided to bypass the problems that the West Bank and Gaza were for the peace process by giving West Bankers and Gazans independence.

Now, if the Israeli point of view is that they have captured the territories in '67 they can...but then must give citizenship rights to the inhabitants of the territories.

Yup, that was part of the agreement, future Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion, declared.

[On the date of British withdrawal the Jewish provisional government declared the formation of the State of Israel, and the provisional government said that it would grant full civil rights to all within its borders, whether Arab, Jew, Bedouin or Druze] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Manda...te_and_1948_War

The Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel, 14 May 1948 stated:

We appeal ... to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.

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stevewinn

This whole middle east problem is going to go on for eternity. radical action is needed to end the problems once and for all. for the sake of everyone.

I'll hold my hands up and admit i don't know enough about the whole saga and no where near qualified to come up with the ideal solution. but by the looks of things neither is anyone else.

what if Israel moves all the Palestinians from Gaza over to west bank over a X amount of years.

Israel pulls back her border to the 1967 positions.

The new land acquired by the Palestinians will be declared a country with international borders and everything.

the neighbouring Arab countries can fund all the building projects like brand new settlements/infrastructure for the Palestinians because their always so keen to help,... (put their money where their mouth is time)

Edited by stevewinn

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acidhead

More history on the creation of a Jewish Homeland by force and blackmail:

The negative publicity resulting from the situation in Palestine meant the mandate was widely unpopular in Britain, and caused the United States Congress to delay granting the British vital loans for reconstruction. [this is called BLACKMAIL]

At the same time, many European Jews were finding their way to the United States. An increasing growing influence in American politics, many Zionist backers won over sympathizers in the American and other Western governments. The Labour party had promised before its election to allow mass Jewish migration into Palestine. Additionally the situation required maintenance of 100,000 British troops in the country. In response to these pressures the British announced their desire to terminate the mandate and withdraw by May 1948. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Manda...e_Jewish_Revolt

The British Peel Commission proposed a Palestine divided between a Jewish and an Arab State, but in time changed their position and sought to limit Jewish immigration from Europe to a minimum. This was seen by Zionists and their sympathisers as betrayal of the terms of the mandate, especially in light of the increasing persecution in Europe and was met with a popular uprising and guerrilla war from Jewish terrorist groups, often viewed as one of several factors that led the British to hand the problem over to the United Nations.

On 29 November, the UN General Assembly voted 33 to 13, with 10 abstentions, in favour of the Partition Plan, while making some adjustments to the boundaries between the two states proposed by it. The division was to take effect on the date of British withdrawal. Both the United States and Soviet Union agreed on the resolution. In addition, pressure was exerted on some small countries by Zionist sympathizers in the United States.[93] The five members of the Arab League who were voting members at the time voted against the Plan, as did the United Kingdom. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Manda..._Partition_Plan

Numerous records indicate the joy of Palestine's Jewish inhabitants as they attended the U.N. session voting for the division proposal.

The British had notified the U.N. of their intent to terminate the mandate not later than 1 August 1948.[94], but Jewish Leadership led by future Prime Minister, David Ben-Gurion, declared independence on 14 May. The State of Israel declared itself as an independent nation, and was quickly recognized by the Soviet Union, the United States, and many other countries, but not by the surrounding Arab states. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine#Termination_of_the_Mandate_and_1948_War

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Moon Monkey
ah..but see, it happened way after it. Until Oslo the Palestinian were de jure Israelis, Jordanians or Egyptians. The Egyptians and Jordanians decided to bypass the problems that the West Bank and Gaza were for the peace process by giving West Bankers and Gazans independence.

Now, if the Israeli point of view is that they have captured the territories in '67 they can...but then must give citizenship rights to the inhabitants of the territories.

It would still be a lot easier if they were just returned to the pre-67 position and become Egyptian and Jordanian citizens again.

As for the protests, not a single word from the muslim world about suicide bombers blowing 14, 8-10 year-old schoolkids to pieces yesterday in the name of Allah...but put Israel in the mix and out they come. People forget how it was 15 years ago before Hamas started all the suicide bombings and 250,000 Gazan men were working in Israel but no....... Hamas good, Israel bad.

There is a deal to be done, it was nearly there in 98 and was nearly there again until Hamas took over Gaza. Israel isn't an angel, neither is Fatah but Hamas are the no. 1 obstacle to peace and I cannot understand why so many people cannot see it.

Hey Steve...Gerrard is going down for a stretch.

Edited by Moon Monkey

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This whole middle east problem is going to go on for eternity. radical action is needed to end the problems once and for all. for the sake of everyone.

I'll hold my hands up and admit i don't know enough about the whole saga and no where near qualified to come up with the ideal solution. but by the looks of things neither is anyone else.

what if Israel moves all the Palestinians from Gaza over to west bank over a X amount of years.

Israel pulls back her border to the 1967 positions.

The new land acquired by the Palestinians will be declared a country with international borders and everything.

the neighbouring Arab countries can fund all the building projects like brand new settlements/infrastructure for the Palestinians because their always so keen to help,... (put their money where their mouth is time)

It is a solution, but would only work if the Gazans would agree, forced it amounts to ethnic cleansing...and that IS illegal

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johnk81

My own views on Palestine (this is the country) is that the state of Israel are occupiers and still are , you need to see it objectively if in your back yard of your sovereign state someone else was ushered in against your will , would you be happy? Israel stems from so many positions geographically , Israel wasn't a state , but a community within Palestine before there exodus - so Israel is where exactly?. IMO if this was my homeland then resorting to fighting is what anyone would do like the Palestinians. Israel have not just pushed there borders to Palestine but also to Egypt and Syria - I can see why the surrounding states aren't happy , Palestinians are still being and have been persecuted , starved and cut off by the west due to Israel's ties with the U.S.A.

Now why didn't the U.S.A , who pushed the sanction of the Israeli state through the U.N, put them up in their own country - 1 whole state of the U.S.A sworn sovereign to the nation of Israel?

Why have nuclear facilities and technology been given to Israel by western governments - the one and only reason that Palestine is suffering is that Israel is expanding and people are dying is because of the wests want and need to control the Middle East.

ME

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stevewinn
Hey Steve...Gerrard is going down for a stretch.

:o he'll be out soon, five others have been arrested with him, (friends i believe) the bloody DJ got over excited. and well,.......just wait for the police report to see what went on, but i have a feeling the DJ kicked off, which seen stevies mates jump in and the police have rounded them all up. This type of occurrence happens every Friday and Saturday night down town, and no one bats an eyelid, but because Gerrard has a name, the media are all over the story like a rash. talk about mountains and mole hills

Edited by stevewinn

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Moon Monkey
My own views on Palestine (this is the country) is that the state of Israel are occupiers and still are , you need to see it objectively if in your back yard of your sovereign state someone else was ushered in against your will , would you be happy? Israel stems from so many positions geographically , Israel wasn't a state , but a community within Palestine before there exodus - so Israel is where exactly?. IMO if this was my homeland then resorting to fighting is what anyone would do like the Palestinians. Israel have not just pushed there borders to Palestine but also to Egypt and Syria - I can see why the surrounding states aren't happy , Palestinians are still being and have been persecuted , starved and cut off by the west due to Israel's ties with the U.S.A.

Now why didn't the U.S.A , who pushed the sanction of the Israeli state through the U.N, put them up in their own country - 1 whole state of the U.S.A sworn sovereign to the nation of Israel?

Why have nuclear facilities and technology been given to Israel by western governments - the one and only reason that Palestine is suffering is that Israel is expanding and people are dying is because of the wests want and need to control the Middle East.

ME

sigh.....again,

There was no state, no Israel, no Palestine, just a mandated region that was to be divided into 2 states in a similar way to Syria, Jordan and Lebanon were, and 60 years on they are still trying to get back to that.

Israel were not given anything but a bit of uranium by the west. Gaza is also cut off by Egypt, why don't you vent your fury at them ? They are egyptian after all.

How is Israel expanding ? It held Sanai, S.Lebanon, Gaza and the parts of the Jordan Valley that were Jordanian...now it doesn't. Thats the opposite of expanding its called land for peace but only works with proper peace partners.

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Corp

That is true. As far as I'm aware Israel has been shrinking, doing the whole Land for Peace deal. And part of the reason why Gaza is suffering is due to the economic blockade, one that has the fully support of Egypt. The surrounding Arab countries haven't always done what's best for the Palestinians.

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johnk81
sigh.....again,

There was no state, no Israel, no Palestine, just a mandated region that was to be divided into 2 states in a similar way to Syria, Jordan and Lebanon were, and 60 years on they are still trying to get back to that.

Israel were not given anything but a bit of uranium by the west. Gaza is also cut off by Egypt, why don't you vent your fury at them ? They are egyptian after all.

How is Israel expanding ? It held Sanai, S.Lebanon, Gaza and the parts of the Jordan Valley that were Jordanian...now it doesn't. Thats the opposite of expanding its called land for peace but only works with proper peace partners.

The Egyptian view was forcefully changed via the war in the Sinai - the president of Egypt , Muhammad Anwar Al Sadat , who recognised the state of Israel through military pressure from Israel and pressure from the U.S.A was assassinated. All the Arab states do not recognise it. The main one was Iraq but they have already been taken care of , Iran next? the possibilities are endless. The U.S.A's view in the Middle East 'put up or shut up'. Who knows where the religious alliance of Israel and the U.S.A will take us to next.

Doomsday?

ME

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