Facts about Israel and "Palestine"

[churchanddestroy]

The 'facts' as I see it: Two groups of people are being equally idiotic in that they can't ****ing get along. They negotiated a cease fire. One of the groups broke the cease fire by lobbing rockets at civilian targets. The other group, fed up with years of terrorism, unleashed hell on group 1. And now, as before, there are two groups of idiots who can't get along. And now they're killing one another.

Seriously, what gives?

[MasterPo]

Did you feel a slight breeze as the point of my post went sailing over your head? I pointed out that using ancient Israel as a justification for displacing a population that had lived in an area for 2000 years in order to create a nation is frankly a dumbshit reason. I don't recall actually mentioning Hamas once.

I did feel a warm breeze from your post. And a stench too.

If you make that claim about "palestinians" then how would you feel about the American Indian doing the same? Surely the Europeans pushed them of land they had been on for hundreds of years if not longer.

[Pseudo Intellectual]

The 'facts' as I see it: Two groups of people are being equally idiotic in that they can't ****ing get along. They negotiated a cease fire. One of the groups broke the cease fire by lobbing rockets at civilian targets. The other group, fed up with years of terrorism, unleashed hell on group 1. And now, as before, there are two groups of idiots who can't get along. And now they're killing one another.

Seriously, what gives?

That's frickin' propaganda! They're not two "equally idiotic" groups. They're one terrorist organization that aims to kill as many Israelis as possible, and one modern, civilized country that wants to live in peace even if that meant going to war with said terrorist organization.

I really hate this "equal blame" bullsh*t.

Edited January 6, 2009 by Pseudo-Intellectual

[Guardsman Bass]

I did feel a warm breeze from your post. And a stench too.

If you make that claim about "palestinians" then how would you feel about the American Indian doing the same? Surely the Europeans pushed them of land they had been on for hundreds of years if not longer.

You keep trying to make this red herring work - that I somehow said the Palestinians have a right to get land back after all that has gone down. They don't, as I pointed out in my original post - what I'm criticizing is the original foundation (the land claim based on biblical history) of Israeli nationalism. Now that Israel is here and existing, and all the people displaced are either dying or dead, the land passes into Israeli control. The same with the natives in the US.

In other words, squatters' rights.

[preacherman76]

That's frickin' propaganda! They're not two "equally idiotic" groups. They're one terrorist organization that aims to kill as many Israelis as possible, and one modern, civilized country that wants to live in peace even if that meant going to war with said terrorist organization.

I really hate this "equal blame" bullsh*t.

[Mekorig]

That's frickin' propaganda! They're not two "equally idiotic" groups. They're one terrorist organization that aims to kill as many Israelis as possible, and one modern, civilized country that wants to live in peace even if that meant going to war with said terrorist organization.

I really hate this "equal blame" bullsh*t.

And talking about propaganda...tell all the people how had family in Israeli prision for not good reason, or their properties seized, or their nation usurped to buy colonies, or treated like trash by fereign troops, tell them that Israel is a "modern, civilized country that wants to live in peace". Thsi will not end until both sides leave the ****** religious ******** aside.

[preacherman76]

And talking about propaganda...tell all the people how had family in Israeli prision for not good reason, or their properties seized, or their nation usurped to buy colonies, or treated like trash by fereign troops, tell them that Israel is a "modern, civilized country that wants to live in peace". Thsi will not end until both sides leave the ****** religious ******** aside.

It will end when people like you see this for what it is and stop supporting terror.

[IrishAidan07]

^ Agree.

It's really only a very small faction of Islam that takes things to the extreme. As for the Israeli terror groups? Few and far between. Israel is a fundamentally secular society, and many of the hardcore Jews are against an Israeli State in the first place.

[Mekorig]

It will end when people like you see this for what it is and stop supporting terror.

preacherman76, think before tiping. Some would consider that an insult. And you are wrong, i dont support terrorism. In fact, i dont support either side here. Neither of both are angels or demons. I just gave my opinion based on what info i can get, and from what i can see, Israel current action will not stop terrorism, but encourage it.

[Mekorig]

^ Agree.

It's really only a very small faction of Islam that takes things to the extreme. As for the Israeli terror groups? Few and far between. Israel is a fundamentally secular society, and many of the hardcore Jews are against an Israeli State in the first place.

The first fact is correct usually, but there are still some elements of religion deeply ingrained in the modern israeli society that affact you negatible if you are not a jew. After all, Israel is a jew confetional state.

The second thing you write is not soo true. There are some very orthodox jews that belive this is not the time for the Jew state on earth, but they are a very vocal (and very tiny) minority. Most of the orthodox jew are for a jew state where is Israel now. Funny if you think that some of the original supporters for Israel were secular socialists.

[IrishAidan07]

The first fact is correct usually, but there are still some elements of religion deeply ingrained in the modern israeli society that affact you negatible if you are not a jew. After all, Israel is a jew confetional state.

The second thing you write is not soo true. There are some very orthodox jews that belive this is not the time for the Jew state on earth, but they are a very vocal (and very tiny) minority. Most of the orthodox jew are for a jew state where is Israel now. Funny if you think that some of the original supporters for Israel were secular socialists.

What I mean by the first thing is that Israeli law is essentially a rehashed version of English Common Law. They have no actual constitution, but rather a series of laws which are not, for the most part, based on religious doctrine.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/th...ok/geos/is.html

As for the second thing, the fact they are very vocal is enough. Israel takes crap from every which way. Also, the increasingly marginal Orthodox Jew is another amplifier for the point that Israel really is a secular society.

EDIT: Given that, I really do not believe one can reasonably claim that Israel is engaged in a religious war of sorts. It's a war for survival, I feel.

Edited January 6, 2009 by IrishAidan07

[Mekorig]

What I mean by the first thing is that Israeli law is essentially a rehashed version of English Common Law. They have no actual constitution, but rather a series of laws which are not, for the most part, based on religious doctrine.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/th...ok/geos/is.html

As for the second thing, the fact they are very vocal is enough. Israel takes crap from every which way. Also, the increasingly marginal Orthodox Jew is another amplifier for the point that Israel really is a secular society.

EDIT: Given that, I really do not believe one can reasonably claim that Israel is engaged in a religious war of sorts. It's a war for survival, I feel.

Diferent points of view. From what i know, see and read, the Israeli goverment is influenced by religion, turning this is some kind of religious conflict.

[IrishAidan07]

Diferent points of view. From what i know, see and read, the Israeli goverment is influenced by religion, turning this is some kind of religious conflict.

I don't doubt that some of those in control of the government are very religious people and, perhaps, view this as a religious war. I just don't think the majority of the population view it as anything other than a war for survival.

[Mekorig]

I don't doubt that some of those in control of the government are very religious people and, perhaps, view this as a religious war. I just don't think the majority of the population view it as anything other than a war for survival.

There is a good number of israeli that are secular, and are filled up of all this conflict. The internal conflict betewn them and the most religious faction in Israel is expressed well in bi-polar actitudes of the Israeli goverment like the continual funding and removal of colonies in occupied territories. I hope, for the best of the region, that the secular part of Israel finally gets the control of the country. The same for the Palestinians.

[Bill Hill]

Separating the fact from the propaganda.

Here's two common misconceptions.

1- Palestine invented Plasticine.

This is untrue.

In fact it was formulated by art teacher William Harbutt of Bathampton, near Bath, England in 1897

2- Israel (Jewish people) invented copper wire.

Again untrue..

Thomas B. Doolittle (1839-1921) invented hard copper wire.

He created the first hard-drawn copper wire made tough-skinned by a fairly simple process. This hard wire was used for line wire and vastly extended the range of telephone transmission.

[Mekorig]

Separating the fact from the propaganda.

Here's two common misconceptions.

1- Palestine invented Plasticine.

This is untrue.

In fact it was formulated by art teacher William Harbutt of Bathampton, near Bath, England in 1897

One of the few good things that have come from England ever. Thanks England for Plasticine!

[Mishari]

man usa is the new empire powerhouse just like Britain used to be and as long as usa is the powerhouse in this world then Israel will do whatever the hell it wants which completely ****ed up! Think of it this way Israel is like cancer that will kill Palestine! How would you feel if i took over your OWN house and kicked you out if it and made you sit out on the street in a tent???

[AzTide]

man usa is the new empire powerhouse just like Britain used to be and as long as usa is the powerhouse in this world then Israel will do whatever the hell it wants which completely ****ed up! Think of it this way Israel is like cancer that will kill Palestine! How would you feel if i took over your OWN house and kicked you out if it and made you sit out on the street in a tent???

From this posting it looks as if the Arabs kicked the Jews our first... And the Jews returned..

[acidhead]

man usa is the new empire powerhouse just like Britain used to be and as long as usa is the powerhouse in this world then Israel will do whatever the hell it wants which completely ****ed up!

How would you feel if i took over your OWN house and kicked you out if it and made you sit out on the street in a tent???

I agree with you. Israeli zionists and western foreign policy lobbyists are a threat to the safety of everybody on the planet.

How did you feel about the Gulf war in '91 and how do you feel about American and Western foreign policy in the Middle East as a whole?

[MasterPo]

I agree with you. Israeli zionists and western foreign policy lobbyists are a threat to the safety of everybody on the planet.

Get rid of the U.S. and Israel!

That's the only answer.

Better get rid of the Jews too. They'll just start up again else where.

[acidhead]

Get rid of the U.S. and Israel!

That's the only answer.

Better get rid of the Jews too. They'll just start up again else where.

whatever

[MasterPo]

whatever

You're the one who said that Zionists and Israel are a threat to everyone on the planet. And who controls Israel? Jews.

So what do you do with a threat?

[acidhead]

You're the one who said that Zionists and Israel are a threat to everyone on the planet. And who controls Israel? Jews.

So what do you do with a threat?

With support of the International community you create awareness and gain support to charge the criminals responsible.

But you NEVER do what you are suggesting.

Your suggestion reeks of GW Bush's underwear.

[Plainbob13]

With support of the International community you create awareness and gain support to charge the criminals responsible.

But you NEVER do what you are suggesting.

Your suggestion reeks of GW Bush's underwear.

Huh. I thought that was your breath.

[MasterPo]

With support of the International community you create awareness and gain support to charge the criminals responsible.

But you NEVER do what you are suggesting.

Your suggestion reeks of GW Bush's underwear.

What do you think people have been doing for the last 40 years at least?

So, in typical liberal style, you're going to sit around and "talk" for how many years? While how many people die?

Doesn't sound like effective problem solving to me.