Israeli Forces begin full-scale invasion.

[stevewinn]

I've seen reports of a possible long term ceasefire between the two. but unfortunately Hamas only wants a 6 month ceasefire, most probably to regroup, resupply and in six months time we'll be back to square one.

Lets hope Hamas as a rethink.

[keithisco]

Have I missed something here?

Isnt MOSSAD supposed to be super efficient and capable of "neutralising" any threats to Israel with clinical efficiency? If they knew where weapon dumps were, or rocket storage facilities were wouldnt they use their "extraordinary" abilities and just take them out on the ground before they could be used?

I think Israel actively allows these weapons to be stored and used to give them justification for cluster-bombing and killing whomever they feel fit to kill. They strangle Gaza year after year - not allowing it any economic freedom, they decide whether or not (as is often the case) any humanitarian supplies are allowed in, they are the regional bullies and terrorists IMO

[the-Unexpected-Soul]

Israel is using America to complete their agenda , if American economy didn't survive the heart attack , Israel will dumb America and hang with the next rising power like china or what ever , except if America won the lottery or if the CPR worked

Edited January 7, 2009 by maa2007

[Corp]

Have I missed something here?

Isnt MOSSAD supposed to be super efficient and capable of "neutralising" any threats to Israel with clinical efficiency? If they knew where weapon dumps were, or rocket storage facilities were wouldnt they use their "extraordinary" abilities and just take them out on the ground before they could be used?

I think Israel actively allows these weapons to be stored and used to give them justification for cluster-bombing and killing whomever they feel fit to kill. They strangle Gaza year after year - not allowing it any economic freedom, they decide whether or not (as is often the case) any humanitarian supplies are allowed in, they are the regional bullies and terrorists IMO

If that was true the death toll would be in the thousands, not the hundreds. Israel made a mistake and they will need to answer for it but they're not going out of their way to kill civilians. Heck just saw on CNN that they're going to stop their attacks for a few hours every other day so that supplies can get into Gaza. It's not much, but it's a start.

One thing that I don't understand is where all the hatred for Israel comes from. The calls for their destruction, the claims that they want to murder children, the protests, and all the UN resolutions against them. Yes they have done bad things but why aren't other countries getting the same hatred? Killings continue in Darfur but Sudan still hads their friends. The government of Burma would rather millions die than accept foreign aid but no one condemns them daily. China is hard at work wiping out Tabetan culture and no one says a word. But it seems that if Israel so much as steps on an ant everyone gets up in arms about it. Just don't see what makes Israel so 'evil'.

[Mekorig]

That school was a weapons dump. According to the Geneva Convention, if the enemy stores or utilizes military assets near or in a school, hospital or other civilian targets, that target is fair game.

Not acording to an argentine relief doctor working in a gazan hospital. I heard her in a radio interview this morning, and she declared that there werent any fighters or ammon storaged there. The UN have given Israel the position of all their building in Gaza, and they fire anyway.

In other things, its true, Israel is restraining themself a lot. If they would want to make a genocide, they have a lot of weapons to kill civilians in greater numbers.

[Aztec Warrior]

The jews love sacrificing people to send a message.

How many innocent people will have to die to send the message this time?

On television they're reporting massive protests from Israelis citizens and politicians

who are totally against a ground invasion.

Just like in America, the politicians don't listen to their citizens either.

The Israeli and American governments are totally out of control.

Is this the solution to making the world safer?

The Jews love to sacrifice? Massive protests?

{MasterPo is lookin for the waves of Jewish suicide bombers but can't find any...)

That's because they were all sacrificed.

Israel is not a country, nor a recognized State.

It was a huge mistake.

Who ever told you that? They are, in fact a nation state, even if you feel the Brits made a mistake.

Give this person a round of applause. Israel was a mistake and should never have been created. Good luck to Hamas fighting off the genocidal forces of Israel.

How many more Palestinian civilians will Israel kill and claim they were 'militants?'

How many Israelis civilians must be terrorized and killed before people like you bat an eye?

The anti-semetism on this forum is outstanding.

Yes it is, and when you call the kettle black be prepared for the inevitable personal attack.

Check your sources. Who supported Hitler the most?

Those numbers you mention were fabricated after WWII.

No Odas, I don't believe they were. As for who supported Hitler the most....probably Italy and Japan.

I keep thinking of the articles I read on "Bush's plan to hasten the Rapture"

http://www.rapturealert.com/news.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenth...th_b_57826.html

Trying To Force

The Rapture

By Johnathan Richards

http://www.rense.com/general67/rap.htm

That's a bunch of loony conspiracy crap and you only have about two weeks for this to materialize.

Hitler had full support of America until 1941. The Vatican, seeing it's in Italy, of corse had full support from Hitler until 1944, when Il Duce Benito M. had surrenerd to the Allies.

Who told you that? Neither the Vatican nor America were supporting Hitler or Germany. Look up the lend/lease act, for example.

A lotta testosterone in here too.

IMO no military option will solve the dispute.

No matter how loud and obnoxious the GI Joes chant death to their enemies.

Notice how the chant Repo did above is similar to Hamas or Hezboolaa?

Its rather silly and leaves the poster in the same light as the enemy he opposes.

GI Joe refers to American soldiers. The only people chanting death are Hamas.

Let's hit close to home. The boston tea party was an act of unmitigated terrorism. Was it evil?

Who was terrorized, the British Navy? Unmitigated....

Have I missed something here?

Isnt MOSSAD supposed to be super efficient and capable of "neutralising" any threats to Israel with clinical efficiency? If they knew where weapon dumps were, or rocket storage facilities were wouldnt they use their "extraordinary" abilities and just take them out on the ground before they could be used?

I think Israel actively allows these weapons to be stored and used to give them justification for cluster-bombing and killing whomever they feel fit to kill. They strangle Gaza year after year - not allowing it any economic freedom, they decide whether or not (as is often the case) any humanitarian supplies are allowed in, they are the regional bullies and terrorists IMO

The weapons were being smuggled via tunnels during the entire cease-fire.

[Corp]

Seems like Israel is sending a few people to Egypt to start talking about a cease-fire. So just need to hope Hamas is willing to talk too, though wouldn't surprise me if they refused. Lives losts seems to equal good PR for them, and they've shown in the past they care nothing for the lives of civilians.

[Aztec Warrior]

Seems like Israel is sending a few people to Egypt to start talking about a cease-fire. So just need to hope Hamas is willing to talk too, though wouldn't surprise me if they refused. Lives losts seems to equal good PR for them, and they've shown in the past they care nothing for the lives of civilians.

Hamas's stated goal is the destruction of Israel, so any cease-fire is simple an opportunity to rearm.

[TheResearcher]

I'm not going to pretend I know all about the situation with Gaza and Israel; but here's what I can see at the moment. Hamas are attacking Israel with rockets; firing at civilians. All that Israel is doing is removing that threat, as would any country in the west would if it were attacked. I keep hearing on the news about how Israel are causing a humanitarian crisis and how civilians are dieing there. It is a war; civilians die, it can't be prevented. At least Israel are not intentionally targetting innocents in contrast to Hamas. I can't believe Israel allowed a temporary ceasefire (in which Hamas incidentally continued to fire rockets at Israeli civilians); they should not allow Hamas to reorganised, wipe them all out. I'm pretty sure if Hamas are not destroyed more civilians would die than in a extended Israeli attack on Gaza.

[MasterPo]

I've seen reports of a possible long term ceasefire between the two. but unfortunately Hamas only wants a 6 month ceasefire, most probably to regroup, resupply and in six months time we'll be back to square one.

[MasterPo]

Yes it is, and when you call the kettle black be prepared for the inevitable personal attack.

Your saying I'm an anti-semite? ROTFLMAO!!!!

[Pseudo Intellectual]

Not acording to an argentine relief doctor working in a gazan hospital. I heard her in a radio interview this morning, and she declared that there werent any fighters or ammon storaged there.

So if some girl says something, it immediately becomes a fact?

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/About+the+Minist..._6-Jan-2009.htm

Today, a reported 30 Palestinians were killed in a heartrending tragedy at a school in Jebaliya. Initial investigations indicate that Hamas terrorists fired mortar bombs from the area of the school towards Israeli forces, who returned fire towards the source of the shooting. The Israeli fire landed outside the school, yet a series of explosions followed, indicating the probable presence of munitions and explosions in the building. Intelligence indicates that among those killed were Immad Abu Iskar and Hassan Abu Iskar, two known Hamas mortar crewmen. (italics added)

Israel didn't kill anyone, in this case, Hamas did.

[Dusty Digital]

I'm not going to pretend I know all about the situation with Gaza and Israel; but here's what I can see at the moment. Hamas are attacking Israel with rockets; firing at civilians. All that Israel is doing is removing that threat, as would any country in the west would if it were attacked. I keep hearing on the news about how Israel are causing a humanitarian crisis and how civilians are dieing there. It is a war; civilians die, it can't be prevented. At least Israel are not intentionally targetting innocents in contrast to Hamas. I can't believe Israel allowed a temporary ceasefire (in which Hamas incidentally continued to fire rockets at Israeli civilians); they should not allow Hamas to reorganised, wipe them all out. I'm pretty sure if Hamas are not destroyed more civilians would die than in a extended Israeli attack on Gaza.

To a certain degree I agree, but civilian deaths can and should be kept to a minimum. I don't see this as the case now, as outside aid to the civilian population is strictly limited by the Israelis. The problem is, every Hamas fighter has family, friends, and a social network. Every Hamas fighter killed (not to mention every civilian killed!) spawns more anger hate and distrust among other arab civilians. You simply can't "kill them all".

About your last sentece, Hamas rocket attacks have killed 20 Israelis since 2005. The current Israel attack has killed 600 Palestinians and left more than 2500 wounded. In other words, if Hamas continued its attacks at the same rate they have for the past 3 years, it would take them about 85 years to match the amount of Palestinians already killed in Israel's current operation.

Edited January 8, 2009 by Dusty Digital

[Pseudo Intellectual]

About your last sentece, Hamas rocket attacks have killed 20 Israelis since 2005. The current Israel attack has killed 600 Palestinians and left more than 2500 wounded.

That's 'cause Israel actually spends some of its money on the safety of its citizens.

[Bill Hill]

The problem is, every Hamas fighter has family, friends, and a social network. Every Hamas fighter killed (not to mention every civilian killed!) spawns more anger hate and distrust among other arab civilians. You simply can't "kill them all".

I think that is true. If you're a innocent Palestinian and a Israeli bomb kills half your family, then naturally you're going to join Hamas.. and blame the Israelis. You're not going to blame Hamas..

The same thing happened in the 70's when the British Gov came down hard on the IRA and its supporters. The result was infact IRA membership increased-

It's a complicated mess, which imo needs new methods to contain. Although at this point, negotiation seems out of the question.

[Dusty Digital]

I think that is true. If you're a innocent Palestinian and a Israeli bomb kills half your family, then naturally you're going to join Hamas.. and blame the Israelis. You're not going to blame Hamas..

The same thing happened in the 70's when the British Gov came down hard on the IRA and its supporters. The result was infact IRA membership increased-

It's a complicated mess, which imo needs new methods to contain. Although at this point, negotiation seems out of the question.

For once we agree.

[Bill Hill]

For once we agree.

Must be a full moon again...

[odas]

Must be a full moon again...

Hi Billy. What is happening to you? You see the world now from all sides. I am proud of you.

Long live Billy, long live the Queen, long live the British.

[Bill Hill]

Hi Billy. What is happening to you? You see the world now from all sides. I am proud of you.

Long live Billy, long live the Queen, long live the British.

I banged my head over christmas.

I have me moments.

[Stardrive]

To a certain degree I agree, but civilian deaths can and should be kept to a minimum. I don't see this as the case now, as outside aid to the civilian population is strictly limited by the Israelis. The problem is, every Hamas fighter has family, friends, and a social network. Every Hamas fighter killed (not to mention every civilian killed!) spawns more anger hate and distrust among other arab civilians. You simply can't "kill them all".

About your last sentece, Hamas rocket attacks have killed 20 Israelis since 2005. The current Israel attack has killed 600 Palestinians and left more than 2500 wounded. In other words, if Hamas continued its attacks at the same rate they have for the past 3 years, it would take them about 85 years to match the amount of Palestinians already killed in Israel's current operation.

I agree Dusty, the problem seems to be self perpetuating. There is a miltary imbalance between the two, all the more reason for Hamas not to randomly fire rockets into it's neighboring country.

But the hate you speak of is/was already in place from the beginning. The main problem I see is they have become psycologicaly co-dependant on this feeling of hate. What I mean is, what would happen if they got everything they ever wanted? What would become of their old friend hate? I'm not sure the hate they feel would magically dissapear, just eventually redirected.

But in the end, it's a sad day when like a thief in the night the gift of life is taken.

ALL HAIL BILLY !

[acidhead]

I think that is true. If you're a innocent Palestinian and a Israeli bomb kills half your family, then naturally you're going to join Hamas.. and blame the Israelis. You're not going to blame Hamas..

The same thing happened in the 70's when the British Gov came down hard on the IRA and its supporters. The result was infact IRA membership increased-

It's a complicated mess, which imo needs new methods to contain. Although at this point, negotiation seems out of the question.

Thanks Bill.. this is how I feel about the situation(s) as well.

All the military options do, long term, is spawn new hatred.

And I always ask, " Is this how we make the world safer?"

And I get sh!t on for it!

[Mekorig]

So if some girl says something, it immediately becomes a fact?

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/About+the+Minist..._6-Jan-2009.htm

Israel didn't kill anyone, in this case, Hamas did.

I can acces your link.

In other things, i cant find the AP article right now, but there was an official recognition from the ISreali goverment that the Hamas soldiers attacked from near the UN school, but not from inside as they told in the first time. And that was not the only attack to UN building from Israel. I just readed a report about a cleary signaled relief truck destroyed by the Israeli army. The IDF is currently investigating what happened.

[odas]

I banged my head over christmas.

I have me moments.

I propse for the next Christmas that everyone in the world bangs their head. This should be mandatory for all nations and religions.

To set an example I will go first.

[Moon Monkey]

Had Israel lifted the siege during the cease fire, prompting starving palestinians to launch rockets in retaliation, none of this would be happening.

This is a fact most Israelis and Israel supporters fail to acknowledge.

Take a walk in somebody elses shoes for a change.

During the 6 month seize fire agreement Israel was supposed to lift the blockades.

During the 6 month seize fire zero Hamas rockets were fired until the end of the 6 month agreement.

Israel imposed a siege or a blockade to the Gaza concentration camp limiting everything from food to supplies.

Israel and Israeli supporters calls it a blockade to stop weapons from entering.

The world calls it a siege or discrimination and a humanitarian crisis.

During the 'seige' the WFO warehouses were full and all airconditioners were running full blast...where was that food and electricity coming from ?

During the 'ceasefire' rockets were fired, Hamas just said it was not them it was 'factions'...yeh.

Stop the Israeli attack, stop Iranians supplying ever bigger and better rockets, stop firing them, open the borders as they were supposed to be..Rafah under Egyptian and Europeon suppervision, the Israeli ones under Israeli supervision and Hamas sort their side out. It all stops and goes away. Sounds ok ? Hamas say that this 'doesn't serve the purpose of the palestinian people'. There you have it

Edited January 9, 2009 by Moon Monkey

[Bill Hill]

Thanks Bill.. this is how I feel about the situation(s) as well.

All the military options do, long term, is spawn new hatred.

And I always ask, " Is this how we make the world safer?"

And I get sh!t on for it!

Don't worry the message is getting through..

There's conspiracies..it's just finding the right ones which is complicated.