few things i found about the jews

[Wyvernkeeper]

Irrelevent, i was not citing the website... I was citing the charter, here it is in a few more places.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/1980_...20THE%20ISLAMIC

http://www.standwithus.com/pdfs/flyers/Hamas_covenant.pdf

There are countless more. Just google it, Hamas is an organisation which seems to seek little more than the continuation of its own war, abusing its own people and forcing them to live in an area of conflict through its actions. The Palestinians are an oppressed people and I fully believe that their situation is untenable and intolerable but when I see huge crowds of Westerners chanting support for Hamas it makes me sick. It is still possible to support the Palestinians and the two-state solution without supporting self-confessed murderers, Hamas are not freedom fighters - they are manipulators who have been cast by the western media as the underdogs in the great war against the Israeli satan, which appeals to a lot of people. It is however untrue.

[acidhead]

Irrelevent, i was not citing the website... I was citing the charter, here it is in a few more places.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/1980_...20THE%20ISLAMIC

http://www.standwithus.com/pdfs/flyers/Hamas_covenant.pdf

There are countless more.

This links provided, detailing Hama's government charter are clearly an Israeli government link and a Support Israel Link.

Look at the web link screen shots:

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/1980_...20THE%20ISLAMIC

http://www.standwithus.com/pdfs/flyers/Hamas_covenant.pdf

[Unknown Rebel]

Yes but as it has already been stated it is irrelevant where the Charter is, the fact of the matter is that Hamas wishes to destroy Israel.

[Noteaph]

shocking

Wouldnt you if your people were opressed and systematically eradicated over the last decades?

It certainly would cross my mind anyway..

[Moon Monkey]

shocking

Wouldnt you if your people were opressed and systematically eradicated over the last decades?

It certainly would cross my mind anyway..

Care to elaborate ?...... the figures seem to suggest otherwise in Gaza, occupied West Bank and palestinians within Israel proper.

[AlexG]

I believe the population of both the West Bank and Gaza have never been higher.

That decades long plan of eradication doesn't seem to be working to well, does it?

[OldTimeRadio]

You'll have to forgive me but I think that site might be biased toward Israel. I've found a few clues.

To the extent that this is true, I think it is instead biased against people who fire rockets into populated areas and then seem utterly stunned when other people dare fault their behavior.

[Noteaph]

To the extent that this is true, I think it is instead biased against people who fire rockets into populated areas and then seem utterly stunned when other people dare fault their behavior.

This is a incomplete, biased view IMO. Cause = Israeli occupation and colonization. Effect = guarilla warfare by the occupied civility (Palestinians/ Libanese). To state the Palestinians are the cause / firestarters is plain wrong and misleading, again, IMO.

IMO, although it is a hard fact the occupation and colonization preceed the guerilla activities of the Palestinians.

On the eradication part; indeed there is still a high population level in Gaza, 50% though are youth under the age of 15, this should tell you something awry is going on with the adult populous. Plus the fact Israeli occupy 30% (which until recently they were expanding) of the Gaza strip will further enlarge the population- density on the Palestinian zone. Israel would love to be able to eradicate the Palestinians in one blow, given international scrutiny, they're taking baby steps to attain thesame goal IMPO. Ensuring they can both attain their goal while retaining the 'victim' role.

[Moon Monkey]

This is a incomplete, biased view IMO. Cause = Israeli occupation and colonization. Effect = guarilla warfare by the occupied civility (Palestinians/ Libanese). To state the Palestinians are the cause / firestarters is plain wrong and misleading, again, IMO.

IMO, although it is a hard fact the occupation and colonization preceed the guerilla activities of the Palestinians.

On the eradication part; indeed there is still a high population level in Gaza, 50% though are youth under the age of 15, this should tell you something awry is going on with the adult populous. Plus the fact Israeli occupy 30% (which until recently they were expanding) of the Gaza strip will further enlarge the population- density on the Palestinian zone. Israel would love to be able to eradicate the Palestinians in one blow, given international scrutiny, they're taking baby steps to attain thesame goal IMPO. Ensuring they can both attain their goal while retaining the 'victim' role.

So wrong its difficult to know where to start.

Guerilla activity by the palestinians preceded what we now call 'occupation'. Even the PLO was formed in the early 60's, they were simply anti-establishment of a state of Israel under the UN partition plan.

Palestinians perse are not firestarters but the fundamentalist muerderous terrorists are. You could ask the families of the Fatah members thrown off buildings, thats when the latest fire was started.

Something is awry with the adult populous, they are having kids that they expect the world to feed and clothe.

Israel does not occupy 30% of Gaza.

Now you have changed from 'they are eradicating' to ' they would love to eradicate'. Thats a baby step but encouraging.

[Noteaph]

I added some nuance to my earlier statements, change is not the right term I would think.

You taking ancouragement from this is lovely but unfounded Im affraid.

"Israel does not occupy 30% of Gaza". Ok, if you say so

The PLO is another matter entirely, you know what PLO stands for I presume? If Palestina did not need liberating, would PLO exist?

Edited January 13, 2009 by Noteaph

[Moon Monkey]

I added some nuance to my earlier statements, change is not the right term I would think.

You taking ancouragement from this is lovely but unfounded Im affraid.

"Israel does not occupy 30% of Gaza". Ok, if you say so

The PLO is another matter entirely, you know what PLO stands for I presume? If Palestina did not need liberating, would PLO exist?

I do say so, you would be better looking things up.

Palestine was the area of the Ottoman empire known as Syria that was mandted to British rule and split under the UN partition plan...and yes they did want it liberating, they wanted it Israel-free and that was pre-67.

Edited January 13, 2009 by Moon Monkey

[OldTimeRadio]

This is a incomplete, biased view IMO.

What in blazes is "biased" about objecting to terrorists firing rockets at civilians?

Back in the late 19th Century the United States badly mistreated several Indian tribes, who escaped to Canada, where they still reside.

Do you believe that if those tribes begin firing rockets across the border into the U. S. the White House will say, "Oh, that's just revenger for 150 years ago," and ignore the attacks?

If you believe that I've got some really neat stuff to sell you.

Edited January 14, 2009 by OldTimeRadio

[Noteaph]

The PLO is another matter entirely, you know what PLO stands for I presume? If Palestina did not need liberating, would PLO exist?

I do say so, you would be better looking things up.

Palestine was the area of the Ottoman empire known as Syria that was mandted to British rule and split under the UN partition plan...and yes they did want it liberating, they wanted it Israel-free and that was pre-67.

You would be better to read my good man. Your 'correction' doesnt correct anything I stated, just elaborated on it (which Im indeed thankfull for ofcourse).

What in blazes is "biased" about objecting to terrorists firing rockets at civilians?

It is biased because it is incomplete my good man. That is what biased means you know, only putting forth that part or parts of information which puts the side you favor in a better position.

I think you two are better off talking to eachother as you dont seem to take kindly to (approaching) unbiased views.

Have fun now

[Noteaph]

An interesting rant from one of the few good US congressmen (relevant to the topic offcourse):

[preacherman76]

shocking

Wouldnt you if your people were opressed and systematically eradicated over the last decades?

It certainly would cross my mind anyway..

They got along just fine with the Jews till Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Leb forced them to become enemies.

[Moon Monkey]

The PLO is another matter entirely, you know what PLO stands for I presume? If Palestina did not need liberating, would PLO exist?

You would be better to read my good man. Your 'correction' doesnt correct anything I stated, just elaborated on it (which Im indeed thankfull for ofcourse).

It is biased because it is incomplete my good man. That is what biased means you know, only putting forth that part or parts of information which puts the side you favor in a better position.

I think you two are better off talking to eachother as you dont seem to take kindly to (approaching) unbiased views.

Have fun now

Your ramblings are becoming unfathomable and your unwillingness to acknowledge facts makes debate impossible. Bye.

[stevewinn]

Your ramblings are becoming unfathomable and your unwillingness to acknowledge facts makes debate impossible. Bye.

Moon, your mate.

[OldTimeRadio]

It is biased because it is incomplete my good man. That is what biased means you know, only putting forth that part or parts of information which puts the side you favor in a better position.

With all respect, you seem to define "unbiased" as having opinions in lock-step with your own and "biased" as daring to entertain variant views.

[Noteaph]

QUOTE (Moon Monkey @ Jan 14 2009, 06:45 PM) *

Your ramblings are becoming unfathomable and your unwillingness to acknowledge facts makes debate impossible. Bye.

Moon, your linked-image mate.

Thats funny, thats exactly how I feel.

Daring to entertain variant views he says (implying himself as being able to).. damn..

You dudes just keep to your ´facts´.. Ill stay with mine. Fact is, Israel is murdering unacceptable numbers of women and children (leaving casualty rates on Israeli side with a wanting blush), thus is the biggest terrorist in this context. White fosfor seems to be the new hot toy in this.

They are completely ignoring international law / geneva convention on several very concerning aspects. Facts huh.. right.

Must say, very impressed by the sophisticated (or is it agressive?) way you communicate.

Have a nice one..

Edited January 15, 2009 by Noteaph

[Noteaph]

http://kritiskmodpol.blogspot.com/2009/01/...se-concern.html

facts for the factdealers..

[preacherman76]

Thats funny, thats exactly how I feel.

Daring to entertain variant views he says (implying himself as being able to).. damn..

You dudes just keep to your ´facts´.. Ill stay with mine. Fact is, Israel is murdering unacceptable numbers of women and children (leaving casualty rates on Israeli side with a wanting blush), thus is the biggest terrorist in this context. White fosfor seems to be the new hot toy in this.

They are completely ignoring international law. Facts huh.. right.

Must say, very impressed by the sophisticated (or is it agressive?) way you communicate.

Have a nice one..

No Hamas is murdering women and children, by fireing on Israel from populated area's. This is rocket science.

[Noteaph]

Let me just reply to that somewhat strange and hard to understand last statement with another shocker for you people:

Hamas is an Israeli product in its origin. Just like your beloved´Al Qaeda` was born with money from the states.

Crazy huh..

And yes there are Israeli casualties, what, approaching 35? Palestinians 1000+.

[Moon Monkey]

Thats funny, thats exactly how I feel.

Daring to entertain variant views he says (implying himself as being able to).. damn..

You dudes just keep to your ´facts´.. Ill stay with mine. Fact is, Israel is murdering unacceptable numbers of women and children (leaving casualty rates on Israeli side with a wanting blush), thus is the biggest terrorist in this context. White fosfor seems to be the new hot toy in this.

They are completely ignoring international law / geneva convention on several very concerning aspects. Facts huh.. right.

Must say, very impressed by the sophisticated (or is it agressive?) way you communicate.

Have a nice one..

1) I didn't say anything about daring to entertain variant views, you are becoming confused.

2) You state, as fact, that Israel occupies 30% of Gaza, I pointed out this is incorrect which you refuse to acknowledge.

3) The international red cross do not attribute any ignoring of international conventions, can you be specific ?

4) Low casulty rates are a feature of the government of Israel protecting their citizens, I only wish Hamas cared as much for theirs.

5) White 'fosfor' (?), has been used by both sides. Israel have used it as it is intended..as a smokescreen for advancing troops, why do Hamas use it ?

[Noteaph]

1) I didn't say anything about daring to entertain variant views, you are becoming confused.

2) You state, as fact, that Israel occupies 30% of Gaza, I pointed out this is incorrect which you refuse to acknowledge.

3) The international red cross do not attribute any ignoring of international conventions, can you be specific ?

4) Low casulty rates are a feature of the government of Israel protecting their citizens, I only wish Hamas cared as much for theirs.

5) White 'fosfor' (?), has been used by both sides. Israel have used it as it is intended..as a smokescreen for advancing troops, why do Hamas use it ?

1) wasnt directed at you (ego, ego);

2) I state Israel occupies about 30 percent of Gaza indeed, in which you reply its not and you are offended when I dont comply? Nice.

3) I can, using excessive force with resulting excessive, excessive (yeah thats twice there) colateral damage and using unlawfull weaponry in civilian

zones like fosfor or phosphor in English I think (even if there are a handfull of possible ´Hamas´ operatives) and the like (this should be serious

enough though wouldnt you agree).

4) low casualty rates are an inclination to the fact we are talkling about an utter uneven contest in which the superior side is ignoring every humane

consideration in their efforts to destroy a guerilla group spawned from their own efforts, killing hundreds of civilians in the process.

Yes Hamas is an Israeli product.

5) So where are the Israeli casulaties of this, tens of Palestinians have been afflicted, you would think if this was the case on the other sidem one

would hear about it no? But then again, you are the one with all the facts arent you.

Have a nice one

[Moon Monkey]

1) wasnt directed at you (ego, ego);

2) I state Israel occupies about 30 percent of Gaza indeed, in which you reply its not and you are offended when I dont comply? Nice.

3) I can, using excessive force with resulting excessive, excessive (yeah thats twice there) colateral damage and using unlawfull weaponry in civilian

zones like fosfor or phosphor in English I think (even if there are a handfull of possible ´Hamas´ operatives) and the like (this should be serious

enough though wouldnt you agree).

4) low casualty rates are an inclination to the fact we are talkling about an utter uneven contest in which the superior side is ignoring every humane

consideration in their efforts to destroy a guerilla group spawned from their own efforts, killing hundreds of civilians in the process.

Yes Hamas is an Israeli product.

5) So where are the Israeli casulaties of this, tens of Palestinians have been afflicted, you would think if this was the case on the other sidem one

would hear about it no? But then again, you are the one with all the facts arent you.

Have a nice one

1) You quoted me, thats directing it at me...no ego.

2) Israel does not occupy 30% of Gaza, you are starting to look silly.

3) Maybe you can but I think I'll go with the International Red Cross.

4) You would think Hamas would care enough for their own citizens not to fire rockets then wouldn't you, no matter how they were spawned.

5) A simple search of news organisation reports would also enable you to find the same facts, as with the 30% occupation of Gaza, your unwillingness speaks volumes...you just don't want to know.

Edited January 15, 2009 by Moon Monkey