Russia cuts off gas to Europe

[Lord Umbarger]

Russia halts gas supplies to European countries

Russia has halted all gas supplies to European countries including Turkey and Greece.

The move comes amid a deepening rift between Russia and Ukraine, which hosts a pipeline supplying gas from its bigger neighbour to countries across Europe.

Bulgaria and Macedonia also reported that all supplies of Russian gas had been cut, while Romania's pipeline operator said that its supplies had been cut by 75 per cent.

Bulgaria's finance ministry said the country was facing a crisis. Petar Dimitrov, the economy and energy minister, said: "Russia and Ukraine must find an urgent solution because the energy systems of dozens of countries are at risk."

The European Commission condemned the cuts as "completely unacceptable". In an unusually strongly worded statement, it demanded that Russia restore supplies "immediately".

Russia ordered a reduction in gas flow to Europe via Ukraine on Monday, a measure it said was to stop its neighbour from stealing fuel. Ukraine said the move would jeopardise supplies to the rest of Europe, which is facing freezing temperatures.

Some of you may remember me babbling on and on incessently about how the growing dependancy on Russian fuel would give the Russians too much power over the European nations and could be used as a tool to pressure them into voting its way in the U.N. or to just muscle them into acting right, Russian style. As I recall, I was dismissed and laughed at. Well, here it is happening and not even for a control reason!

In short, when Lord Umbarger tells you that his cat can write poetry, don't look at him like he is crazy, just get the pen and paper out for the kitty!

READ MORE OF MY PREDICTION COMING TRUE HERE!

Edited January 6, 2009 by Lord Umbarger

[stevewinn]

This turning off of the gas should come has no surprise, its a annual Event.

[ASOP]

It is.....?

[stevewinn]

It is.....?

Yes.

2007

Russians turn off Europe's oil supply

Moscow abruptly halted millions of barrels of oil destined for the EU via Belarus in an increasingly hostile wrangle with its neighbour.

The move raised further questions over whether Western Europe can trust Mr Putin for its energy supply. Experts said that Russia had a deeply entrenched habit of manipulating oil and gas supplies as a substitute for diplomatic policy.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle1290800.ece

2006

Russia cuts off gas supply to Ukraine

Published: SUNDAY, JANUARY 1, 2006

MOSCOW: Russia began cutting off gas to Ukraine in a dispute that could hit deliveries to a wintry Europe on the very day that Moscow debuted as chairman of the Group of Eight industrialised nations.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/01/01/eur...web.0101gas.php

2005

Russia prepares to turn off gas to Ukraine

By Neil Buckley in Moscow, Raphael Minder in Brussels and Roman Olearchyk in Lviv, Ukraine

Published: December 30 2005 20:02 | Last updated: December 30 2005 20:02

Russia was on Friday night preparing to turn off gas to Ukraine on Sunday for the first time since the collapse of the Soviet Union, posing a threat to the stability of supplies to western Europe.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e664458e-796d-11...?nclick_check=1

[Repoman]

Actually the "2005" and "2006" events were the same. So this annual event has happened twice before in history.

[Lord Umbarger]

...its a annual Event.

I didn't no t know that. Still, you have to wonder why it is that they only seem to have these shortages in the winter, huh? I'm sure that they were probably forewarned that it gets mighty cold in the northern lattitudes when winter rolls around.

Personally, I think tha tthis is jut a thinly veiled attempt at showing Europe that they are able to make a winter storm really hurt. You know, just to give the Europeans a little something to think about before they vote against the Russians in the U.N. on some thing that the FSR really wants.

I am still holding to my original prediction though! When things go badly for Russia on a global issue and Europe forgets to tow the line, I think Moscow is going to use this fuel supply as a "gentle little reminder" of who is boss in Europe! I hope that I am wrong but, does anyone really think so?

[keithisco]

I think it comes down to economics - Ukraine get their gas heavily subsidised relative to central europe, and they should pay a similar amount (IMO). The gas pipeline that feeds into central europe passes through the Ukraine and I'm not entirely convinced that they wouldnt just "tap" into it.

However - it does show up a fundamental flaw in energy supply in the region with 1 player seeming to hold all the trump cards. Tactically, if the status quo should change, then Russia has enormous power at its fingertips.

Alternatives are needed now for those nations dependent on friendly trading terms with Russia - because that can change in a split-second to conflict.

[Stardrive]

It's things like this that should make governments realize it is a priority to develope alternate energy sources to meet energy needs.

[MARAB0D]

I didn't no t know that. Still, you have to wonder why it is that they only seem to have these shortages in the winter, huh? I'm sure that they were probably forewarned that it gets mighty cold in the northern lattitudes when winter rolls around.

It happened historically, that they sign new contract every year and it starts January 01. In the past Russia was trying to keep Ukraine happy by providing gas at huge discounts, but the new pro-American government came in 2004, and since Russia demands to trade on market prices. Ukraine had several years to adjust to them, so the gas prices were gradually risen since 2004, but still were remaining below 40% of what Europe pays - even a week ago Russia was offering $250 per million cubic meters, but Ukraine insists on $205 (Europe pays $500), so Russia dropped the discount offer and now asks full $450... This price however would set the entire Ukrainian industry broke, as they use gas to melt metals, which are down in prices currently.

The major gas contributors are Central Asian countries, from whom Russia buys for EU and Ukraine. EU tried to have them joining NABUCCO pipeline project, to bypass Russia and Ukraine - and Russia countered this move by agreeing to buy from them at European prices minus transpotration fees, so now instead of $70 per million cubes, it buys at $340, and can not afford to make big discounts anymore. Now the CA countries may not be able to export at all (if Ukraine closes the tap), and this would push them to NABUCCO idea - but Russian troops in Georgia are already blocking the way for it...

[momentarylapseofreason]

It happened historically, that they sign new contract every year and it starts January 01. In the past Russia was trying to keep Ukraine happy by providing gas at huge discounts, but the new pro-American government came in 2004, and since Russia demands to trade on market prices. Ukraine had several years to adjust to them, so the gas prices were gradually risen since 2004, but still were remaining below 40% of what Europe pays - even a week ago Russia was offering $250 per million cubic meters, but Ukraine insists on $205 (Europe pays $500), so Russia dropped the discount offer and now asks full $450... This price however would set the entire Ukrainian industry broke, as they use gas to melt metals, which are down in prices currently.

The major gas contributors are Central Asian countries, from whom Russia buys for EU and Ukraine. EU tried to have them joining NABUCCO pipeline project, to bypass Russia and Ukraine - and Russia countered this move by agreeing to buy from them at European prices minus transpotration fees, so now instead of $70 per million cubes, it buys at $340, and can not afford to make big discounts anymore. Now the CA countries may not be able to export at all (if Ukraine closes the tap), and this would push them to NABUCCO idea - but Russian troops in Georgia are already blocking the way for it...

Marabod, thanks for the info on what's going on behind the curtain. I understand more now.

[MasterPo]

Don't worry. The Messiah will sit down and talk with them. All will be right with the world then.

[grither]

Don't worry. The Messiah will sit down and talk with them. All will be right with the world then.

I don't like Obama too much but he is better than Bush but what is wrong with discussing situations before resorting to violence? Would you also stop with the messiah bull****? It's really annoying.

[MasterPo]

I don't like Obama too much but he is better than Bush but what is wrong with discussing situations before resorting to violence?

Violence? No no. There shouldn't be any violence in the world any more after January 20th. Our Messiah will sit down with everyone and through the sheer power of his words, charisma of his approach and aw of his magnificant presence he will bring together all sides and heal the long standing wounds. This is the promise of our new leader and light Barak Hussein Obama. Long live the Messiah!

[Lt_Ripley]

Violence? No no. There shouldn't be any violence in the world any more after January 20th. Our Messiah will sit down with everyone and through the sheer power of his words, charisma of his approach and aw of his magnificant presence he will bring together all sides and heal the long standing wounds. This is the promise of our new leader and light Barak Hussein Obama. Long live the Messiah!

you are a sad bitter little man aren't you !

[MasterPo]

you are a sad bitter little man aren't you !

Do you or anyone here deny that Obama was packaged and sold to the American people as a great healer of wounds? As a person with the power to bring conflicting sides together? As a man who could build bridges to opposing sides of a conflict? As someone who is a master of oral communication? As a great negotiator and leader of opinion?

I just have very high expectations of such a person and intend to hold him to the image.

[rassy]

I'm sure that they were probably forewarned that it gets mighty cold in the northern lattitudes when winter rolls around.

*giggle* I found this statement extremely funny!!! Um, yeah, I'm sure they need to be forewarned abt the temp situations during the winter in the northern latitudes...

... ...I have nothing serious to add to this thread...

[grither]

Violence? No no. There shouldn't be any violence in the world any more after January 20th. Our Messiah will sit down with everyone and through the sheer power of his words, charisma of his approach and aw of his magnificant presence he will bring together all sides and heal the long standing wounds. This is the promise of our new leader and light Barak Hussein Obama. Long live the Messiah!

You act like a child. Drop it. No one is calling him a messiah but you.

[Pseudo Intellectual]

He's acting like a child? He's not even serious, he's just joking and making fun of how people have such high expectations for Barack Obama.

On the other hand, I've put up with 8 years(!) of anti-Bush bullcrap (such as calling him an evil clueless dumbass), and the Liberals weren't even joking about it!

Edit: Removed offensive comment.

Edited January 7, 2009 by AztecInca

[Godsnmbr1]

He's acting like a child? He's not even serious, he's just joking and making fun of how people have such high expectations for Barack Obama.

On the other hand, I've put up with 8 years(!) of anti-Bush bullcrap (such as calling him an evil clueless dumbass), and the Liberals weren't even joking about it!

Edit: Removed offensive comment.

Yeah but Bush IS an evil clueless dumbass. See the difference there?

[Bez]

Yeah but Bush IS an evil clueless dumbass. See the difference there?

you gotta add fuel to the fire dont you?

When everyone was called Bush names in his second election I was telling everyone (before i came to this forum) that we should give him a chance to fix it all. He didn't and it's over it's done. Now everyone is putting all their hopes and dreams and directing them at Obama and the guy isn't in office yet.

Master Po, shut up. I feel the same as you do but goddamn every time I read a "messiah" post I want to strangle you. Stop being an arrogant jerk and let him take office. If he totally messes up, slam him then. But for now, you just look like a fool, and if he does do horrible in office, no one will want to listen to you then due to all the steam you burned up now. Every topic about the world you post in gets turned into the "I hate Obama and will be ridiculed for it" topic. It's old, it excruciatingly annoying, and it makes be feel like I should have voted for him instead of McCain.

[Pseudo Intellectual]

Bush is not evil, he might be a little gullible (he keeps trusting Democrats) but he's not evil.

[chemical-licker]

lord can you predict the national lottery numbers please if the cat is hallucinating and giving out numbers i will personally hand him a piece of paper

[keithisco]

Do you or anyone here deny that Obama was packaged and sold to the American people as a great healer of wounds? As a person with the power to bring conflicting sides together? As a man who could build bridges to opposing sides of a conflict? As someone who is a master of oral communication? As a great negotiator and leader of opinion?

I just have very high expectations of such a person and intend to hold him to the image.

Talk about de-railing a topic

Does everything have to have a USA angle to it?

If you want to belittle Obama then open a new thread! This is not the place for it

[MasterPo]

Yeah but Bush IS an evil clueless dumbass. See the difference there?

Yup.

He's so dumb he planned and carried out 9/11 in secret and there are no documents, recordings or eye wittnesses!

He's so dumb he masterminded the real estate collaps, banking collaps and stock market collaps and no one else - not Pelosi or Frank or Dodd or even Obama himself - had any idea what was going on until it was too late.

And he is secretly supporting Israel in Gaza to further his genocidal ideas against arabs.

Yes sir. He is a totally idiot. Amazing the man can walk and breath at the same time.

[MARAB0D]

Yes sir. He is a totally idiot. Amazing the man can walk and breath at the same time.

Even more amazing is that he was elected for a second term. One term could be a probability joke, but the second one... Still means he has or at least had a plenty of fans - who then abandoned him when he started to lose at the end. Who is better - he or them? He was a sinking ship,... left by the rats. Too late now to criticize, he already got his "shoooes"