Unidentified Submerged Objects ~ USOs

[Drago]

No, not really. During its whole reign, it was always a shallow water fish. Why would it just now adapt to deep sea water? Less food and more pressure would rule out its existence in the deep

The same could of course be said of aliens. Why bother adapting their technology to underwater use? If they have 40 mile long invisible motherships that become totally undetectable by any human sense or technology, why bother hiding in such a dangerous place? What advantages do they gain moving from orbit to the seabed?

And the 'less food' card is a questionable one. Some of the largest predatory whales go specifically for meals at great depths and great danger to themselves. Why do they bother doing this when the shallow seas offer much easier prey? We don't know.

Yes we have. We have many many captive great whites. We observe their behaviors daily.

As has already been pointed out, we do not, and never have had 'many many captive great whites'. They are not a species that does well in captivity, and it's generally regarded as a death sentence for them. We understand so little about them that it's been acknowledged to be very hazardous to their health to keep them in captivity. And while we may observe some small part of their daily behaviors, we know very little about how those small parts of their daily behaviors fits into the great picture of their existence.

Wrong, we know quite a lot.

Not wrong. It's common knowledge among people who have an interest in this sort of thing that we have never seen great whites mate, or give birth. We do not know where their preferred mating areas are, the intricacies of how great whites go about the act compared to other sharks, or why they do it when they do.

I repeat: There is a great deal about Great White Sharks we do not know, and may never know. No amount of simply telling me I'm wrong will change this easily verified fact.

The ocean is big, but something like the meg would need to snack on whales. Why dont dead whales show large chunks of flesh missing?

We don't know the meg would have to snack on whales. We don't know that there aren't larger animals, like the giant squid, living at great ocean depths in numbers that could sustain a population. We know next to nothing about deep ocean existence and the life there. It's such an incredibly difficult place to explore that we may never be able to do so.

This is not a good analogy. We know less about et life than the megaladon. We know alot about the meg as to rule out its existence today is neccessary

Oh? According to timfix and several other posters we know a very great amount about the ET life visiting us. Why don't you take a look at some of their encyclopedic catalogues of the 57 varieties of alien life visiting Earth on a daily basis, or the books by 'trustworthy, honest contactees' that tell all about the Euro-Gray Alliance of 1574 or the commonly acknowledged practice of the aliens giving us technology to rape our planet's resources?

All we know about Megaladon is we find some really, really big fossil teeth sometimes that look like they must have come from a fifty foot, multi-ton great white shark.

Responses in bold.

[Mattshark]

Its unveriable because it defies known technology

No, unverifiable because it can't be replicated.

[Mattshark]

Father of the swamp gas debunk Dr J Allen Hyneck had some interesting things to say about project blue book (or project whitewash as its referred to by others).

He was the one of the chief scientists/astronomers involved with the project and was initialy employed by the American government/USAF to debunk the UFO subject.

He was also initaly very sceptical but after years of impartialy studying credible military case files and using the scientifc tool of arriving at judgement 'after' dispassionately examining evidence, he completely reversed his position and stated the UFO subject to be a very real one (similar to the way the UK's Ministry of Defense UFO official Nick Pope did).

Dr. J. Allen Hynek speaking in the 1970s:

Dr. J. Allen Hynek speaking in the 1980s:

http://www.cohenufo.org/ocr.3b.html

Other quotes by CIA directors/Military commanders:

That is nice for him. That doesn't give actual credence to any of it though.

All Nick Pope did was make minor reports on what information he received, after seeing what the MoD released, he must have been quite bored at the time.

And all he says is UFO, that could simply add up to a plane no one recognised or knew about.

[makaya325]

That is nice for him. That doesn't give actual credence to any of it though.

All Nick Pope did was make minor reports on what information he received, after seeing what the MoD released, he must have been quite bored at the time.

And all he says is UFO, that could simply add up to a plane no one recognised or knew about.

Planes are ruled out. Thats what a ufo is

[S2F]

Planes are ruled out. Thats what a ufo is

Anything that is misidentified can be a UFO. There was a popular thread just a couple of weeks ago where the unidentified object turned out to be a bird. (some believers will still debate this however. ) Unidentified planes (or helicopters even) are easily one of the leading causes of UFO reports IMO.

[Mattshark]

Anything that is misidentified can be a UFO. There was a popular thread just a couple of weeks ago where the unidentified object turned out to be a bird. (some believers will still debate this however. ) Unidentified planes (or helicopters even) are easily one of the leading causes of UFO reports IMO.

Most common place for UFO sightings -> Next to the airport.

Edited February 9, 2009 by Mattshark

[makaya325]

A very small amount of cases arent unknowns bc they lack info.. their unknown because no known phenomona fits its description

[Mattshark]

A very small amount of cases arent unknowns bc they lack info.. their unknown because no known phenomona fits its description

Or the data is simply not good enough, it could have also been misrepresented. There are many possibilities. But anecdotes are not useful if you want reliable information.

[makaya325]

Or the data is simply not good enough, it could have also been misrepresented. There are many possibilities. But anecdotes are not useful if you want reliable information.

Cant they be used to find things? Ex: I found your dog smith. Hes here. Am i reliable?

[karl 12]

Unidentified planes (or helicopters even) are easily one of the leading causes of UFO reports IMO.

Yes planes,birds,planets,Chinese lanterns,mylar balloons,Lenticular clouds etc.. can all be misidents yet there still leaves a percentage which are truly perpelexing -some sightings are also corellated with radar evidence,either from the ground or in the air.

Heres quite an interesting case from Australia:

[Hazzard]

Yes planes,birds,planets,Chinese lanterns,mylar balloons,Lenticular clouds etc.. can all be misidents yet there still leaves a percentage which are truly perpelexing -some sightings are also corellated with radar evidence,either from the ground or in the air.

As long as there is any doubt, we cant be sure... This is why we need evidence that points to ET only. Like a ship, an alien artifact, or a body

[Mattshark]

Cant they be used to find things? Ex: I found your dog smith. Hes here. Am i reliable?

Different scenario.

[Resonance]

Well, if you think about it..

What shape will easilly cut through 'air', and 'water'....

Of course, a disc shape..

It will be the most aerodynamic shape you could build.

I am also very interested in the USO phenom..

I wonder though, with the amazing speed and turns they accomplish in the water, (caught on sonar), what could possibly accomplish this without being smashed up against the sides of the craft?

Either they have what i and i'm sure others would call, an Inertia Negator, or their craft is filled with liquid so that when they do make these hair pin turns, they don't fly around the inside of the craft..

Any1 have any ideas on the 'inertia negator' ?

[makaya325]

Different scenario.

explain

[timfix]

explain

some people get cemented into believeing a certain way and they go around trying to prove their point regardless of the actual truth.

you may chose to call it narrow minded thinking , in the 70's the metaphor used was tunnel vision.

[Captain Zim]

Well, if you think about it..

What shape will easilly cut through 'air', and 'water'....

Of course, a disc shape..

It will be the most aerodynamic shape you could build.

Actually it is a teardrop shape (subsonic) and varying degrees of reverse teardrop shapes (supersonic). Disc shapes can turn more easily.

I am also very interested in the USO phenom..

I wonder though, with the amazing speed and turns they accomplish in the water, (caught on sonar), what could possibly accomplish this without being smashed up against the sides of the craft?

Either they have what i and i'm sure others would call, an Inertia Negator, or their craft is filled with liquid so that when they do make these hair pin turns, they don't fly around the inside of the craft..

Any1 have any ideas on the 'inertia negator' ?

The "drive system" merely has to be some kind of gravity well. But there are several alternatives.

[Queenofthefairies]

Most common place for UFO sightings -> Next to the airport.

not true, when i saw three i was nowhere near the airport

<QueenoftheFairies>

[Drago]

He said it's the most common place, not that everyone who sees one sees them there.

[karl 12]

Are you not just engaging in the old 'UFO cynic' school of thought which involves shoehorning in a preconceived explanation irrespective of any eyewitness testimony or factual evidence?

Whilst its certainly worth dispassionately examining each and every possiblity before arriving at an objective conclusion,the debunker method usualy entails superimposing

a premeditated opinion onto an incident whilst at the same time wilfully ignoring any glaring discrepencies,factual innacuracies or contradictory evidence that gets in their way.

name='Mattshark' date='Feb 7 2009, 12:27 AM' post='2734204']

No, I am not just shoehorning

So,out of all numerous credible Military/Naval/civilian USO incidents listed here (and witnessed by experienced ship's captains,sailors and submariners) your explanation is bioluminessence.

Where the same visualy confirmed objects have also been captured,tracked and plotted on sonar screens travelling huge speeds and performing completely unprecedented underwater manoevres , your answer is to then disregard bioluminessence and instead say whales.

And where any of the sworn eyewitness testimony does not fit snugly with this preconceived hypothesis you say they must be lying,delusional or mistaken.

I'd say thats shoehorning -read the opening paragraph again.

Edited February 10, 2009 by karl 12

[Resonance]

So,out of all numerous credible Military/Naval/civilian USO incidents listed here (and witnessed by experienced ship's captains,sailors and submariners) your explanation is bioluminessence.

Where the same visualy confirmed objects have also been captured,tracked and plotted on sonar screens travelling huge speeds and performing completely unprecedented underwater manoevres , your answer is to then disregard bioluminessence and instead say whales.

And where any of the sworn eyewitness testimony does not fit snugly with this preconceived hypothesis you say they must be lying,delusional or mistaken.

I'd say thats shoehorning -read the opening paragraph again.

Ouch.. I'd have to agree with Karl here, you definitely were shoehorning.

[Resonance]

Actually it is a teardrop shape (subsonic) and varying degrees of reverse teardrop shapes (supersonic). Disc shapes can turn more easily.

The "drive system" merely has to be some kind of gravity well. But there are several alternatives.

Ahh, you're right. I spaced the tear drop..

Other than that, if you think about it, the 'normal' shape of the USO/UFO's seen by eyewitnesses is a 'disc' shape.

And, the disc shape still is an amazingly aerodynamic shape.... Think about how fast you can go, when in water.

The tear drop is not going to do as well as the disc, because the pressure is equal all around the disc, while in a tear drop, more pressure is applied to the front or rear, depending on which is the large end.

Disc, evenly distributes all weight, and all pressure applied when moving at supersonic speeds.

Including friction...

Of course, the highest part no both top and bottom of the disc, will always have a higher friction due to the pressure applied when the water is displaced by the front of the disc.

[makaya325]

Matt does have a better understanding about how Some organisms can colonize and appear to be 1 large bioluminescent object. It doesnt explain the flying out of the water part

[karl 12]

Matt does have a better understanding about how Some organisms can colonize and appear to be 1 large bioluminescent object.

..Yes he does and I appreciate his input but he's also wilfully ignoring the sonar evidence (where objects have been tracked performing unheard of speeds and manouverability) and the fact that it corellates with much of the eyewitness testimony (which he's assuming is spurious or mistaken).

[makaya325]

..Yes he does and I appreciate his input but he's also wilfully ignoring the sonar evidence (where objects have been tracked performing unheard of speeds and manouverability) and the fact that it corellates with much of the eyewitness testimony (which he's assuming is spurious or mistaken).

Not exactly. The people who CLAIM there are sonar recordings (Us) need to show matt evidence.

[Esoteric Toad]

Unknown high speed sonars could simply be temperature inversions or different water densities reacting to some unknow geologic events deep in the ocean. Who knows, it could possibly be nothing more than a whale passing gas! As soon as a USO leaves the water it enters the murky arena of UFO once again (subject to the same rules, second hand reports, blurry photographs etc etc)

This wave travels at well over 800 kilometres per hour (500 mph), but due to the enormous wavelength the wave oscillation at any given point takes 20 or 30 minutes to complete a cycle and has an amplitude of only about 1 metre (3.3 ft). This makes tsunamis difficult to detect over deep water. Their passage usually goes unnoticed by ships.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsunami

If a tsunami can move 500 mph and go undetected then why could it not be something similar? I think we all agree that a lot of the ocean is unknown...not necessarily a hidden race of super beings.