'Half' of British mosques now under hardline,

[karl 12]

A report from the well respected British broadsheet newspaper the Times stating that 'fifty' per cent of British mosques are now under hardline,fanatic deobandi control:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/f...icle2402973.ece

Almost half of Britain’s mosques are under the control of a hardline Islamic sect whose leading preacher loathes Western values and has called on Muslims to “shed blood” for Allah, an investigation by The Times has found.

Riyadh ul Haq, who supports armed jihad and preaches contempt for Jews, Christians and Hindus, is in line to become the spiritual leader of the Deobandi sect in Britain. The ultra-conservative movement, which gave birth to the Taleban in Afghanistan, now runs more than 600 of Britain’s 1,350 mosques, according to a police report seen by The Times.

Seventeen of Britain’s 26 Islamic seminaries are run by Deobandis and they produce 80 per cent of home-trained Muslim clerics. Many had their studies funded by local education authority grants. The sect, which has significant representation on the Muslim Council of Britain, is at its strongest in the towns and cities of the Midlands and northern England.

Figures supplied to The Times by the Lancashire Council of Mosques reveal that 59 of the 75 mosques in five towns – Blackburn, Bolton, Preston, Oldham and Burnley – are Deobandi-run.

A commentator on religious radicalism in Pakistan, where Deobandis wield significant political influence, told The Times that “blind ignorance” on the part of the Government in Britain had allowed the Deobandis to become the dominant voice of Islam in Britain’s mosques.

Khaled Ahmed said: “The UK has been ruined by the puritanism of the Deobandis. You’ve allowed the takeover of the mosques. You can’t run multiculturalism like that, because that’s a way of destroying yourself. In Britain, the Deobandi message has become even more extreme than it is in Pakistan. It’s mind-boggling.”

Also Channel Four's very revealing 'Undercover mosque' documentary:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=26...sque+dispatches

A Dispatches reporter attends mosques run by organisations whose public faces are presented as moderate and finds preachers condemning integration into British society, condemning democracy and praising the Taliban for killing British soldiers…

Dispatches has investigated a number of mosques run by high profile national organisations that claim to be dedicated to moderation and dialogue with other faiths. But an undercover reporter joined worshippers to find a message of religious bigotry and extremism being preached.

He captures chilling sermons in which Saudi-trained preachers proclaim the supremacy of Islam, preach hatred for non-Muslims and for Muslims who do not follow their extreme beliefs - and predict a coming jihad. "An army of Muslims will arise," announces one preacher. Another preacher said British Muslims must "dismantle" British democracy - they must "live like a state within a state" until they are "strong enough to take over."

The investigation reveals Saudi Arabian universities are recruiting young Western Muslims to train them in their extreme theology, then sending them back to the West to spread the word. And the Dispatches reporter discovers that British Muslims can ask for fatwas, religious rulings, direct from the top religious leader in Saudi Arabia, the Grand Mufti.

Saudi-trained preachers are also promoted in DVDs and books on sale at religious centres and sermons broadcast on websites. These publications and webcasts disseminate beliefs about women such as: "Allah has created the woman deficient, her intellect is incomplete", and girls: "By the age of 10 if she doesn’t wear hijab, we hit her," and there’s an extreme hostility towards homosexuals.

Edited February 5, 2009 by karl 12

[InnerSpace]

WOW...! With the knowledge we now have about the plasticity of the brain, this is scary as hell. How long is humanity going to continue to allow this. When do we say enough is enough?? Some religions create terrorist minds, and when you have a blank slate to work with ,ignorance and blind obedience, and the ability to train another human being to dehumanize themselves and others....you have a time bomb in the making. =/

Interesting OP Karl...thanks for posting. =)

[Jonny Wonny]

'Ignorance',

The reason religion thrives.

Like the world needs any more of it.

I'm starting to think that avian flu thing isn't such a bad idea, hopefully it will only take the fundies with it.

Edited February 5, 2009 by Jonny Wonny

[InnerSpace]

"I Would Kill in God's Name:"

Role of Sex, Weekly Church Attendance, Report of Religious Experience, and Limbic Lability"

M.A. Persinger, Perceptual And Motor Skills, 1997, 85, 128-130 link

Data collected during the last 15 years for the Personal Philosophy Inventory from 1.48 thousand university men (n = 629) and women (n = 853) were analyzed to discern the response characteristics of individuals who stated "yes" to Item 136 "If God told me to kill, I would do it in His name." The percentage (7%, range between 2% and 8% per year) of affirmative responses did not change significantly over time. The odds ratio for men: women for an affirmative response was 1.4:1. As predicted a four-way interaction for sex, weekly church attendance, history of a religious experience, and elevated complex partial epileptic-like signs was statistically significant. Of the men who reported a religious experience, attended church weekly, and displayed elevated complex partial epileptic like signs (5.7% of all males), 44% stated they would kill another person if God told them to do so.

The study is part of a larger research effort in the neurological bases of religious experience, including religious personalities, religious conversions, and now, extreme religious views.

It was done by administering a set of questionnaires to 1480 university students that asked about a wide range of religious beliefs, habits and behaviors. It also asked about how often the subjects had more common, 'altered state' experiences, like deja vu, the sense of a presence, electric-like sensations, and many others. Taken together, these latter experiences (complex partial epileptic signs) give a measure of a person's "Limbic Lability".

The statistical analysis involved taking each questionnaire that included a 'yes' response to an item that asked if they would be willing to kill for God.

All the questionnaires that included a 'yes' to this were examined to see what other items emerged in association with a willingness to kill in 'His' name.


Four factors emerged.

1) Having had a religious experience.

2) Weekly church attendance (religious orthodoxy).

3) Being Male.

4) Limbic lability (which will be explained).

The next step was to look at all the questionnaires that showed all four traits, creating a second group.

44% of this second group stated that they would kill another person if God told
them to.

The study was based on university students, and if generalizable, then one
out of 20 Canadian university students would be willing to kill another person if
they were to attribute the instruction to God.

More here

[Condescending]

And what does it mean to be told by god to make the killings?

This lady comes to mind.. she is estimated to have recruited ~80 women as suicide bombers and she told them Allah bid them to do it. For a person who wants to do Allahs will how likely is that "to be told by god to kill" ?

Article

[Repoman]

A report from the well respected British broadsheet newspaper the Times stating that 'fifty' per cent of British mosques are now under hardline,fanatic deobandi control:

Is this even news anymore? I think the number of PC apologists that actually believe islam is about moderation have just about dried up. I'll watch this thread and see if anyone expresses any surprise. Of course we will get the posts by the people that say "I am muslim and islam is about peace and those people do not represent islam blah blah blah", but I am curious to see if anyone is actually surprised by this.

[Manszilla]

Is this even news anymore? I think the number of PC apologists that actually believe islam is about moderation have just about dried up. I'll watch this thread and see if anyone expresses any surprise. Of course we will get the posts by the people that say "I am muslim and islam is about peace and those people do not represent islam blah blah blah", but I am curious to see if anyone is actually surprised by this.

Good point.

[karl 12]

Is this even news anymore? I think the number of PC apologists that actually believe islam is about moderation have just about dried up. I'll watch this thread and see if anyone expresses any surprise. Of course we will get the posts by the people that say "I am muslim and islam is about peace and those people do not represent islam blah blah blah", but I am curious to see if anyone is actually surprised by this.

I think you've summed it up quite well.

I'm sure there are decent,peace loving muslims who have moral integrity (and do not delude themselves that they somehow superior to other human beings) but they seem impotent when trying to stop the rise of cult Nazi-esque mentalities like the wahhabi and the deobandi taking over their affairs and religious buildings...especialy in the UK.

In the documentary we see imans preaching that its 'god's will' that islam will take over Britain and that anyone who dares opposes this would be labelled a 'bad muslim'.

Undercover Mosque should be viewed by as many people as possible.

Great sig by the way!

Edited February 5, 2009 by karl 12

[karl 12]

The study was based on university students, and if generalizable, then one

out of 20 Canadian university students would be willing to kill another person if

they were to attribute the instruction to God.[/font]

More here

Innerspace thanks for the reply ,thats a very interesting (and disturbing) study you've posted there.

Perhaps the results are testament to the high levels of conditioning and indoctrination these individuals receive - usualy as young children.

Perhaps we'd all be better off if there was no organised religion in society at all - the negative contributory factors to society as a whole far outweigh the postive ones (if there are any).

Cheers

[Repoman]

Perhaps we'd all be better off if there was no organised religion in society at all - the negative contributory factors to society as a whole far outweigh the postive ones (if there are any).

Nailed it! While the lack of large, organized religion won't by itself cause world peace, it is certainly a prerequisite.

[Manszilla]

Nailed it! While the lack of large, organized religion won't by itself cause world peace, it is certainly a prerequisite.

How about whole governments and political powers and regimes too.

[Repoman]

How about whole governments and political powers and regimes too.

I think the anarchy you are talking about could never lead to world peace.

[Beckys_Mom]

'Ignorance',

The reason religion thrives.

Like the world needs any more of it.

I'm starting to think that avian flu thing isn't such a bad idea, hopefully it will only take the fundies with it.

GEEEEEEEEEE now that was just below the belt..........DANG!!!!!!!! ...I may not agree with many christians but DANG IT BOY... I wouldnt lower myself to even wish that harm to come to either one

*sits in awe*

[Manszilla]

I think the anarchy you are talking about could never lead to world peace.

True, but neither is the absence of organized religion either agreeably

[InnerSpace]

Innerspace thanks for the reply ,thats a very interesting (and disturbing) study you've posted there.

Perhaps the results are testament to the high levels of conditioning and indoctrination these individuals receive - usualy as young children.

Perhaps we'd all be better off if there was no organized religion in society at all - the negative contributory factors to society as a whole far outweigh the postive ones (if there are any).

Cheers

YW Karl. =)

Nailed it! While the lack of large, organized religion won't by itself cause world peace, it is certainly a prerequisite.

Indeed, but a lot will have to change because organized religion has permeated the core of 'civilization (changed the system), and therefore, evolutionary wise...it is natural and healthy to have 'some' fear...but organized religion and countries that oppress the people, took fear to a whole new level (fear of ourselves and others)...and this is where we are now...on the brink of destruction. =/

I personally believe that no person(s) in power...religious, political or otherwise should be allowed to 'lead' a people until they've had a completed a full neurological/psychological profile. I'm willing to bet that people like Hitler, Stalin, etc., and religions that have a history of practicing genocide, blind obedience to a diety and/or leader, etc...probably have one thing in common...their leaders and 'some' followers are neurologically and psychologically predisposed to certain behavior that affect humanity in an unhealthy way. jmo, however the research seems to be pointing in that direction.

I think we are the ignorant ones (those who are aware of our fate) if we continue to allow this sort of behavior to continue on our planet. Major change is needed, but it won't be accomplished via war and oppression.

What was Einsteins definition of insanity...? =/

[Jonny Wonny]

Not harm would come to them,

they'd simply be removed from influence on this planet.

[karl 12]

True, but neither is the absence of organized religion either agreeably

Well I think the less people joining religious cults/sects and deluding themselves that they are somehow more special/superior to other human beings the better.

Perhaps humankind would tthen be able to concentrate on the wellbeing of our species as a whole instead of non provable superstitious opinion dividing it up into warring cults.

[Wootloops]

The thing I hate most about the problem of religion is that there is nothing I or anyone can do to reason with religious people, because they have faith. They believe without proper justification and they are impervious to reason, argument, or evidence. Religion is like a virus that once infected with, there is no cure.

The only way to stop its spread is to vaccinate everyone beforehand with anti-bodies of rational thinking so that they have the proper defenses to fight off the virus once they make contact with it.

In other words, faith, to believe without sufficient reason, must be viewed by society as rightly idiotic on all fronts. Beliefs formed through faith should not be respected by society in any way, but instead detested. I worry that Britain and the rest of Europe won't realize this until it is too late, and their women already second class citizens.

It's a very depressing thing that the human mind can be so easily illusioned.

[3rd rock resident alien]

Islam was designed to force submission, no complaining society, Men above women. King/queen/ Monarch System will gain from it. It works best in dictatorial regimes.

[momentarylapseofreason]

The same was/is happening in Germany. In fact, I noticed alot of things while there.

Let me first state that, yes, I am an Islamophobe -and any woman or anyone that has daughters -should be !!

But I am not an Muslimaphobe-because many are peaceful (but 20% extremists are a huge number per 1.5 bill)

I encourage everyone to examine the Quran, Hadiths for yourself, and reach your own conclusions. Don't believe everything you hear.

What is the true purpose of Islam-you don't even have to read between the lines. LOL !!

The Quran is basically a self-servingly (for Muhammad) edited plagiarism of others' scriptures/passages insinuating/proposing a cockamamie -both externally- internally) self-contradictory theory that God had abandoned the Jews as a chosen people,and that Jesus preached Islam, but failed because his followers/audience were Jews an Muhammad was sent by Allah to anoint the Arabs as the new chosen people, dipose the Jews, and reveal the incorruptable (and final) version of Islam to mankind in arabic, his new favorite language. You thought the bible was cruel ?? It makes the bible look like a Disney storybook !

So according to Muhammad Muslims are far superior to non-Muslims, and one should discriminate against them in many ways. A Muslim forum member, even said so on a recent post ! We are unclean Kiffar-Kuffar !

Now lets try to determine how Islam can/might serve humanity, human rights etc. in our futures- and furthermore lets examine how Islam benefited the world and its own countries. If Islam has brought so much to Muslims the why are the fleeing to the west , I have to ask ?

I'll tell you how Islam will bring peace. Once we're all mindless robots, praising Allah, there will be peace. And that is what Islam will bring. It will be Submission then Peace or R.I.P

Yes I fear and mistrust Islam. I have seen and read enough and hope no one here converts to it.

. Ex-Muslims know alot also-and tell the truth-if you want to know- ask them

Edited March 26, 2009 by momentarylapseofreason

[ambelamba]

I have an impression that 'moderate' Muslims don't oppose Extremist Muslims because extremists are basically their 'id'.

[momentarylapseofreason]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGvjxtnOo4U

[momentarylapseofreason]

I have an impression that 'moderate' Muslims don't oppose Extremist Muslims because extremists are basically their 'id'.

Watch this................scary stuff

http://www.real-islam.org/audio/

Edited March 26, 2009 by momentarylapseofreason

[karl 12]

Watch this................scary stuff

http://www.real-islam.org/audio/

MLOR -thanks for posting that interview,pretty illuminating (and highly disturbing) stuff - talk about cult logic.

Heres a new address for the Undercover Mosque documentary as it appears to have been moved..

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...dercover+mosque

..and an interesting link from Snopes:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/muslimprotest.asp

Cheers.

[momentarylapseofreason]

..and an interesting link from Snopes:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/muslimprotest.asp

Thanks ,for sharing the pics and videos of all those nice peaceful Muslims in Europe!

See, it really is all about peace , (when there are no more non-Muslims left)

A picture is worth 1000 words, and hidden videos tell even more

Edited May 11, 2009 by momentarylapseofreason