God says: "Worship me or go to Hell!"

[Max.L]

I am a sentient, intelligent primate, capable and determined to question anything that i don't understand. Arrogance lies not in questioning the world around us and the constructs of life, and existence, but in the narrow mined belief that there are ideas that should be followed without question.

Where there are ideas to be followed blindly , there is faith , which is emphasized upon many times in the bible.

Just because you don't believe does not mean others have to follow suit , and it also does not mean that you have the right to insult them either.

[Max.L]

You've been most helpful with your answers.

I ask you, do you think that the Bible has been tampered with by different religious/political powers throughout the ages?

Or do you believe that every single word inside of that book is true?

More specifically, the seemingly contradictatory statements. Jesus stating that people must kill a non believer infront of him, or the fact that homosexuality is wrong etc etc...all statements from a loving God.

Thanks

-Josh

I'd like to know where in the bible that Jesus states that people must kill a non-believer in front of him . Also , if homosexuality were normal , then there wouldn't be two seperate sexes . God created man and women .

And as a Christian , yes , I'd say that I believe that every single word inside is true and every prophecy in it made will come true as well .

And No , I do not think that the Bible has been tampered with by different religious/political powers throughout the ages.

[IamsSon]

well..god said he loves all of us

but he likes to kill us when we get too out of his control

so to me he's a hypocrit and very egotistical/ sadistic

good point;)

If you made a couple of nice benches, took your time shaping them just right, and then when you tried to sit on them, you found that one was really sturdy and comfortable and really worked well and the other one wobbled and pinched you and you constantly felt as if you were going to fall off what would you do? Would you continue to sit on it? Would you consider it to be just as good as the comfortable bench? Or would you scrap it before you got hurt?

God created us for a purpose, He gives us opportunities to choose to do that which He created us for, and if we decide we would rather not, as the CREATOR He has every right to scrap us.

[Guyver]

And with that, you annul God's laws.

Karlis

8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness," "You shall not covet," and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Romans 13:8

[Karlis]

8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness," "You shall not covet," and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Romans 13:8

Hi Guyver -- I agree with what you have posted *but* are you saying that the Laws of God as prescribed in "the ten commandments" are no longer in force?

Kind regards,

Karlis

[zandore]

I'd like to know where in the bible that Jesus states that people must kill a non-believer in front of him .

In the parable of the talents

Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Strange to be in a morality lesson.

Also reference Deuteronomy 13:6-10

[zandore]

Hi Guyver -- I agree with what you have posted *but* are you saying that the Laws of God as prescribed in "the ten commandments" are no longer in force?

Good question...

If the first covenant was perfect why a second?

[Karlis]

Good question...

If the first covenant was perfect why a second?

Now, that's a complex issue; and I think you know that, Zandore. Probably this needs a thread of its own, would you agree?

Karlis

[Guyver]

Hi Guyver -- I agree with what you have posted *but* are you saying that the Laws of God as prescribed in "the ten commandments" are no longer in force?

Kind regards,

Karlis

Yes and no. It's more a matter of justification. What was the purpose of the law? Did the keeping of the law justify a person? Are the ten commandments the whole law? These are questions that are clearly explained in the New Testament. It's a matter for those who wish to be right with God. If you don't even believe in God or you think that the bible is a bunch of phooey then what does it matter? I"m not saying you Karlis, I'm saying - a person.

Good question...

If the first covenant was perfect why a second?

The first covenant was a forerunner, a forshadowing of that which was to come....namely Christ. It's all part of the bigger picture. These issues are spiritually discerned. People don't like to hear it but it's just like that and that's the way it is. It's not like you can't be a part. This gift is open to all who would sincerely receive it.

1 Corinthians 2:13

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For "who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

[Sho_Sho]

More like He said “Here is a small sample of life, 60 or 70 years, if you would like more lets talk”

Oh I LOVE THAT!!!!

Very smart post!

[zandore]

The first covenant was a forerunner, a forshadowing of that which was to come....namely Christ. It's all part of the bigger picture. These issues are spiritually discerned. People don't like to hear it but it's just like that and that's the way it is. It's not like you can't be a part. This gift is open to all who would sincerely receive it.

But Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies per Judaism...which Jesus was a Rabbi of.

[Max.L]

In the parable of the talents

Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Strange to be in a morality lesson.

Also reference Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Yeah , queer for it to be in a morality lesson.

Anyway , as for Deuteronomy 13: 6-10 . Anyway , either way , they'd die , for turning to another god , they go to hell .

Edited February 13, 2009 by Max.L

[Sho_Sho]

I think "man" has done a terrible job of speaking for God, so bad in-fact people are turning against God. The bible was made by men, and I think some of the stories are true. I also have an intuition that man put most of the "rules" in the bible to keep people on a tight ruling leash. I think the little voice we all have telling us right from wrong is enough. We don’t need a book to tell us we are living wrong.

The “Christians" who go around judging and condemning other’s for their life choices will have to answer to God one day. I persoanlly feel They are the reason most people have turned from God in the 1st place.

I do believe in God, and an after-life. I really don’t like the overly judgmental way some Christians tend to be these days. But I also don’t think that’s a reason for a non-believer to insult me and tell me I am an idiot, or even worse… a crazy "Right Wing Christian Fundamentalist" for believing in God. REAL Christians are NOT like that.

I say to each their own, I do worry about my fellow man and their lack of belief, but I feel like at this point I will never be able to undo the damage done by thousands of years of Christians speaking for God, and telling others they will not go to heaven for being who they are, and being who God made them.

We will ALL find out in the end who was right and who was wrong. Myself, I would rather live my life the best possible way I can, develop my own relationship with what I think is God, and be wrong in the end and there be nothing, than just say screw it. “There IS no God, I’m not going to answer to no one”, and then when I die find out I was wrong, and there really is a God.

The only thing I am really sure about is I am a much more peaceful, caring and loving person for my relationship with God, and I don’t see how that can be a bad thing. And If I am wrong in the end so be it. I have peace and that’s all I really need in the end.

[Guyver]

I think "man" has done a terrible job of speaking for God, so bad in-fact people are turning against God. The bible was made by men, and I think some of the stories are true. I also have an intuition that man put most of the "rules" in the bible to keep people on a tight ruling leash. I think the little voice we all have telling us right from wrong is enough. We don’t need a book to tell us we are living wrong.

The “Christians" who go around judging and condemning other’s for their life choices will have to answer to God one day. I persoanlly feel They are the reason most people have turned from God in the 1st place.

The only thing I am really sure about is I am a much more peaceful, caring and loving person for my relationship with God, and I don’t see how that can be a bad thing. And If I am wrong in the end so be it. I have peace and that’s all I really need in the end.

You're right. People have done a terrible job in many cases. But, Jesus did a great job and he's the one we should look to. He's the teacher. As far as Christians go; think of it like this.....

It's like being on a football team. When you're part of the team, you listen to your coach. The best teams are the ones who can execute the plans of good coaches effectively. You're in the locker room, you make team meetings, you listen and absorb the information the coach wants you to have. Christians who are going around judging and condeming others are probably wrong, but is that what they are really doing? Is that your perception of what they're doing? If a Christian is being critical, unkind, judgemental, whatever - that's wrong. But, if they are trying to reach out to you in effort to help you attain spiritual enlightenment, health, peace and eternal life; and if they are concerned about your soul and seeking your highest good.....then they are just listening to their coach and trying to be good team players. Maybe their love is misinterpreted?

I'm a Christian, but I don't go stuffing my views down peoples faces (except for maybe here). I also don't think I'm better than anyone. I just think I believe, have received, and have been forgiven. Every day I realize my shortcomings and I know that in most ways I'm the same as anyone else. The only difference is that like the John Mayer song; I'm in repair. I'm not together but I'm in repair.

[zandore]

Yeah , queer for it to be in a morality lesson.

Advocating violence...

Anyway , either way , they'd die , for turning to another god , they go to hell .

Only for those that believe in a Hell/God...many do not.

[Guyver]

Advocating violence...

Only for those that believe in a Hell/God...many do not.

You think that not believing in it makes it go away? "There's no place like home....there's no place like home...."

[+Paranoid Android]

I haven't read any of the replies to this yet since I haven't been online for a week or two, but the first thought that popped to my head when I read "worship me or go to hell" was that the Bible says no such thing. Hell as understood by most anyone who uses such a phrase does not exist.

However, the actual content of the opening post doesn't really have anything to do with hell, but is rather asking about the idea of eternal worship in heaven, and why God would create us just for that purpose. This is a different answer to the thread title, which is quite misleading considering the question asked. To the question actually asked in the opening post, I would simply suggest that God created humanity to be his children. Like we have children, so God had children. Now for those that choose to follow God, we become heirs to God's eternal kingdom.

Thinking of it this way removes the sense of egoism that is present in the starkness of the opening post. The bare-bones element of the opening post appears to remove all element of other-person-centredness. It is not an uncommon view - after all, in any situation, the common human response is most likely, "what can I get out of this situation". So when we ask this question from God's point of view, we ask, "What do I (God) get out of this". But it's not about personal ego, but rather about the other person, as is taught by God - not "what can I get out of it", but rather "what can I do for you". Personally then, I view it like this - God loved us, created us, nurtured us, ultimately died for us. This was God's other-person-centredness, in his act to die for me to save my life. In return, I try to live an other-person-centred life in two ways: 1- by loving God in return and seeking to do his will, and 2- by helping others and living for others rather than for myself. Naturally I don't always succeed because the natural human condition is self-centred, not other-person-centred. But I do my best.

In short, as I see it, it's not a matter of simply being created to worship, but rather created to love and build relationships. It's a two-way street, not the self-seeking, self-serving view portrayed in the original post.

Hope that provides some insight for you

~ PA

[+Paranoid Android]

In the parable of the talents

Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Strange to be in a morality lesson.

Also reference Deuteronomy 13:6-10

This caught my eye. I haven't read through the thread, but the last few posts before I replied to the original post seemed to be referring to this. I just wanted to add that a parable is not necessarily a "morality lesson". Parables can sometimes be morality lessons, but more generally parables are simply used as analogies that portray a theological meaning. In the case of Luke 19, the parable is not a morality lesson of any sort. It is a commentary on those who use what is given to them. The unnamed ruler in this parable, who after giving them responsibilities then takes everything away from those who misuse it (or ignore it). There is no moral indication that this should be the way a person responds to such a situation as the ruler - the focus is on the one who is given the duty, and more to the point since the parable is meant to be understood for the follower of God, the context shows that what was given to the workers refers specifically to things within the life of a believer in God rather than a wholesale commentary on humanity.

Just a thought, Z

~ PA

[zandore]

You think that not believing in it makes it go away?

You think that your belief makes it real for everyone?

"There's no place like home....there's no place like home...."

Be sure to shut the door on your way out.

[zandore]

In the case of Luke 19, the parable is not a morality lesson of any sort. It is a commentary on those who use what is given to them.

"a commentary on those who use what is given to them"....per Christian belief...God gave humans life and it is in his power to take a sinners life correct.

(not a question)

Also there are other places in the Bible that appears Jesus is preaching violence so that parable is not to far out of context.

[Sho_Sho]

You're right. People have done a terrible job in many cases. But, Jesus did a great job and he's the one we should look to. He's the teacher. As far as Christians go; think of it like this.....

It's like being on a football team. When you're part of the team, you listen to your coach. The best teams are the ones who can execute the plans of good coaches effectively. You're in the locker room, you make team meetings, you listen and absorb the information the coach wants you to have. Christians who are going around judging and condeming others are probably wrong, but is that what they are really doing? Is that your perception of what they're doing? If a Christian is being critical, unkind, judgemental, whatever - that's wrong. But, if they are trying to reach out to you in effort to help you attain spiritual enlightenment, health, peace and eternal life; and if they are concerned about your soul and seeking your highest good.....then they are just listening to their coach and trying to be good team players. Maybe their love is misinterpreted?

I'm a Christian, but I don't go stuffing my views down peoples faces (except for maybe here). I also don't think I'm better than anyone. I just think I believe, have received, and have been forgiven. Every day I realize my shortcomings and I know that in most ways I'm the same as anyone else. The only difference is that like the John Mayer song; I'm in repair. I'm not together but I'm in repair.

I I agree with you to a point. There are a lot of Christians who try to reach others in a respectful way. But even me as a Christian, have felt the abrasiveness of others who are preachy, and arrogant, and overly judgmental. I live my life in the best way possible and have still felt the 'wrath” and I spiritually agree with them. To error and sin are human and some of my fellow Christian’s often forget that.

I can’t even imagine what others feel who are non Christian, and already have a misconceived notion of God, then they get some person coming up to them challenging their life style, and their beliefs or lack thereof in an abrasive judgmental...do this or you will burn forever way. It does the opposite in my opinion. Why would anyone want to be a part of something that comes off that way?

I’m very sad to say that I have seen more negativity than positive come from a lot of Christians . As a Christian it’s my job to help others to a path of God, but I am NOT going to DRAG anyone kicking and screaming. And I don’t think it’s that easy to UN-do some of the damage some of these evangelists have done.

And if you ask most non believers they will tell you, they feel judged and looked upon as a bad person, so they don’t like Christians. There has to be a better way to bridge this gap. Christians need to wake up and realize their actions and judgmental ways are a bigger part of the problem and not adding to the solution.

[Smithkakarot]

Hey, aren't those "Right Wing Christian Fundamentalists" only about 10-15% of the total Christian population, anyways?

[Repoman]

Hey, aren't those "Right Wing Christian Fundamentalists" only about 10-15% of the total Christian population, anyways?

Which would mean that 85-90% of Christians pick and choose which parts of the bible to believe in and are, therefore, hypocrites.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

You think that not believing in it makes it go away? "There's no place like home....there's no place like home...."

Um.... Didn't that work for Dorothy? What are you trying to say?

[Max.L]

well..god said he loves all of us

but he likes to kill us when we get too out of his control

so to me he's a hypocrit and very egotistical/ sadistic

good point;)

The government loves the people and tries to do their best for them , yet when murderers are found , they have to be hanged/shot.