Understanding Christ

[MysticOnion]

In my studies (can I even call them that?) I have been obsessively driven from being a child, towards mysticism in ways that I can't even get across to other people - like even if I want to get away from it I'm pulled back like its a magnet pulling me. In my personal opinion, I am not looking for anything, its just happening. The knowledge comes to me without me going to find it. Thats my perspective.

And so in a massive apology to all Christians who thought I was against their religion - I will explain, that when people within the religion try to make it look as if those outside of it, are somehow lower than they are, it doesn't come across very well. How do you expect people to react to that?

So as soon as I take a stance or a viewpoint, Karma kicks in and lo and behold I recieve knowledge of things that are the complete opposite of the viewpoint I thought I held.

I've recently come across and completely understood one of the most misunderstood things in the entire bible and in mysticism in general - misunderstood it is because when people read the bible passages it is in, it comes across as complete gobbledegook, or a drug induced vision, or a product of schizophrenia or well people simply don't get it. I am of course talking about the Merkabah.

I've experienced an epiphany, another one... I suppose. I know you aren't going to believe me, most people won't, but in my own personal opinion I have completely understood Merkabah and why Christianity is like it is, and everything in the bible that doesn't make any sense, even the contradictions.

So deeply sorry if I offended Christianity in my questioning of the faith. What you have there is something extremely precious and beautiful, don't waste it, don't demean it, and for heavens sake keep it sacred. I hope that more people understand what Christianity really is, and don't try to force it on people. As I said, I wasn't looking, it found me. Let it find who it finds, thats my advice.

[IamsSon]

And so in a massive apology to all Christians who thought I was against their religion - I will explain, that when people within the religion try to make it look as if those outside of it, are somehow lower than they are, it doesn't come across very well. How do you expect people to react to that?

Oriana, you are right there are many people, Christians and non-Christians who seem to only be able to make themselves feel better about who they are by looking down on any one who is different from them. Given how many people claim to be Christians it's easy to erroneously make this a Christian issue. And of course, any time someone tries to make you feel like you are less than they are, it's easy to get defensive, dismissive, or just plain insulted. Sometimes, people react through retaliation: "Huh!? You think you're better than me, well, let me show you how much better than you I am!" Which is really a silly response since one ends up doing the exact thing that caused us to feel slighted.

I've recently come across and completely understood one of the most misunderstood things in the entire bible and in mysticism in general - misunderstood it is because when people read the bible passages it is in, it comes across as complete gobbledegook, or a drug induced vision, or a product of schizophrenia or well people simply don't get it. I am of course talking about the Merkabah.

I've got to ask you the same question I would ask my pastor or any Bible teacher who claimed to have finally clearly understood something in the Bible which NO ONE else has ever gotten. How many versions of the Bible did you read this in? Did you read it in Hebrew (if it's OT) or Greek (if it's NT), or did you just read it in an English translation? Why do you think your view of this is the correct one? If it was a spiritual revelation how do you know you can trust this spirit? And finally which passage is it in particular? You say everyone else sees it as goobledegook, so I'm interested in reading it and studying it for myself.

I've experienced an epiphany, another one... I suppose. I know you aren't going to believe me, most people won't, but in my own personal opinion I have completely understood Merkabah and why Christianity is like it is, and everything in the bible that doesn't make any sense, even the contradictions.

So, going back to my response above, are you saying you have had some revelation regarding Ezekiel's vision of the chariot? Can you share what that is?

So deeply sorry if I offended Christianity in my questioning of the faith. What you have there is something extremely precious and beautiful, don't waste it, don't demean it, and for heavens sake keep it sacred. I hope that more people understand what Christianity really is, and don't try to force it on people. As I said, I wasn't looking, it found me. Let it find who it finds, thats my advice.

I think Christianity (or actually Christ, God the Son Himself) is more offended by those who use it to further their own goals, who use it to demean others, who use it to suppress others, who use it to justify their hateful actions. From reading the Gospels and from my own experience with the Holy Spirit, I don't think God is offended by questions, although He is offended by those who excuse their disobedience by saying they simply have questions, so I don't think many Christians, especially here in UM would have been offended by your questioning.

Edited February 20, 2009 by IamsSon

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

In my studies (can I even call them that?) I have been obsessively driven from being a child, towards mysticism in ways that I can't even get across to other people - like even if I want to get away from it I'm pulled back like its a magnet pulling me. In my personal opinion, I am not looking for anything, its just happening. The knowledge comes to me without me going to find it. Thats my perspective.

And so in a massive apology to all Christians who thought I was against their religion - I will explain, that when people within the religion try to make it look as if those outside of it, are somehow lower than they are, it doesn't come across very well. How do you expect people to react to that?

So as soon as I take a stance or a viewpoint, Karma kicks in and lo and behold I recieve knowledge of things that are the complete opposite of the viewpoint I thought I held.

I've recently come across and completely understood one of the most misunderstood things in the entire bible and in mysticism in general - misunderstood it is because when people read the bible passages it is in, it comes across as complete gobbledegook, or a drug induced vision, or a product of schizophrenia or well people simply don't get it. I am of course talking about the Merkabah.

I've experienced an epiphany, another one... I suppose. I know you aren't going to believe me, most people won't, but in my own personal opinion I have completely understood Merkabah and why Christianity is like it is, and everything in the bible that doesn't make any sense, even the contradictions.

So deeply sorry if I offended Christianity in my questioning of the faith. What you have there is something extremely precious and beautiful, don't waste it, don't demean it, and for heavens sake keep it sacred. I hope that more people understand what Christianity really is, and don't try to force it on people. As I said, I wasn't looking, it found me. Let it find who it finds, thats my advice.

Wow man!!! Good for you. As far as the validity of your experiences is concerned... Who am I or anyone else to seriously question them? If you experienced them, then they are real to you. That's all that matters. like you said though, keep perspective. People will question for many reasons, jealousy.. anger... curiosity. All you can do is explain what happened and leave it at that. Take it or leave it sorta deal! Hey, there are som people who have just...bam.. achieved enlightenment!!! It's beautiful and rare, but I don't think it is not impossible.

Right on! You Rock.

Peace Man!

Edited February 20, 2009 by Dr. Peter Venkman

[preacherman76]

In my studies (can I even call them that?) I have been obsessively driven from being a child, towards mysticism in ways that I can't even get across to other people - like even if I want to get away from it I'm pulled back like its a magnet pulling me. In my personal opinion, I am not looking for anything, its just happening. The knowledge comes to me without me going to find it. Thats my perspective.

And so in a massive apology to all Christians who thought I was against their religion - I will explain, that when people within the religion try to make it look as if those outside of it, are somehow lower than they are, it doesn't come across very well. How do you expect people to react to that?

So as soon as I take a stance or a viewpoint, Karma kicks in and lo and behold I recieve knowledge of things that are the complete opposite of the viewpoint I thought I held.

I've recently come across and completely understood one of the most misunderstood things in the entire bible and in mysticism in general - misunderstood it is because when people read the bible passages it is in, it comes across as complete gobbledegook, or a drug induced vision, or a product of schizophrenia or well people simply don't get it. I am of course talking about the Merkabah.

I've experienced an epiphany, another one... I suppose. I know you aren't going to believe me, most people won't, but in my own personal opinion I have completely understood Merkabah and why Christianity is like it is, and everything in the bible that doesn't make any sense, even the contradictions.

So deeply sorry if I offended Christianity in my questioning of the faith. What you have there is something extremely precious and beautiful, don't waste it, don't demean it, and for heavens sake keep it sacred. I hope that more people understand what Christianity really is, and don't try to force it on people. As I said, I wasn't looking, it found me. Let it find who it finds, thats my advice.

I respect your POV, but I gotta say, after reading this, I feel like I have hand my hand shaken, and had my face kicked in, all at the same time.

[Lt_Ripley]

I am of course talking about the Merkabah

a religion based on alien contact ? maybe. maybe most are.

[IamsSon]

a religion based on alien contact ? maybe. maybe most are.

Depending on the definition of "alien contact," Christianity most certainly is.

[MysticOnion]

I've got to ask you the same question I would ask my pastor or any Bible teacher who claimed to have finally clearly understood something in the Bible which NO ONE else has ever gotten. How many versions of the Bible did you read this in? Did you read it in Hebrew (if it's OT) or Greek (if it's NT), or did you just read it in an English translation? Why do you think your view of this is the correct one? If it was a spiritual revelation how do you know you can trust this spirit? And finally which passage is it in particular? You say everyone else sees it as goobledegook, so I'm interested in reading it and studying it for myself.

Well.. IamsSon, it really is something you have to look at yourself. I think other people have understood the Merkabah, but not because anyone was able to tell them what it was. I'm not going to try to prove anything to you or anybody else. But consider this, if I am talking to a person I talk to them only, I look into their eyes and speak to them, my words are directed specifically to them and no one else. Thus if you know anything about communication, you'll know that because I was not talking to anyone else but that person, other people will get the wrong message or idea simply because I didn't look them in the eye and tell them personally.

So, going back to my response above, are you saying you have had some revelation regarding Ezekiel's vision of the chariot? Can you share what that is?

Look at the Tarot Card - The Chariot. What do you see? http://www.starbridge.com.au/images/opt/bi...The-Chariot.jpg

I think Christianity (or actually Christ, God the Son Himself) is more offended by those who use it to further their own goals, who use it to demean others, who use it to suppress others, who use it to justify their hateful actions. From reading the Gospels and from my own experience with the Holy Spirit, I don't think God is offended by questions, although He is offended by those who excuse their disobedience by saying they simply have questions, so I don't think many Christians, especially here in UM would have been offended by your questioning.

I ask questions because I want to know what the Christian take is on some of the philosophies found in the bible and in churches. I know its sometimes seen as being offensive or whatever. Christ is not offended - if he is who I think he is, then certainly he's not.

[IamsSon]

Well.. IamsSon, it really is something you have to look at yourself. I think other people have understood the Merkabah, but not because anyone was able to tell them what it was. I'm not going to try to prove anything to you or anybody else. But consider this, if I am talking to a person I talk to them only, I look into their eyes and speak to them, my words are directed specifically to them and no one else. Thus if you know anything about communication, you'll know that because I was not talking to anyone else but that person, other people will get the wrong message or idea simply because I didn't look them in the eye and tell them personally.

So, if you're not going to explain anything what was the purpose of the post? To bait Christians as you sort of apologized?

Look at the Tarot Card - The Chariot. What do you see? http://www.starbridge.com.au/images/opt/bi...The-Chariot.jpg

I see whatever the artist drew on it, I'm not sure what you're getting at.

[MysticOnion]

So, if you're not going to explain anything what was the purpose of the post? To bait Christians as you sort of apologized?

I see whatever the artist drew on it, I'm not sure what you're getting at.

I wasn't baiting anyone. I just wanted to say something. I think this Merkabah is a great thing and I wish I COULD tell or explain - but as it is, I can understand it but can't tell anyone. I mean... if you could see what was on the Tarot card I might stand a chance of at least explaining something but well.. anyway... thanks for your interest.

[IamsSon]

I wasn't baiting anyone. I just wanted to say something. I think this Merkabah is a great thing and I wish I COULD tell or explain - but as it is, I can understand it but can't tell anyone. I mean... if you could see what was on the Tarot card I might stand a chance of at least explaining something but well.. anyway... thanks for your interest.

What specifically was I supposed to see on the card?

Your unwillingness to even try to explain anything is starting to make your post look like many of the ones you find in the Encounters Forum: "I had dinner with an alien and I can prove it because I ate last night!"

Give us something to go on.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

What specifically was I supposed to see on the card?

Your unwillingness to even try to explain anything is starting to make your post look like many of the ones you find in the Encounters Forum: "I had dinner with an alien and I can prove it because I ate last night!"

Give us something to go on.

Why is it so important to you?

[IamsSon]

Why is it so important to you?

It just seemed like it was going to be an interesting discussion. The title is Understanding Christ, I guess I was expecting something more than someone saying, "I understand Christ and you don't and I can't explain how I do, but I am now the only person who actually understands what a very strange passage in the Bible is actually about."

Guess I'm feeling like the victim of false advertising.

Edited February 20, 2009 by IamsSon

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

It just seemed like it was going to be an interesting discussion. The title is Understanding Christ, I guess I was expecting something more than someone saying, "I understand Christ and you don't and I can't explain how I do, but I am now the only person who actually understands what a very strange passage in the Bible is actually about."

Guess I'm feeling like the victim of false advertising.

She never sai that she's the only person who understands the passage. All she said was that she understands the passage no? She didn't say anyting about you or anybody else's knowledge of the passage. What are you getting at? You're obviously angry..but why?

[Leonardo]

She never sai that she's the only person who understands the passage. All she said was that she understands the passage no? She didn't say anyting about you or anybody else's knowledge of the passage. What are you getting at? You're obviously angry..but why?

Hey, Dr V.

I wanted to add that, after reading this thread, I feel the same curiosity that Iams does - perhaps, though, for different reasons. If something is able to be understood by a person, then it should be able to be understood by other people and also be able to be communicated. Yes?

I can understand if Oriana is reluctant for fear of offending anyone, or doesn't have the words to describe what she believes has been revealed, but an attempt would be appreciated.

[MysticOnion]

Hey, Dr V.

I wanted to add that, after reading this thread, I feel the same curiosity that Iams does - perhaps, though, for different reasons. If something is able to be understood by a person, then it should be able to be understood by other people and also be able to be communicated. Yes?

I can understand if Oriana is reluctant for fear of offending anyone, or doesn't have the words to describe what she believes has been revealed, but an attempt would be appreciated.

Well I am sort of trying to explain but I can't do it alone - I need people to look at something. The problem is, if I tell you I'm giving you an idea not explaining the truth of it all, truth comes from within and nobody can tell you what that is. If you can see anything in that Tarot Card, the chariot, you might be on to something.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

Hey, Dr V.

I wanted to add that, after reading this thread, I feel the same curiosity that Iams does - perhaps, though, for different reasons. If something is able to be understood by a person, then it should be able to be understood by other people and also be able to be communicated. Yes?

I can understand if Oriana is reluctant for fear of offending anyone, or doesn't have the words to describe what she believes has been revealed, but an attempt would be appreciated.

Questioning is fine, I just don't think she can give an answer that will satisfy anyone. I agree she should give it a go. It's a personal faith thing, which IamSon is all too familiar with.

[MysticOnion]

I'm finding codes all the way through the bible and in church ceremonies and I don't know what to do about it.

Marriage ceremony:-

Dearly Beloved (David means beloved) we are gathered here today in the presence of god (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shekhinah) to join together this man and this woman (male and female symbolised by star of David) In holy Matrimony...

The Shekinah is cubical and known as the "Glory of God" and his "Divine Presence", which is again, the vision of Ezekiel when he saw the Merkabah Chariot.

So you might as well say "Dear David we are gathered here in the chariot to join together this man and this woman...

Then of course the ceremony continues and they exchange (of all things to exchange...) rings. Why rings? Could it be because when the Merkabah rotates it creates rings of power?

Later the minister will say to the man "You may kiss the bride"

The Bride? Or does he mean the stone - not talking about the woman herself but what she symbolises, veiled and then unveiled and kissed. She symbolises the Shekinah, the female part of God that fell to earth as a cubical stone, and is veiled...

The woman symbolises the Goddess, and the male symbolises the male God.

[IamsSon]

She never sai that she's the only person who understands the passage. All she said was that she understands the passage no? She didn't say anyting about you or anybody else's knowledge of the passage. What are you getting at? You're obviously angry..but why?

I am not at all angry. I'm disappointed, but not angry.

Additionally:

I've recently come across and completely understood one of the most misunderstood things in the entire bible and in mysticism in general - misunderstood it is because when people read the bible passages it is in, it comes across as complete gobbledegook, or a drug induced vision, or a product of schizophrenia or well people simply don't get it. I am of course talking about the Merkabah.

She did say she understood something everyone else has misuderstood or dismissed.

That is a very big claim, I was simply asking for an actual explanation of this thing which she now understands that everyone else misunderstands.

[Lt_Ripley]

Depending on the definition of "alien contact," Christianity most certainly is.

aliens = the same thing people claim nowadays are abducting them ... flying in our skies. seen by police , pilots , military and the average joe. Of course a culture then would have thought they Gods or angels.

[Lt_Ripley]

She never sai that she's the only person who understands the passage. All she said was that she understands the passage no? She didn't say anyting about you or anybody else's knowledge of the passage. What are you getting at? You're obviously angry..but why?

maybe it's because she came to a conclusion different than what is his opinion ?? and feels he is right ??

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

maybe it's because she came to a conclusion different than what is his opinion ?? and feels he is right ??

I wonder if that sounds familiar to him?

[MysticOnion]

I am not at all angry. I'm disappointed, but not angry.

Additionally:

She did say she understood something everyone else has misuderstood or dismissed.

That is a very big claim, I was simply asking for an actual explanation of this thing which she now understands that everyone else misunderstands.

Your apparent anger is understandable. But please - I'm not trying to say I'm the only one in the whole wide world who knows something everyone else doesn't know. Instead I'm saying I have finally understood something very profound - don't forget, till I did understand it I was one of the masses who didn't. Its had a positive effect on my consciousness and on me in general - If I haven't already changed then I am going to as soon as I can. Its not about me being better than you but me being better than me.

[IamsSon]

aliens = the same thing people claim nowadays are abducting them ... flying in our skies. seen by police , pilots , military and the average joe. Of course a culture then would have thought they Gods or angels.

So, aliens being some sort of intelligence which is not native to our planet, right?

maybe it's because she came to a conclusion different than what is his opinion ?? and feels he is right ??

How could I since she has not told us what it is she concluded?

[MysticOnion]

So, aliens being some sort of intelligence which is not native to our planet, right?

How could I since she has not told us what it is she concluded?

HELLO!!! *waving hysterically*

[IamsSon]

Your apparent anger is understandable. But please - I'm not trying to say I'm the only one in the whole wide world who knows something everyone else doesn't know. Instead I'm saying I have finally understood something very profound - don't forget, till I did understand it I was one of the masses who didn't. Its had a positive effect on my consciousness and on me in general - If I haven't already changed then I am going to as soon as I can. Its not about me being better than you but me being better than me.

OK, what is it? If you convince everyone I must be angry and that is why I'm asking these questions then you can just dismiss my questions?

I'm not angry. Not even a little bit. Like I said, I'm disappointed because I expected you were going to explain something and instead you're basically saying, "Well, I can't explain it to you unless you see something in this Tarot card." What are we supposed to see? There are two sphinxes on the foreground, one is white (and may be female) and the other is black. There's a blond man with a crown holding a scepter, and is in an enclosure which I guess is the chariot, and there is a Mediterranean-looking town in the background. What are we supposed to be seeing? I'm not angry, I'm really curious and so far, disappointed.

Instead of waving hysterically how about you write some sort of explanation, please. Please.

Edited February 20, 2009 by IamsSon