'Superguns' of Elizabeth I's navy

[thefinalfrontier]

The English navy at around the time of the Armada was evolving revolutionary new tactics, according to new research.

Tests on cannon recovered from an Elizabethan warship suggest she carried powerful cast iron guns, of uniform size, firing standard ammunition.

"This marked the beginning of a kind of mechanisation of war," says naval historian Professor Eric Grove of Salford University.

"The ship is now a gun platform in a way that it wasn't before."

FIND OUT MORE

Timewatch: Elizabeth's Lost Guns

BBC Two, 2000 GMT, Sat 21 Feb

It is also available to UK viewers for seven days on the BBC iPlayer

Marine archaeologist Mensun Bound from Oxford University adds: "Elizabeth's navy created the first ever set of uniform cannons, capable of firing the same size shot in a deadly barrage.

"[Her] navy made a giant leap forward in the way men fought at sea, years ahead of England's enemies, and which was still being used to devastating effect by Nelson 200 years later."

Deadly artillery

Until now, it was thought Queen Elizabeth was using the same cannon technology as her father, Henry VIII. His flagship, the Mary Rose, was ultra-modern for its day.

However, it carried a bewildering variety of cannons - many designed for land warfare. They were all of different shapes and sizes, fired different shot at different rates with different killing power.

Elizabeth's navy created the first ever set of uniform cannons, capable of firing the same size shot in a deadly barrage

Mensun Bound, Marine archaeologist

It is known that during Elizabeth's reign, English sailors and gunners became greatly feared. For example, at the beginning of Henry VIII's reign, the English fleet was forced to run away from heavily armed French galleys.

By the time of Elizabeth, even Phillip of Spain was warning of the deadly English artillery. But no-one has ever been able to clearly show why this was.

The new research follows the discovery of the first wreck of an Elizabethan fighting ship off Alderney in the Channel Islands, thought to date from around 1592, just four years after the Spanish Armada.

The ship was a pinnace, a small ship carrying 12 guns, two of which have been recovered.

"There's a very good chance this ship fought against the Armada with its revolutionary guns, but there's no proof that all or even some of the others were armed similarly," says Saul David, historian and presenter of a BBC Timewatch documentary about the guns.

"Bear in mind that our ship is a pinnace and not a full-size warship. So it is probably going too far to say these guns defeated the Armada four years earlier.

Saul David and Mensun Bound examine a recovered cannon

"But they certainly represent a huge leap forward in military technology and may have contributed to the Spanish defeat."

Spain attempted to invade England in 1588 with 200 ships. The Spanish were unable to overcome the English navy, but there were also other reasons for the defeat.

The English used fire ships in a night attack, the Spanish lacked a good deep water harbour to load their troops and they were eventually scattered by a storm.

At the time, Spain was Europe's superpower and Philip II wanted Elizabeth's throne and to return England to Catholicism.

Replica cannon

The two cannon were recovered from the Alderney wreck last summer.

Replicas were recreated in a modern foundry, and tests carried out for the Timewatch documentary showed that the Elizabethans were throwing shot at almost the speed of sound.

The only way to learn about their power was to recreate a cannon

Elizabeth's "supergun", although relatively small, could hit a target a mile away. At a ship-to-ship fighting distance of about 100 yards, the ball would have sufficient punch to penetrate the oak planks of a galleon, travelling across the deck and out the other side.

Elizabeth's navy worked out that a few big guns were less effective than a lot of small guns, all the same, all firing at once.

The English navy stood up to the Spanish Armada. But, perhaps more significantly, as England's reputation for naval prowess was growing, Philip abandoned any further attempts at invasion.

"What we have shown is that the English navy and its gun founders were almost 50 years ahead of their time technologically," concludes Mensun Bound. This made Elizabeth I the mother of British naval dominance lasting three centuries.

Source with video;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7899831.stm

[Enigmatic Annasawzi]

*Mod Edit

Source with video;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7899831.stm

That's awesome.

I personally think the flamethrower used by Boetian Greeks, was a piece of military tech, that should never of been, but damn, you just have to admire it.

EA

4c. Quoting: Do not quote everything that has come beforehand in a thread only to add a short response, this not only clutters up the board but makes threads harder to follow and tends to be frowned upon by other visitors. Quote tags should only be used to remove any ambiguity over what you are responding to, only use them when necessary.

Edited February 27, 2009 by Superman
removing large quotation

[thefinalfrontier]

That's awesome.

I personally think the flamethrower used by Boetian Greeks, was a piece of military tech, that should never of been, but damn, you just have to admire it.

EA

Yes and looks like the lady of England was ready for any attack, That must have been one strong navy for that time period, Held off the spaniards too,

[AncientTheory]

absolutely did not hold any one back, lol if you would do your history the spanish owned the sea's and the english scared the spanish by sending a false influence. that they had taken down a armada of spanish with only 1 ship they did take down an armada of spanish but for one reason they had 20 ships and a good thing was the english had the same guns as the spanish but there ships where faster much faster by almost 2x faster thats the only advantage the english had but about 2 close range cannon shots could take down the english ships in that sense every one was even the english had no advantage so to speak of accept fast ships and they tricked the spanish into thinking the english had super ships which was not hard. they may have had fancy guns but could they have done any better then what the spanish could have done + they couldn't have put those suckers on every boat they had probably only the important ones!? i doubt it

i do like one very intelligent weapon design back in the bible age. the chinese rocket packs! were walls planted on ships with rockets sitting in holes on the wall fixed in place one fire wick and hundreds maybe thousands of rocket explosion arrows would have flown toward an enemy ship! thats a tide turner!

Edited February 25, 2009 by AncientTheory

[Cyaneyed]

absolutely did not hold any one back, lol if you would do your history the spanish owned the sea's and the english scared the spanish by sending a false influence. that they had taken down a armada of spanish with only 1 ship they did take down an armada of spanish but for one reason they had 20 ships and a good thing was the english had the same guns as the spanish but there ships where faster much faster by almost 2x faster thats the only advantage the english had but about 2 close range cannon shots could take down the english ships in that sense every one was even the english had no advantage so to speak of accept fast ships and they tricked the spanish into thinking the english had super ships which was not hard. they may have had fancy guns but could they have done any better then what the spanish could have done + they couldn't have put those suckers on every boat they had probably only the important ones!? i doubt it

Is not intelligence the greatest weapon in war? To quote a wonderful film "Learn to use this (taps head) before we learn to use this (takes away sword)". If 'owning the seas' means being intimidated, out maneouvered, outwitted, outgunned and beaten, then your logic stands, if not, I don't quite follow you...

[hetrodoxly]

*Mod Edit*

Source with video;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7899831.stm

I watched the program, and very good it was to.

4c. Quoting: Do not quote everything that has come beforehand in a thread only to add a short response, this not only clutters up the board but makes threads harder to follow and tends to be frowned upon by other visitors. Quote tags should only be used to remove any ambiguity over what you are responding to, only use them when necessary.

Edited February 27, 2009 by Superman

[hetrodoxly]

absolutely did not hold any one back, lol if you would do your history the spanish owned the sea's and the english scared the spanish by sending a false influence. that they had taken down a armada of spanish with only 1 ship they did take down an armada of spanish but for one reason they had 20 ships and a good thing was the english had the same guns as the spanish but there ships where faster much faster by almost 2x faster thats the only advantage the english had but about 2 close range cannon shots could take down the english ships in that sense every one was even the english had no advantage so to speak of accept fast ships and they tricked the spanish into thinking the english had super ships which was not hard. they may have had fancy guns but could they have done any better then what the spanish could have done + they couldn't have put those suckers on every boat they had probably only the important ones!? i doubt it

i do like one very intelligent weapon design back in the bible age. the chinese rocket packs! were walls planted on ships with rockets sitting in holes on the wall fixed in place one fire wick and hundreds maybe thousands of rocket explosion arrows would have flown toward an enemy ship! thats a tide turner!

I'm also not sure what your saying? yes England beat the Spanish, the OP is stating the new gun technology started England's 300 year dominance of the high seas.