The Lost Aztec Treasure

[Your Favorite Ghostwriter]

In many of the legends concerning the Superstition Mountains in Arizona, an Apache curse protects the sacred burial ground and the treasures of the Indians, including the famous Lost Dutchman Gold Mine. According to the author R.G. Babcock, this fabulous treasure was nothing else but the Lost Aztec Treasure of Montezuma. The Legend of the Lost Dutchman goes way back to the 1840's, when a Mexican family developed some gold mines in the Superstition Mountains and was ambushed by Apaches. Two Peralta's escaped, they buried their mines with rocks and since then, numerous treasure maps have surfaced... but all the treasure hunters became the victims of all sort of troubles, caused by the Curse of the Superstitions. In the 1870's, the "Dutchman" Jacob Waltz, who was in fact a German, would have located the mine. He gave the place a name, but he and his partners again had to deal with the Curse of the Superstitions...

Read the full story here:

The Lost Dutchman Gold Mine

The Lost Aztec Treasure

Treasure of the Cursed Superstition Mountains

The Lost Mine of Juan Mondragon

[jaylemurph]

So, hey, are you actually here to discuss this stuff or are you just spamming for your own website, hibpages.com?

--Jaylemurph

[Your Favorite Ghostwriter]

I'm writing a book and collecting information, actually.

[+DieChecker]

I'd read a lot about the Lost Dutchman mine and I don't recall hearing before that it was lost Aztec Treasure. Isn't that a long way for the Aztecs to go to hide treasure, especially when they had thick jungles that were much closer? There may be some Aztec treasures still hidden in the ground, but it is my opinion that all the Aztec gold that was on the surface was taken back to Spain, or lost at sea.

[Your Favorite Ghostwriter]

According to the author R.G. Babcock there is an explanation for all these tales about a curse and lost gold in Arizona and New-Mexico. Somewhere in the 19th century two men from the Midwest and an old Indian Chief were in an Arizona cave filled with treasure... A hundred years later R.G. Babcock received a letter, describing a first-hand account of the lost gold of the Aztec Empire... R.G. Babcock wrote a book about it: Chicomoztoc, a search for the Aztec Treasure and the missing history of the Aztec Empire.

"No one denies that the Aztec Indians had gold," Babcock says. "Chicomoztoc (the seven caves) is the legendary place from which the Aztec Indians believe they originally came. (...) It is generally believed that the Aztec were several tribes molded into one and living in Mexico. It is conceivable, according to what we know of Aztec legend, that each of the sibling tribes had been conceived in the womb of Mother Earth (a cave) and when each tribe was sufficiently developed and had boys, girls, moms, dads, warriors, priests, and a chief, the cave was opened and they were thrust into the world somewhere north of Mexico."

The Aztecs ended up in Mexico and were crushed by Cortez, but what if the seven caves were in reality seven cities? Everywhere, from western Texas to the Sierras of California, and from Chihuahua to Colorado, there are stories of treasure. "One place is a mecca to minds enamored with this mystery. Thousands of treasure hunters have been mesmerized by the stories coming out of there and hundreds of them have mysteriously disappeared in the mountains there in the last century alone. A hundred more have gone there only to be found murdered or murdered and mutilated, and to this day no one has been able to solve this strange mystery. I'll state my case here- I say the Aztec have a ceremonial cave there and it is still stuffed with the treasure that Cortez had-and lost-in Tenochtitlan (Mexico City)."

Edited February 22, 2009 by Your Favorite Ghostwriter

[Wreck7]

If you do some research on the history of Arizona you will find that there was a huge earthquake in the late 1800's. Supposedly the Superstition mountains were clouded in dust for weeks due to all of the rock slides. If you go there you can see evidence. My guess is if there ever was a mine it has long since been buried under tons of debris. I have heard of gold being found there but the geology doesn't support it. Besides,mining there is illegal.

There is another treasure buried there by a guy I knew. He did it to protest the taxes the government put on the value of his paintings. They are worth quite a bit, His name was Ted DeGrazia.

[+DieChecker]

According to the author R.G. Babcock there is an explanation for all these tales about a curse and lost gold in Arizona and New-Mexico. Somewhere in the 19th century two men from the Midwest and an old Indian Chief were in an Arizona cave filled with treasure... A hundred years later R.G. Babcock received a letter, describing a first-hand account of the lost gold of the Aztec Empire... R.G. Babcock wrote a book about it: Chicomoztoc, a search for the Aztec Treasure and the missing history of the Aztec Empire.

"No one denies that the Aztec Indians had gold," Babcock says. "Chicomoztoc (the seven caves) is the legendary place from which the Aztec Indians believe they originally came. (...) It is generally believed that the Aztec were several tribes molded into one and living in Mexico. It is conceivable, according to what we know of Aztec legend, that each of the sibling tribes had been conceived in the womb of Mother Earth (a cave) and when each tribe was sufficiently developed and had boys, girls, moms, dads, warriors, priests, and a chief, the cave was opened and they were thrust into the world somewhere north of Mexico."

The Aztecs ended up in Mexico and were crushed by Cortez, but what if the seven caves were in reality seven cities? Everywhere, from western Texas to the Sierras of California, and from Chihuahua to Colorado, there are stories of treasure. "One place is a mecca to minds enamored with this mystery. Thousands of treasure hunters have been mesmerized by the stories coming out of there and hundreds of them have mysteriously disappeared in the mountains there in the last century alone. A hundred more have gone there only to be found murdered or murdered and mutilated, and to this day no one has been able to solve this strange mystery. I'll state my case here- I say the Aztec have a ceremonial cave there and it is still stuffed with the treasure that Cortez had-and lost-in Tenochtitlan (Mexico City)."

Yes. I read that in a couple places on the net. But a story of two guys and a Chief in a cave based only on a anonymus letter, or even if the letter was from George Bush, does not create undenighable evidence. It is flimsy evidence at best.

The last I knew Mexico City was about a thousand miles from this part of Arizona. In a world that did not yet have horses, or carts that would be a heck of a long way to pack your treasures.

I'm not denighing the story, just being somewhat skeptical.

Is this book in Google Books or available as an e-book?

[legionromanes]

According to the author R.G. Babcock

to be fair to the mentioned "Author" he is a complete nutter with a lost treasure fetish and a publishing agent !

Chicomoztoc: A search for the Aztec Treasure and the missing history of the Aztec Empire

A hundred years ago two men from the midwest and an old Indian Chief were in an Arizona cave filled with treasure. Twenty years ago R.G. Babcock was given a hundred-year-old letter describing a first-hand account of the treasure. This is the story of one man’s hunt for that historic treasure and what he discovered about the true history of the Aztec Empire. Are the cave and the treasure still there? Can they be found today?

Are the cave and the treasure still there? Can they be found today?

I'm guessing only if you are prepared to pay £7.51 to read it all

otherwise

No

thread closed eh

[Your Favorite Ghostwriter]

I'm not denighing the story, just being somewhat skeptical.

Is this book in Google Books or available as an e-book?

There is a review of his book here: http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Lost-Aztec-Treasure

And you can purchase his book at Lulu: http://www.lulu.com/content/242518

You're right about travelling all that way... but the Spaniards did it too!

[PersonFromPorlock]

It's been pointed out in similar threads, but when a bunch of heavily armed strangers show up demanding treasure, the wise man says "Right, it's two days west of here." Thus are treasure legends born.

[Your Favorite Ghostwriter]

to be fair to the mentioned "Author" he is a complete nutter with a lost treasure fetish and a publishing agent !

I'm guessing only if you are prepared to pay £7.51 to read it all

otherwise

No

thread closed eh

Maybe even a nutter can make some sense sometimes?

* A skirt made of macaw feathers found in 1954 in a Utah cave confirms that there were "at least" trade ties with Mexico. Archaeologist Lyndon L. Hargrave examined the skirt and concluded that it was probably made in the 12th century by a Mexican Indian. It could have arrived in Utah by one of several trade routes. National Geographic had a picture of the skirt with its red and blue feathers still having their vivid colors. The macaw feathers probably came from Yucatan, several hundred miles south of the Aztec capital Tenochtitlan, now Mexico City. Babcock states they were "found in Utah several hundred miles farther north of where I believe the Aztec treasure now lies. If the treasure now lies in a cave in Arizona then it appears they just followed known trade routes-at least in part-while travelling north back to Chicomoztoc."

* Babcock: "The Taos, New Mexico, area could be the home of one of the seven Aztec caves, and Coronado's expedition to the area is also evidence of this possibility. This would have been the area where the Aztec migrants came from, as the deserts ate up the southwest, so quite naturally would have been the area most often talked about down in Mexico."

* In 1538, barely 20 years after the conquest of the Aztec, Cabeza de Vaca heard the story of the Seven Cities of Cibola (= The Land of Buffalo) from some native people along the way. The cities - rich in gold, silver and precious stones - had to be found somewhere in the north. But the "cities" could also be "caves".

"For all the information that can be had on this subject, that is Indians, mystery treasure and lost gold mines in the Superstition Mountains," Babcock suggests reading A Motif Index for the lost mines and treasures applied to redaction of Arizona legends, and to lost mine and treasure legends exterior to Arizona, by Dr. Byrd Howell Granger. "She has included 339 legends, all of them supposedly from the Arizona area."

At about the same time, captain Cristabol de Gusman, a servant of Cortez, had a confrontation with the Yaqui Indians near the Yaqui River. On entering the battlefield the leader was easily recognized as an elderly man wearing a black robe studded with pearls. He carried a gold and mahogany "staff of office" with an elaborate carved handle. There were also some priests in black robes. Babcock points out the correlation between the Yaqui and Aztec clothing and artifacts: "This seems to be evidence of the Aztec passing through this area and probably trading some artifacts for food."

In the spring of 1984, Treasure Found came out with a story of Aztec vidence in the Anza-Borrego Desert (Imperial Valley of California): "The head of a statuette was found some years ago that appeared to be the head of an Aztec rain-god known as Tlaloc. Legends gleaned from local Indians pointed to several hundred Aztec warriors carrying Montezuma's treasure into the north end of the local (California) Superstition Mountains." After packing the treasure deep into the cave the warriors were slain "so their spirits would protect it".

Maybe there is some truth in the many legends about lost gold mines in Arizona, New Mexico, California? Maybe, if we follow the tracks of the old myths like Schliemann did...? An interesting legend for instance, with some geographic details, is that of The Lost Mine of Juan Mondragón.

Edited February 24, 2009 by Your Favorite Ghostwriter

[legionromanes]

Maybe even a nutter can make some sense sometimes?

Maybe there is some truth in the many legends about lost gold mines in Arizona, New Mexico, California? Maybe, if we follow the tracks of the old myths like Schliemann did...? An interesting legend for instance, with some geographic details, is that of The Lost Mine of Juan Mondragón.

well as they are all excerpts from Babcocks book and apparently unsupported anywhere else I would suggest that you arent' following legends, youre just following Babcock

take his link of Macaw feathers with an aztec treasure, it is well known and understood by archaeologiosts that Macaw feathers were traded from Mexico not just to Utah but throughout the American southwest. Did he neglect to mention that ?

and that the centre of Macaw breeding was in NW Chichuaua and was extremely widespread. Theres certainly no indication like Babcock claims that this indicates fleeing Aztecs running away from the spanish with lots of treasure dropped some feathers in a cave in Utah to mark their progress. This claim of his is on a par with most episodes of scooby doo and has about as much to do with reality

http://www.jstor.org/pss/281969

next you posted his claims for seven Aztec caves and Coronado. Coronado wasn't looking for seven Aztec caves but seven Aztec cities of Gold. So Babcock distorted again there. further the legend of the seven Aztec caves could be compared with the garden of eden or with Atum rising from a primordial sea. It is a cosmological myth and as genetics has proven that the Aztecs came over the bearing straights with everyone else it has no foundation in reality either

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_mythology#History

I'll leave the rest of the garbage for you to research, checking those two out took me about 5 minutes

as for Schliemann, he didn't find anything by following old myths at all, thats just what he claimed later, in his own book. Troy was actually discovered by Frank Calvert from clues by Charles Maclaren who was the guy who actually followed the myths. The only mistake Calvert made was by telling someone like Schliemann who was an inveterate gold digger and adventurer who then moved in and stole all the publicity (along with half the relics)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Calvert

so if you are comparing Babcock with Schliemann then I would be extremely worried

finally, think about this

if you had lots of decent clues as to the location of an Aztec treasure which you believed were solidly supported, whats the last thing you would do with them ?

you wouldn't write them down in a pseudo history book would you

I made an error earlier though and I'd like to retract it

I stated that Babcock was "a nutter with a lost treasure fetish and a publishing agent"

I know now that is quite false

he doesn't have a publishing agent

Edited February 24, 2009 by legionromanes

[Cleomenes]

Why would the Aztecs carry their treasure a thousand miles north into strange territory belonging to other tribes? Arizona was far away from any of the lands ruled by the Aztecs, and any treasure hidden there would have been susceptible to theft by the people living in the region. Central Mexico has plenty of mountains, why would the Aztecs have to go all the way to Arizona to find mountains to bury their treasure? There is just not a very good logical motive for the Aztecs to bring their treasure all the way to Arizona, if it ever existed in the first place.

[Your Favorite Ghostwriter]

well as they are all excerpts from Babcocks book and apparently unsupported anywhere else I would suggest that you arent' following legends, youre just following Babcock

Babcock has nothing to do with the Lost Dutchman legends, or with the stories regarding the Lost Mine of Juan Mondragón. There are also lots of legends surrounding the Lost Adams Diggings (J. Frank Dobie wrote about it in Apache Gold & Yaqui Silver,1939, and more recently Jack Purcell in Myth, Mystery and Madness, 2003). And there are the Victorio Peak Stories.

But I must admit, you have a point with Babcock...

And I must confess, I'm first of all a writer who loves the Italian saying "Se non è vero, è ben trovato." - "If it's not true, it's a good story."