Alien abduction

[fireinthesky]

To Ra the Sun God, your picture of an egyptian eagle is giving me great incentive to switch it's belief system, I've never seen a cooler looking god

[Ra_Sun-God]

Explanation for abductions:

1. mental illnes- I would suspect this is the largest portion.

2. Liars- just like attention don't care if it is good or bad.

3. SP

4. Drug use

You forgot No. 5: They were kidnapped by real aliens (Greys?)

How do you explain claimed abductees who suffer of trauma? Or who seems to suffer of trauma?

Edited March 1, 2009 by Ra_Sun-God

[Ra_Sun-God]

To Ra the Sun God, your picture of an egyptian eagle is giving me great incentive to switch it's belief system, I've never seen a cooler looking god

Thank you so much fireinthesky I've got little help from Isis, she sent me some different picitures of Ra, and then I choosed this one. I can't thank Isis enough.

The head of Ra symbolize the Falcon. About two years ago I used "Falcon" as my call sign in the PL2 game "Medal of Honor - European Assault" were I received gold medals all the way. But I did'nt forseen that I should use the name Ra later, what a coincident.

Edited March 1, 2009 by Ra_Sun-God

[Lilly]

...I honestly don't know why you hold Dr Carl Sagan in high regard. Perhaps if you could name one qualification he has that demonstrates his skills to deal with the abduction phenomenon. ...

Have you read "A Demon Haunted World"? Wiki link here You certainly can choose to disagree with Dr. Sagan, but "junk science" is an inappropriate label.

As to the implants, have any of these 'devices' been definitively identified as being manufactured and of alien origin? This is going to be what it takes to convince those from a scientific background.

[fireinthesky]

Have you read "A Demon Haunted World"? Wiki link here You certainly can choose to disagree with Dr. Sagan, but "junk science" is an inappropriate label.

As to the implants, have any of these 'devices' been definitively identified as being manufactured and of alien origin? This is going to be what it takes to convince those from a scientific background.

People don't like the term alien origin, the closest they would term it, failing aliens landing on the lawn & admitting to it, is unknown origin. Talk to team at Saber Enterprises, that Derrel Sims heads, he has all the answers to your questions.

[bee]

Yah, it's indeed remarkable they walk through walls. The story from this site http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2306tufos.html also indicate they walk through walls...

And then there are the theory about they dematerialize and show up elsewere. Lot's of ships were destroyed by German submarines during World War II, and then the Americans seems to need to do something like The Philadelphia Experiment

</a>

Cheers for that.

I'm thinking that if all this started in the 1940s then it is mind-boggling where it

could all be now.....

This is why I'm thinking that many (and even maybe all?? don't know...)....alien abductions

could have been people being used to perfect teleportation methods. Human and not alien

interference....although some ET involvement could have happened. Because this subject

is undoubtedly as Top-Secret as it gets....it's obviously going to be hard to get to the bottom

of it.....

from this site...

http://www.projectcamelot.org/interviews.html

from this video...

from the transcript....

http://www.projectcamelot.org/david_wilcoc...transcript.html

So Montauk is basically a reverse engineering of a ship, of a seat from a UFO, so that human beings are trained to run the chair with their mind, open up a vortex, send people through. Some people might make it, some people might not. And then eventually trying to basically stabilize this so that it’s a usable technology. That’s the basis of Montauk.

It sounds very far out. But you have to understand, like the Philadelphia Experiment, if that’s true that’s probably only the first time that that was done, and it was perfected over the course of years afterwards

Bill: It’s called a jumproom. And I’ll tell you what a jumproom is, and maybe you can get it as I’m describing it - just as Henry started to describe it, and I got it immediately. He said it’s a... and I said. "You mean like an elevator." And he said, "That’s exactly what it's like." He said there’s a room like an elevator. You go in the doors. The doors close behind you. Then the doors open [snaps fingers]... and you're there.

[snip]

You feel a bit weird. He said that you go... you’re in Europe, you’re in England, or the UK, or underground somewhere. He said there are a few of these things in different places. Jumprooms. You go into the jumproom [snaps fingers] ...next thing you know, you’re on Mars.

[Lilly]

People don't like the term alien origin, the closest they would term it, failing aliens landing on the lawn & admitting to it, is unknown origin. Talk to team at Saber Enterprises, that Derrel Sims heads, he has all the answers to your questions.

I googled Mr. Sims and Saber Enterprises. I suspect that this gentleman might just be a tad predisposed to his own personal beliefs regarding the subject. See The Black Vault listing on Mr. Sims.

[TSS]

You be better served with actually reading a book before commenting on it.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Abducted-True-Stor...n/dp/0747259135

The only thing your response offers unfortunately is bare boned devil's advocacy. I own the book you speak of, I don't understand why you bring it up here at all, it doesn't strengthen your argument, if you had a coherent argument.

Forgotten what you've written already, let me remind you:

"None of those books ever made the claim that they did prove anything, all of them made the claim for the reader to be the judge, they presented the evidence & the case studies."

My reply was in direct response to this.

Possible, yes. Evidence pointing in that direction, No.

What do you base your conclusion that there is no evidence, are you blind, ignorant, stupid or in denial?

Childish insults do your arguments the power of good.

A mish mash of cases lumped together in attempt to paint a picture and desired outcome favourable to the person who believes in alien abduction. Nothing more then that.

I'd love to see you tell that to a judge in a murder trial when your barrister tries to get the evidence thrown out on those grounds. That's Golden, I suppose you think I just made all those pieces of evidence up? Who needs facts when we have a mish mash of cases lumped together in attempt to paint a picture and desired outcome favourable to the person who believes in alien abductions. Nothing more then that. I hope you don't mind if I forward that to some friends, I know Derrel would get a laugh out of it. It's going in my hall of fame for dumb things skeptics have said to me.

By all means do that, it's no dumber then any of the arguments you've presented to-date.

Thank you for the laugh it cheered me up

No thank you. Your desperate attempt to make people believe there is credible evidence available pertaining to the validity of alien abductions is very amusing.

[fireinthesky]

Forgotten what you've written already, let me remind you:

"None of those books ever made the claim that they did prove anything, all of them made the claim for the reader to be the judge, they presented the evidence & the case studies."

My reply was in direct response to this.

Childish insults do your arguments the power of good.

By all means do that, it's no dumber then any of the arguments you've presented to-date.

No thank you. Your desperate attempt to make people believe there is credible evidence available pertaining to the validity of alien abductions is very amusing.

Feel better yet?

[TSS]

Feel better yet?

Top of the world.

You?

[fireinthesky]

Top of the world.

You?

I've got chocolate how could anything be wrong

[TSS]

I've got chocolate how could anything be wrong

Cool.

[Lilly]

Top of the world.

You?

Well, I feel pretty good too.

I also have a feeling we're just going to have to 'agree to disagree' about this one.

Personally, only 'if and when' someone one can provide an indisputable example of alien technology will I accept alien abduction as taking place in objective reality. Now, I'm not saying alien abduction is impossible, just not definitively supported at this point in time.

*Wait*....you have chocolate!!! Ok, now you've gotta share.

[fireinthesky]

Well, I feel pretty good too.

I also have a feeling we're just going to have to 'agree to disagree' about this one.

Personally, only 'if and when' someone one can provide an indisputable example of alien technology will I accept alien abduction as taking place in objective reality. Now, I'm not saying alien abduction is impossible, just not definitively supported at this point in time.

*Wait*....you have chocolate!!! Ok, now you've gotta share.

Definitely, nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree, especially on issues like this. Chocolate all around.

[TSS]

Well, I feel pretty good too.

I also have a feeling we're just going to have to 'agree to disagree' about this one.

Personally, only 'if and when' someone one can provide an indisputable example of alien technology will I accept alien abduction as taking place in objective reality. Now, I'm not saying alien abduction is impossible, just not definitively supported at this point in time.

*Wait*....you have chocolate!!! Ok, now you've gotta share.

*bolding mine

That's more or less where I stand too.

You'll have to nudge fireinthesky for the chocolate, I can offer coffee or tea though!

[TSS]

Definitely, nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree, especially on issues like this. Chocolate all around.

Apologees if I came over as abrupt, that's how I read your posts to me though. We'll agree to disagree.

[bee]

quote from me.....#131

I'm thinking that if all this started in the 1940s then it is mind-boggling where it

could all be now.....

This is why I'm thinking that many (and even maybe all?? don't know...)....alien abductions

could have been people being used to perfect teleportation methods. Human and not alien

interference....although some ET involvement could have happened. Because this subject

is undoubtedly as Top-Secret as it gets....it's obviously going to be hard to get to the bottom

of it.....

from this site...

http://www.projectcamelot.org/interviews.html

from this video...

from the transcript....

http://www.projectcamelot.org/david_wilcoc...transcript.html

Another couple of quotes from the transcript.......(see my #131 on previous page for other quotes..)

Bill: Yeah. There’s... it’s such a huge story, that ever since spending a few days with Henry very recently, I went back to the e-mails I was getting on my computer, and reading the stuff you get on the forums, and on blogs, and I was thinking: You know what, these guys don’t... they really don’t know what’s happening.

The powers that be really don’t have much to worry about because most people really, really don’t know. And there’s not one colony on Mars, there’s several.

Bill: Oh, well. At one point in Henry’s career, he was recruited into NOAA, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Or should I say, a project within NOAA, because there's so much compartmentalization in all of these agencies. The guy who recruited him was somebody who had also been on Mars. And there’s something about these - my words, not his - Mars veterans, there’s something that is traumatic about their experience, that Henry could not elaborate on.

He told me that these two highly qualified, very sane, very brilliant scientists, working for these classified organizations, they would close the door of this guy's office and they would weep together, because of what they had experienced together.

Oh.....and I'll pass on the chocolates.....thanks......couldn't risk them being laced with something....

[Lt_Ripley]

You forgot No. 5: They were kidnapped by real aliens (Greys?)

How do you explain claimed abductees who suffer of trauma? Or who seems to suffer of trauma?

seem too. being the operative word. they just as well could be suffering from delusion , a made up memory to block a real one like abuse , mental illness. or lying .

[rapid7]

seem too. being the operative word. they just as well could be suffering from delusion , a made up memory to block a real one like abuse , mental illness. or lying .

Could be, being the operative word.

Maybe they're suffering PTSD because they experience something real.

Or indistinguishable from fully awake consciousness.

I think we have to proceed with caution.

[fireinthesky]

seem too. being the operative word. they just as well could be suffering from delusion , a made up memory to block a real one like abuse , mental illness. or lying .

If they are lying I want to know why, you've got to have a motive to lie, unless you've got an illness that makes you lie.

[Lt_Ripley]

If they are lying I want to know why, you've got to have a motive to lie, unless you've got an illness that makes you lie.

plenty of people lie for the attention. I had an ex who told me her grandfather was a famous writer. His name was indeed the same. after I did some research on this writer and viewing a picture for the first time as well as the bio .... found that he was not her grandfather.

when I confronted her with the biography and picture ... what did she say ??? it was a conspiracy. that's when I packed my toothbrush.

the thing is unless you dug , you would never know she was lying. I have no doubt that she would be the kind of person to claim she was abducted. Many like her are out there. No motive is really necessary.

she also claimed to have 10 grand saved in the bank . she had nothing.

she claimed ( after I started to work on abuse issues ) that she had gone through abuse. she didn't .

her whole web started to unravel as I checked. Again there are many people out there like her.

Edited March 1, 2009 by Lt_Ripley

[badeskov]

from this site...

http://www.projectcamelot.org/interviews.html

from this video...

from the transcript....

http://www.projectcamelot.org/david_wilcoc...transcript.html

Ugh!! I tend to see this Project Camelot popping up despite that it is probably the largest repository of unsubstantiated claims and conjecture on the face of the Earth. I mean, it is a garbage heap of unprecedented proportions. How you can even begin to use that for anything is beyond me.

Cheers,

Badeskov

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

speaking of valid points .....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJUoiCdip7k

Penn & Teller (1/3) Alien Abduction

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFiDfwsphVs

Wow.These abductees seem to be a braintrust and people wonder why know one believes this crap. Good find Rip.

[badeskov]

quote from me.....#131

Another couple of quotes from the transcript.......(see my #131 on previous page for other quotes..)

So, can you explain to exactly why these people have any credibility in the field of which they speak?! The transcript offers no such thing and a search on David Wilcock is not exactly uplifting in this respect.

They have, in essence, no credibility. So why should we believe them?!

Cheers,

Badeskov

[TSS]

I own the book you speak of, I don't understand why you bring it up here at all, it doesn't strengthen your argument,

What's your opinion of the case presented in that book?