Homosexuality and Genetics

[tyler t.]

The last few decades have brought studies of homosexuality and its relation to genetics, if there is one. Scientists have studied hundreds of people and have possibly found a gene or an allele combination that may lead to homosexualiity. Now, many people say that homosexuality is just a choice. Personally, I can't believe that because what person would want to open themselves to public scrutiny and degradation. What is your take on this increasingly controversial topic??

[Admiral Danger]

its just that some people react differently to different people. straight people like people of the opposite sex, sometimes its influenced by looks.

and its almost the same with homosexuality except they like people of the same sex. its all to do with the emotion part of the brain.

so i dont think its a choice, its emotions.

[faraway]

Noone knows. Studies indicate various patterns, but there is no conclusive evidence. I certainly do know it's not a choice, bt usually when people use the word choice they simply mean not genetic.

Nor is liking the colour purple genetic, but I still do. I don't know why, and I can't help it.

[Ketzer]

People who say gays chose to be gay are stupid. I know it's blunt, it's very direct, but it's true.

Any smart person would know that, if sexual orientation is really a choice, any heterosexuals could just chose to become gay, when it's clearly not the case.

Edited March 8, 2009 by Almighty89

[faraway]

People who say gays chose to be gay are stupid.

Well, Y'know, I didn't want to say, but ....

[tyler t.]

Now, I myself am gay, and when I came out to my parents they said there was already some signs from as early as age 5. Although this might sound very stereotypical, they said I had the "gay lisp" or "gay talk" so they thought I could be. I didnt even know what homosexuality was until about 6th grade, so it definitely isn't a choice. Today when I view home footage of myself from my childhood I can pick out many things that fit the gay stereotypes, its quite eery and wierd lol.

A few weeks ago I had people ask me how I knew I was gay, and that I didnt just choose to be that way for some odd reason. Basically, I have never found an attraction to females, and have found a strong attraction to males. Just like a heterosexual knows he's straight by nature, a homosexual knows he is gay by nature...It might not be genetics but there is something else that affects the body from early on.

[Science-Girl]

Now, I myself am gay, and when I came out to my parents they said there was already some signs from as early as age 5. Although this might sound very stereotypical, they said I had the "gay lisp" or "gay talk" so they thought I could be. I didnt even know what homosexuality was until about 6th grade, so it definitely isn't a choice. Today when I view home footage of myself from my childhood I can pick out many things that fit the gay stereotypes, its quite eery and wierd lol.

A few weeks ago I had people ask me how I knew I was gay, and that I didnt just choose to be that way for some odd reason. Basically, I have never found an attraction to females, and have found a strong attraction to males. Just like a heterosexual knows he's straight by nature, a homosexual knows he is gay by nature...It might not be genetics but there is something else that affects the body from early on.

The same can be said about Transsexuals. Not Transvestites, but regular transsexuals that change their sex hormonally and physically to their mental gender whether they be male to female or female to male.

At this time it is listed as a mental condition, (Gender Identity Disorder) but they used to list homosexuality as a mental disorder as well. I personally believe that certain biological and or chemical abnormalities can and do happen to the brain of a fetus that can contribute to the state of sexual preference or gender identity. You are born with it and that's that.

It's all very interesting to me.

[Black Red Devil]

Now, I myself am gay, and when I came out to my parents they said there was already some signs from as early as age 5. Although this might sound very stereotypical, they said I had the "gay lisp" or "gay talk" so they thought I could be. I didnt even know what homosexuality was until about 6th grade, so it definitely isn't a choice. Today when I view home footage of myself from my childhood I can pick out many things that fit the gay stereotypes, its quite eery and wierd lol.

A few weeks ago I had people ask me how I knew I was gay, and that I didnt just choose to be that way for some odd reason. Basically, I have never found an attraction to females, and have found a strong attraction to males. Just like a heterosexual knows he's straight by nature, a homosexual knows he is gay by nature...It might not be genetics but there is something else that affects the body from early on.

According to recent research it is still inconclusive whether sexual orientation is biological or environmental. But studies done on identical twins (who have the same genetic makeup) suggested that hetero or homosexuality aren't biologically driven.

This Wikipedia link provides all sorts of information, none conclusive unfortunately.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation

[D1CKY D1AMOND]

This is a subject I decided to look into through medical texts before I posted.

I found some interesting data regarding homosexuality, from a professional view (certified MD) I can say conclusively that homosexuality is not a choice in either men or women. One thing I did find though is that some gay men and women really aren't gay although live this lifestyle. To be more specific some women often adopt it for various psychological reasons more so then men do... This is for another discussion

I had a chance to look at some data compiled from various research regarding homosexuality in a physiology perspective. As it turns out a Homosexuals brain actually resembles the brains of those from opposite sexes. There are also various other physical features like in the fingers and so on. For example the length of finger in gay men vary from straight men to a degree for example the ring fingers normally longer then the index fingers aren't on gay men they are more often then not the same length or shorter. Gay men are also more prone to many neurological and psychological disorders that mainly appear in women most of the time.... There are numerous physical and psychological differences between Homo and Hetero.

Th one major difference however I have found which really concretes the idea that gay people really are born the way they are, is the sense of smell. More specifically regarding pheromones. Where as straight men and women pick up on these from the opposite sex, gay men and women pick them up from the same sex.

All physical and psychological aspects of the human body are driven by genetics. I do not believe one single gene is responsible so much as I believe that multiple genes are. Geneticists are quickly narrowing in on the gay gene(s) and it is merely a matter of time before the differences are isolated and identified.

So have we found the specific genes responsible for the differences? No... Well not in humans it has been isolated in other species.

Is there evidence of a gay gene(s)? Yes... The entire make up of the body, mind and brain are governed by our genetic make up which in turn must mean that such genetics in humans exist. I am 99.9% sure of this.

The study of genetics is not an easy one... We still haven't figured out what a lot of our genes do, but we will eventually and such genetics will most certainly be found as well. Since homosexual behavior is found in numerous other species from fruit flies to dolphins, the only logical conclusion is that it is a natural phenomena that has always and will occur.

===

All people are equal and no one can help the way they are. The fact some say it is a choices mainly the religious is simple a moot and invalid argument. Anyone making it is a moron who like me should go to med school.

Homosexuality is not a step back or forward, the population of homosexuals % has not increased or decreased in the general population either. This also leads me to believe that gay people raising children do not effect their sexuality either.

Any single person who thinks it is 'curable' or that it is merely a 'choice' simply has no idea about how the human body, genetics, psychology or brain functions. They are ignorant charlatans who's views are driven by false religious ideologies and fear of something they don't understand.

This is not 1009 etc it is 2009, in this age we use science, logic, compassion and rational thinking to increase our understand of nature etc.

[newbloodmoon]

I don't have any material to quote from on either side of the fence. Whether homosexuality is chosen or your born that way, does it really matter? There are always going to be people who are for, against, or indifferent towards homosexuality, either from a religious standpoint, or general upbringing. To me it doesn't really matter what your sexual orientation is and how you had come to that conclusion. So I guess I am indifferent to the whole thing.

[Lt_Ripley]

it's a bit more complicated that just genes although our general sexuality is from our genes. Identical twins can vary ....... one gay and one not. Where they used to think Identical meant Identical. seems it isn't so.( just seen that on Twins on the Science channel not long ago. )

genes , birth order , hormones , all play into it. what does society do in my opinion ? it shapes how you deal with sexuality , it doesn't set your sexuality. People aren't taught to be gay or straight , they just are.

think of it this way ..................... you sexuality is not set either way until all those factors fall into place. And it's a coin toss.

A man's sexual orientation may be determined by conditions in the womb, according to a study.

Previous research had revealed the more older brothers a boy has, the more likely he is to be gay, but the reason for this phenomenon was unknown.

But a Canadian study has shown that the effect is most likely due to biological rather than social factors.

The research is published in the journal of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Professor Anthony Bogaert from Brock University in Ontario, Canada, studied 944 heterosexual and homosexual men with either "biological" brothers, in this case those who share the same mother, or "non-biological" brothers, that is, adopted, step or half siblings.

These results support a prenatal origin to sexual orientation development in men

Professor Anthony Bogaert

He found the link between the number of older brothers and homosexuality only existed when the siblings shared the same mother.

The amount of time the individual spent being raised with older brothers did not affect their sexual orientation.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5120004.stm

many many more studies like this ( and they far outweigh the anti homosexual studies arguments that are religiously funded and biased .) IMO when the seat of homosexuality will be found at the same time will the seat of heterosexuality ............... actually the seat of sexuality itself since it's the same coin .

[SQLserver]

I don't see why it makes a difference whether sexual preference is genetic or chosen.

Why does it matter if eating pizza is genetic, or if one just chooses to like it? You are still allowed to eat it. It's a basic right. Same with marriage.

[Science-Girl]

Because if they find out it's genetic, the overly religious anti-gay nutsos who are always saying God doesn't make mistakes can be shut up.

[Copasetic]

All physical and psychological aspects of the human body are driven by genetics. I do not believe one single gene is responsible so much as I believe that multiple genes are. Geneticists are quickly narrowing in on the gay gene(s) and it is merely a matter of time before the differences are isolated and identified.

So have we found the specific genes responsible for the differences? No... Well not in humans it has been isolated in other species.

Is there evidence of a gay gene(s)? Yes... The entire make up of the body, mind and brain are governed by our genetic make up which in turn must mean that such genetics in humans exist. I am 99.9% sure of this.

The study of genetics is not an easy one... We still haven't figured out what a lot of our genes do, but we will eventually and such genetics will most certainly be found as well. Since homosexual behavior is found in numerous other species from fruit flies to dolphins, the only logical conclusion is that it is a natural phenomena that has always and will occur.

This is too reductionist. It will never be a case of just genes and I hope there aren't many professional geneticists that have such a reductionist view of genetics either (actually I know there's not).

The interplay of genes and environment is what truly drives us, hardly ever just genes or just environment.

Genes which 'control' complex behaviors, at most, simply predispose us to those tendencies.

Edited March 9, 2009 by Copasetic

[Science-Girl]

I was going to edit my post to sound less aggressive, but it wouldn't let me after someone posted behind me.

One thing you have to consider is the number of abortions that will occur if a genetic cause is discovered. I know that Amniocentesis isn't used for every pregnant woman, but there are some other conditions such as Klinefelter's Syndrome that results in a 50% abortion rate.

I know people with Klinefelter's and besides being sterile, a they live perfectly normal lives. They are usually given testosterone to masculinize their body and a small percentage with the condition will transition to female using hormones and surgery.

Because of the presence of the Y chromosome, it's considered a male only condition. If they have a mosaic form of the condition, they may in fact have enough sperm to be fertile. I heard that with some of the new medical techniques, they can extract enough sperm for artificial insemination so they can still become fathers. Why kill a baby with this condition?

[D1CKY D1AMOND]

it's a bit more complicated that just genes although our general sexuality is from our genes. Identical twins can vary ....... one gay and one not. Where they used to think Identical meant Identical. seems it isn't so.( just seen that on Twins on the Science channel not long ago. )

They altered the genes of fruit flies and made them gay...

In regards to the ID twins while they are born with the same makeup this actually changes and diverts over time. Your genetics in reality change over time. It may very well show in this case that in some cases these genes don't develop until a certain age(s). None the less our genetic make ups tell us everything about the human body.

Chances are that the gay twin was born with a brain more resembling a female etc... While twins have the same genetic make up not everything is the same take fingerprints for example.

This is too reductionist. It will never be a case of just genes and I hope there aren't many professional geneticists that have such a reductionist view of genetics either (actually I know there's not).

The interplay of genes and environment is what truly drives us, hardly ever just genes or just environment.

Genes which 'control' complex behaviors, at most, simply predispose us to those tendencies.

While environment does alter our genes over time complex behaviors or certain ones this simply does not include say homosexuality.

Some people are just born abnormal as well.

The physiological differences not only in the body but brain as well tell me personally that there are certain factors involved we don't yet understand. As one of the posters mentioned since he was 5 his parents had a good idea he was gay based on certain characteristics.

Predisposition may be true for some but I don't think many when I look at the differences, aside from this genetics in the body that govern sex drive and so on have been found.

While it's true our genetics are always changing through our entire lives there are some genes that do not change for example ones that govern eye color or hair color. These permanent genes I believe (where the sex genes are located) are likely the sole driving force behind homosexuality from womb to adulthood. These various genes are what cause the physiological differences during development and needless to say make homosexuality more then simply a predisposition.

The main argument against predisposition though are what gay people say... as soon as they hit puberty and even before then they know they are attracted to same sex as opposed to opposite.

By saying to people it is a predisposition it's like saying doing certain thing will make your kid straight.... This simply isn't true.

I don't see why it makes a difference whether sexual preference is genetic or chosen.

Why does it matter if eating pizza is genetic, or if one just chooses to like it? You are still allowed to eat it. It's a basic right. Same with marriage.

It will end the argument that it is a choice which will then guarantee equal rights.

The deal here is that a minority group are being denied civil liberties by the majority... Marriage is one of these rights denied all over.

I believe that politically when a majority can strip a minority of it's civil rights simply because they can and don't approve, it's setting a dangerous precedent that will then allow anyone's liberties to be taken... This implies what we call rights really aren't rights they are privileges.

Assuming you belonged to a minority group would you be offended if your right to vote was stripped or your right to free speech?

[Torgo]

This is such a complex process that even if a gene were discovered, I'm sure the penetrence of the trait is very low. The brain is COMPLICATED. Other than major diseases like Huntington's, there are no "trait genes" in this respect. There are genes that modify probabilities. There is a gene that doubles your risk of getting depression, but not everyone with it gets depressed and not everyone without it doesn't.

[Lt_Ripley]

oops sorry

Edited March 9, 2009 by Lt_Ripley

[Copasetic]

They altered the genes of fruit flies and made them gay...

In regards to the ID twins while they are born with the same makeup this actually changes and diverts over time. Your genetics in reality change over time. It may very well show in this case that in some cases these genes don't develop until a certain age(s). None the less our genetic make ups tell us everything about the human body.

Chances are that the gay twin was born with a brain more resembling a female etc... While twins have the same genetic make up not everything is the same take fingerprints for example.

Deceptikon,

I am not trying to hate here man, but I thought you were in the medical community?

Our genetic makeup does not change over time, our genetic makeup is set when a sperm and egg fuse. Maybe you just confuddled your words and are trying to talk about how different groupings of genes become activated/inactivated over our life time?

While environment does alter our genes over time complex behaviors or certain ones this simply does not include say homosexuality.

No the environment does not alter genes over our life time, environmental factors alter expression of genes, but not the genes themselves. This is a fundamental concept of modern biology. What you are suggesting is some Lamarckian-esq biology.

Human behavior is very complex, whether we are talking about sexuality or social interactions. There is no way around that. And saying a certain, lone gene controls anyone of these behaviors is dangerously reductionist.

The physiological differences not only in the body but brain as well tell me personally that there are certain factors involved we don't yet understand. As one of the posters mentioned since he was 5 his parents had a good idea he was gay based on certain characteristics.

What is your point? That he had certain tendencies at age 5 only points to his genetics predisposing him to a certain type of behavior -Nothing more, nothing less. I am not sure how you see this as such a bad thing, its how all complex behaviors work.....

Predisposition may be true for some but I don't think many when I look at the differences, aside from this genetics in the body that govern sex drive and so on have been found.

huh?

While it's true our genetics are always changing through our entire lives there are some genes that do not change for example ones that govern eye color or hair color. These permanent genes I believe (where the sex genes are located) are likely the sole driving force behind homosexuality from womb to adulthood. These various genes are what cause the physiological differences during development and needless to say make homosexuality more then simply a predisposition.

Unfortunately, modern biology disagrees with just about everything you said above.

-Genetics aren't always changing through our entire lives

-All genes are permanent

-By 'sex genes' I am assuming you are referring to the SRY gene clustering, which only controls physiological differentiation between sexes -Not brain development

-Behaviors are all characterized by predispositions, genes can't force a behavior anymore than they can force your muscles to grow while sitting on the couch eating a bag of potato chips. The likelihood of a certain behavior or interactive tendency is characterized by how a set of genes interacts with our environment.

The main argument against predisposition though are what gay people say... as soon as they hit puberty and even before then they know they are attracted to same sex as opposed to opposite.

By saying to people it is a predisposition it's like saying doing certain thing will make your kid straight.... This simply isn't true.

That isn't true at all. That is not what a predisposition is saying -Your saying that for the reason you don't understand what predisposition in this context means.

A predisposition to certain behaviors can be so strong that essentially any feasible environment will result in a tendency toward that behavior.

It will end the argument that it is a choice which will then guarantee equal rights.

The deal here is that a minority group are being denied civil liberties by the majority... Marriage is one of these rights denied all over.

I believe that politically when a majority can strip a minority of it's civil rights simply because they can and don't approve, it's setting a dangerous precedent that will then allow anyone's liberties to be taken... This implies what we call rights really aren't rights they are privileges.

Assuming you belonged to a minority group would you be offended if your right to vote was stripped or your right to free speech?

Relax man, I'm not saying gay people shouldn't be allowed the right to be married. Your science is wrong though, that is what I was pointing out. By whatever means makes someone a homosexual, they should still be afforded all the rights of a heterosexual.

Whether one chooses a specific sexual orientation or arrives at that orientation via their genetics and the environment that fostered them is irrelevant to the question of whether two people of the same sex should be allowed to be married. There is no sound reasoning why two people of the same sex shouldn't be allowed to be married. Trying to impose a stagnant religious doctrine on a modern society is nonsensical (not that religion has always had a monopoly on marriage anyway), and in doing so we only perpetuate misbegotten beliefs and stereotypes.

Edited March 9, 2009 by Copasetic

[Copasetic]

This is such a complex process that even if a gene were discovered, I'm sure the penetrence of the trait is very low. The brain is COMPLICATED. Other than major diseases like Huntington's, there are no "trait genes" in this respect. There are genes that modify probabilities. There is a gene that doubles your risk of getting depression, but not everyone with it gets depressed and not everyone without it doesn't.

Spot on Torgo, man I wish you'd post more

[tyler t.]

I'm actually an identical twin, my brother being the straight one . There was genetic testing done on us every year for the first 7 years of my life by some university, and I wish I could get all the data from the tests. The only thing I know is that the tests concluded us to be 99.9% identical, with emotional traits being the .1% difference. But I know there was more to the tests because we had cameras watching us with just about every activity we did and people were always taking notes...

To add to an earlier post: I read an article (I sadly cannot recall what mag I read it in) that stated that with every male a mother produces, the mother's body produces more and more antibodies against the male, creating it into more of a feminine offspring versus the foreign object the mother's body sees the male baby as. I can maybe see this as true, but what about homosexual women? That seems to contradict the claim..

[Black Red Devil]

A UK scientist said there was evidence sexual orientation was set in the womb. Scientists have noticed for some time that homosexual people of both sexes have differences in certain cognitive abilities, suggesting there may be subtle differences in their brain structure. In other words, structurally, at least, the brains of gay men were more like heterosexual women, and gay women more like heterosexual men.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7456588.stm

[InfraredCow]

The last few decades have brought studies of homosexuality and its relation to genetics, if there is one. Scientists have studied hundreds of people and have possibly found a gene or an allele combination that may lead to homosexualiity. Now, many people say that homosexuality is just a choice. Personally, I can't believe that because what person would want to open themselves to public scrutiny and degradation. What is your take on this increasingly controversial topic??

Well, at a young age any child wouldn't know what was in store for them. I was gay at a young age, mostly because guys have a certain... aura about them that I disliked. I think that all that genetics stuff is BS. No one in my family is gay except for me. I think everyone is born with the ability to be who they choose. You can't like a band for their music if you have never heard it (unless it's purely realted to the culture it creates or something else such as that.) I think you develope what you like... I know a lot of gay people would get mad at me for saying that, but I'm not insisting that we can help it either -- as most people with that perspective see it. If you like something, then you like it.

A UK scientist said there was evidence sexual orientation was set in the womb. Scientists have noticed for some time that homosexual people of both sexes have differences in certain cognitive abilities, suggesting there may be subtle differences in their brain structure. In other words, structurally, at least, the brains of gay men were more like heterosexual women, and gay women more like heterosexual men.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7456588.stm

Hey, if it gets us our civil rights...

[InfraredCow]

I'm actually an identical twin, my brother being the straight one . There was genetic testing done on us every year for the first 7 years of my life by some university, and I wish I could get all the data from the tests. The only thing I know is that the tests concluded us to be 99.9% identical, with emotional traits being the .1% difference. But I know there was more to the tests because we had cameras watching us with just about every activity we did and people were always taking notes...

To add to an earlier post: I read an article (I sadly cannot recall what mag I read it in) that stated that with every male a mother produces, the mother's body produces more and more antibodies against the male, creating it into more of a feminine offspring versus the foreign object the mother's body sees the male baby as. I can maybe see this as true, but what about homosexual women? That seems to contradict the claim..

How incredibly interesting! Have you inquired about the information, or when it is to be released or anything concluded upon it?

[+DieChecker]

The last few decades have brought studies of homosexuality and its relation to genetics, if there is one. Scientists have studied hundreds of people and have possibly found a gene or an allele combination that may lead to homosexualiity. Now, many people say that homosexuality is just a choice. Personally, I can't believe that because what person would want to open themselves to public scrutiny and degradation. What is your take on this increasingly controversial topic??

It not only a choice, but choice does come into it. There is known genetic links to alcoholism, gambling and various criminal activities, but should we allow those with these genes to just go their own way? Do they not need to make a choice. I'm not saying that I am Anti-gay. I'm just saying choice is an element of it. It is a lifestyle that is chosen.

People who say gays chose to be gay are stupid. I know it's blunt, it's very direct, but it's true.

Any smart person would know that, if sexual orientation is really a choice, any heterosexuals could just chose to become gay, when it's clearly not the case.

It is also ignorant.

I personally know three people who were straight in high school, then chose to live a gay lifestyle for years and then turned back to a straight lifestyle and got married and had kids. Am I supposed to believe that they are still gay and in denial?

genes , birth order , hormones , all play into it. what does society do in my opinion ? it shapes how you deal with sexuality , it doesn't set your sexuality. People aren't taught to be gay or straight , they just are.

think of it this way ..................... you sexuality is not set either way until all those factors fall into place. And it's a coin toss.

....

many many more studies like this ( and they far outweigh the anti homosexual studies arguments that are religiously funded and biased .) IMO when the seat of homosexuality will be found at the same time will the seat of heterosexuality ............... actually the seat of sexuality itself since it's the same coin .

I can agree with most of this, but hasn't there been shown to be a large influence based on population pressures? In crowded environments homosexuality becomes more prevolent. The population pressure could possibly be the influence on the developing child.

This is such a complex process that even if a gene were discovered, I'm sure the penetrence of the trait is very low. The brain is COMPLICATED. Other than major diseases like Huntington's, there are no "trait genes" in this respect. There are genes that modify probabilities. There is a gene that doubles your risk of getting depression, but not everyone with it gets depressed and not everyone without it doesn't.

Good post.

Edited March 11, 2009 by DieChecker