Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
The Proposer

proving the obvious

99 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

The Proposer
The Prosper, Do you believe in one God? or, in many gods as supported by the vedas? Like Prajapati, Indra,Dyaus,Aditi and Ushas. Do you think all these gods helped create too?

It would be common sense to assume that god doesnt carry out every single bit of work himself,.

who comes to arrest you if you break the law,?

it is not the head of the government,the prime minister Blair himself,but one of many law enforcement officers.

WARNING! (for the genuine sceptics)the above is a comparative anology,because I am unable to describe the spiritual realm in simpler laymans terms,a modicom of grey matter and imagining may be required.,please remember it is not exactly what actually takes place,its just a simple down to earth way of describing things.

the Vedas ,by the way,point to one supreme controller,Krsna.

and the word Hindu is of Moslem origin meaning,the people over the river.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Proposer

yes there are many Gods or Demi Gods ,each coming under The Supreme Lords control,and each with allocated tasks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PsychicPenguin

Why does everything that exist has to be designed?????

lets just suppose we discover a sandcastle on a desserted beach,we should discuss how it got there and conclude something.

you ignore this when witnessing the design of sandunes.

The wind creates sandunes.

the wind is air movement,due to factors created by the sun(inc earth movement)

the sun exists,ir radiates energy,which goes to creating the sandunes.

Does it mean that the sanddunes are designed???? Supposed we discover a sandcastle on a desserted beach. Based on our knowledge, nature does not create sandcastles, it creates sanddunes. It is just straight forward to conclude that somebody created the sand castle and not the wind.

Supposed we discover a sand dune on a desserted beach. Which one do you think is correct?

1. It was created by the wind.

2. It was created by somebody.

Please answer this question. 1 or 2?

Edited by PsychicPenguin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Venomshocker

The Prosper, I dont think you really know what the vedas teach. The main God in the vedas is Brahman. And this main God created everything, and IS everything. If you believe what the vedas teach, you have to believe that all matter, and energy is God. Every person is a God. Every rock/pebble and star is a God. Everything is God. YOu hurt the enviroment, you are hurting God. Krishna is the central hero in the Mahabharata. He is not the creator.I have read many parts of the vedas, and I believe your in error, and your misenterpeting them.

It's really hard to argue with someone, or even debate with them about creationism, if they believe everything is God. How are you going to argue that?? How can you even hope to prove something like that.

Edited by Venomshocker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
X~File_Agent

The Proposer

Why give up on an active topic,it doesnt make sense.

The problem is the topic will never end. In your mind you are right, and everything you know is right. You took offense to my comment, yet you clearly called people who can't see past the paper stupid. As in folks who can't see the intelligent design behind it all. Like I said earlier, you arguments are NOT convincing anyone, yes everyone is in pursuit of the "ultimate" truth, however you feel you've reached that conclusion. Excuse me if I'm wrong in making that assumption.

Like Venom says....

It's really hard to argue with someone, or even debate with them about creationism, if they believe everything is God. How are you going to argue that?? How can you even hope to prove something like that.

This is why topics like these will go around in circles, just like the Evolution Vs. Creationism thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PsychicPenguin
yes there are many Gods or Demi Gods ,each coming under The Supreme Lords control,and each with allocated tasks.

It looks like you have learn Hinduism with Christian interpretation. GOOD JOB!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Proposer
Why does everything that exist has to be designed?????

Supposed we discover a sand dune on a desserted beach. Which one do you think is correct?

1. It was created by the wind.

2. It was created by somebody.

Please answer this question. 1 or 2?

obviously 2 is the answer,as with sandunes.

there is no such religeon as hinduism,they various so called Hindu religeons are variations on the Vedas.

things that exist point to a designer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Proposer
The Prosper, I dont think you really know what the vedas teach. The main God in the vedas is Brahman. And this main God created everything, and IS everything. If you believe what the vedas teach, you have to believe that all matter, and energy is God. Every person is a God. Every rock/pebble and star is a God. Everything is God. YOu hurt the enviroment, you are hurting God. Krishna is the central hero in the Mahabharata. He is not the creator.I have read many parts of the vedas, and I believe your in error, and your misenterpeting them.

It's really hard to argue with someone, or even debate with them about creationism, if they believe everything is God. How are you going to argue that?? How can you even hope to prove something like that.

you are incorrect Brahma is the highest of the material beings,the longest lived of the mortals,yes he also creates as we do.

read a correct interpretation by someone who followed the rules.

His Divine Grace A.C.Bhaktivednta Swami Prabhupada,all is not God the material energy is his inferior energy,and we are independent souls.

ther are about 150 interpretations of the baghavad gita in english only one is authorised,and even evil people have altered parts of some versions of this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Proposer
The Proposer

Why give up on an active topic,it doesnt make sense.

The problem is the topic will never end. In your mind you are right, and everything you know is right. You took offense to my comment, yet you clearly called people who can't see past the paper stupid. As in folks who can't see the intelligent design behind it all. Like I said earlier, you arguments are NOT convincing anyone, yes everyone is in pursuit of the "ultimate" truth, however you feel you've reached that conclusion. Excuse me if I'm wrong in making that assumption.

Like Venom says....

It's really hard to argue with someone, or even debate with them about creationism, if they believe everything is God. How are you going to argue that?? How can you even hope to prove something like that.

This is why topics like these will go around in circles, just like the Evolution Vs. Creationism thread.

i think over all i have given the best argument for the existence of a creator,nothing anyone else has said has convinced me its a load of pap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PsychicPenguin

Supposed we discover a sand dune on a desserted beach. Which one do you think is correct?

1. It was created by the wind.

2. It was created by somebody.

Please answer this question. 1 or 2?

obviously 2 is the answer,as with sandunes.

So every single sand dune on earth was made by somebody and not the wind??? rolleyes.gif

So all magnetic lines are created by some invisible beings and not just magnetism??? disgust.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Venomshocker

Brahman (the "creator" god) IS his creation. The cosmos is not so much a creation, but more an emanation from him.

All the humans, animals, and and gods, and even objects is one divine being.

The overcoming of Maya to perceive true reality (Brahman) thus constitutes an important task in Hinduism... you and God are one...

The main problem with the Hindu Gods is they never existed!...they were only in the minds of the novelists!...

    Rama and Krishna for example never existed, only in the mind of the novelist who wrote the epics Ramayana and Mahabharata, like Hamlet or Sherlock Holmes who never existed, only in the mind of the writer... or like the gods of Greece, Zeus, Apollo, Aphrodite, who only existed in the mind of Homer when he wrote the Iliad… and afterwards, the Romans copied them changing their names to Jupiter, Apollo, Venus... but they never existed, and they do not exist now!...they never made a star, not even an atom...

http://religion-cults.com/Eastern/Hinduism/hindu4.htm

I dunno man, how are you gonna prove everything is God? Or even show evidence for it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GunnerCDM

Woah... my brain just basically gave out after all that lmao. I do believe your both partially right mostly because i'm stuck somewhere in the middle, such as chaos is between heaven and hell in the great battle they're supposed to have or w/e. We have proven though that the universe itself is still growing which really could make a point for either of you. Also god's supposed to be all powerfull so therfore he could do it all by himself, or in an intresting twist maybe herself? Then again evolution could have been the main cause to by chain reactions and such. Could either of you tell me exactly what you think happened and why you think your right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Proposer

Supposed we discover a sand dune on a desserted beach. Which one do you think is correct?

1. It was created by the wind.

2. It was created by somebody.

Please answer this question. 1 or 2?

obviously 2 is the answer,as with sandunes.

So every single sand dune on earth was made by somebody and not the wind??? rolleyes.gif

So all magnetic lines are created by some invisible beings and not just magnetism??? disgust.gif

yes I believe so,the same as every wooden cabinet was made by somebody not just by a hammer.

also the invisible beings you talk of are visible to some,there is a method for developing the eyes to see them.

im not convinced that black holes,quasars and pulsars exist,but if an atronomer said I needed to purchase the correct telescope to witness them,then I would assume he is being truthfull.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Proposer

Ive not read your link venom because I only read the correct interpretation of The Vedas,by someone who has followed the rules ,please search under the name i mentioned earlier,and also regarding the later alterations to his texts,(so bogus gurus could mislead people,there is a theory that he was poisoned,Prabhupada.org is a good one to look under,take note of the book changes tho,dont forget he actually practised the prescribed life of the Vedas,all the other commentators did not or didnt give it their completeness.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Proposer
Woah... my brain just basically gave out after all that lmao. I do believe your both partially right mostly because i'm stuck somewhere in the middle, such as chaos is between heaven and hell in the great battle they're supposed to have or w/e. We have proven though that the universe itself is still growing which really could make a point for either of you. Also god's supposed to be all powerfull so therfore he could do it all by himself, or in an intresting twist maybe herself? Then again evolution could have been the main cause to by chain reactions and such. Could either of you tell me exactly what you think happened and why you think your right?

best to read the authorised version of Vedas by the author I have mention.

all the other commentaries are based on speculation and whims.

Krsna has an eternal female escort Radharani.

Brahma is the creator of the material universe which is one quarter of the whloe creation.

regarding the Vedas please note that in comparrison to the bible where actual historical events and christs and others parables have been successfully seperated,this is not the case with some translation of vedas,some factual storie have become mixed with analogical tales,it seems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GunnerCDM

the book isn't really what i want to read i wanted to know what you and penguin both believe what happened and how it happened in your own words and beliefs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Proposer
the book isn't really what i want to read i wanted to know what you and penguin both believe what happened and how it happened in your own words and beliefs

Although I would like to spout my own theories on everything,i think this would be unfare and present a faulty picture,simply because I am not a pure soul,im a sinner,like most others ,so it would be hipocritical of me ,so I have to humble myself and point you in the direction of the higher source,my interpretations would definitely be faulty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PsychicPenguin

yes I believe so,the same as every wooden cabinet was made by somebody not just by a hammer.

So you are going to the ultimate cause argument? You do realize that the ultimate cause does not have to be a God, don't you? The ultimate cause does not have to be intelligent, and the ultimate cause does not have to design everything.

When you walk through a dessert, you leave behind your footprints. You are the creator of your footprints. Does it mean that you designed your footprints?

Now a snail moves across a sidewalk, leaving behind a slimy track. Did the snail design the track?

Supposed we play dice. I throw 3 and you throw 6. You become the winner. Did you designed yourself to be a winner?

Oh.. btw.. where is your Vedas translation?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Proposer

Edit; removed unnecessary quote

think practically,because the boy made a sandcastle,did he design and make the bucket?

because I design something doesnt mean im the ultimate creator,I'll try to do link to Vedas,but if you wish search under Prabhupada Baghavad Gita as it is,also be very wary of later book alterations,these are compared on a site under changes to prabhupada's books.

Edited by Magikman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PsychicPenguin

http://religion-cults.com/Eastern/Hinduism/hindu4.htm

I dunno man, how are you gonna prove everything is God? Or even show evidence for it?

That link sucks... Venom, if you want to learn something about Hinduism, then you have to find a Hindu source, not a Christian fundamentalist. The author has absolutely no idea on what he is talking about.

Some quotes:

The main problem with the Hindu Gods is they never existed!...they were only in the minds of the novelists!

The main problem with the sentence is that it applies to Christian God as well.

I don't find too many problems with seeing God in everything. Why a creator must be different from its creation? In fact it is provides an answer to one of the fundamental question "Who created God?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Proposer

I dont find many modern christian ideas of God very practical but the bible sories and witness accounts seem straight forward enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PsychicPenguin

think practically,because the boy made a sandcastle,did he design and make the bucket?

Back to original problem. I am not questioning wether or not the sand castle was created using intelligence, but wether or not the sand dune was created with intelligence. You seems so convinced that the ultimate source is something intelligent. Why? I have give an example on how something can happen because of random chance alone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Proposer

Ive tried to look for a link to the good sites I have been on,no luck,try searching under,george harrison,poisoning theory,.

the best site for starters is the Prabhupada Sankirtan Society, but it doesnt come up under this heading on search,maybe I used a different search engine before,also the cow protection sites seem to be bona fide people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Venomshocker

Brahma is the creator of the material universe which is one quarter of the whloe creation.

...point you in the direction of the higher source,my interpretations would definitely be faulty

Firstly, if only 1/4 of the universe is material, what are the other 3/4?? And can you verify them scientifically?

Secondly is it your own personal belief that everything material is God?

You think the Prabhupada Baghavad Gita is the best translation??

And who do you think has made the best interpetation out of the vedas?There seems to be thousands of different interpetations, how will I know which ones are correct?

Edited by Venomshocker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
X~File_Agent

Also along the lines of Venom's comments. Interpretations, are being done by imperfect, human beings. To trust that one person got it right, and no one else did, is kind of scary. This reminds me of my previous religion, and almost sounds kind of Cult-ish.

The point is no matter what book it is, whether it's the Vedas, The Bible, etc..., They are all subjective to Interpration, because they were never written in an intelligent language that we ALL can understand clearly. Hence the biggest problem with organized religion. And why you ask. Because to me it sounds like it was written by humans, trying to make sense out of this world and tried to write about it the best they could for THEIR time. Now eon's of years later, things aren't making sense, and contradictions are found and thousands of religions are formed, because no one seems to agree. It sounds to me like there was no intelligent design behind it. Because if there were, than it wouldn't be so trivial trying to figure out what, who, or where to worship this "God". That's why it's called FAITH, because you reach a point where you have to do what YOU thinks it's best in your heart.

I'm getting this funny feeling of Deja-Vu blink.gif

Edited by X~File_Agent

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.