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The Proposer

proving the obvious

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Athlon64

What an interesting thread wacko.gif

Sand dunes are created by natural forces. Whether there is a God who created the Earth, Sun, sand and air movements necessary for their development is open to speculation.......but sand dunes are an ENTIRELY NATURAL PHENOMENON.

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The Proposer
Brahma is the creator of the material universe which is one quarter of the whloe creation.

...point you in the direction of the higher source,my interpretations would definitely be faulty

Firstly, if only 1/4 of the universe is material, what are the other 3/4?? And can you verify them scientifically?

Secondly is it your own personal belief that everything material is God?

You think the Prabhupada Baghavad Gita is the best translation??

And who do you think has made the best interpetation out of the vedas?There seems to be thousands of different interpetations, how will I know which ones are correct?

the other three quarters are the spiritual sky.

the author i menttioned lived his life by them,it is like hearing it from the horses mouth.

a true expert of the vedas.

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The Proposer

Christs words and parables are potent and they should remain unchanged,any interpretation or other of them is not needed they should be presented as they are.

if something is entirely natural,what in the world ios unnatural.

THE BAGHAVAD GITA IS PRESENTED BY THIS AUTHOR AS IT IS.

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Seraphina

THE BAGHAVAD GITA IS PRESENTED BY THIS AUTHOR AS IT IS.

Isn't that what followers of every interpretation of...well...anything...say? tongue.gif

At the end of the day, believing your own interpretation of something to be absolutely fool proof is when you've stopped looking for the truth, and are just trying to hammer peices into your jigsaw whether they fit or not.

I'm still struggling to see where you think this logic is in your arguement huh.gif To me, your theory that "things that exist point to a creator", is nothing short of the finest example of "god did it" mentality I've ever come across, especially given the enourmous wealth of evidence that exists that shows how life has come about by a natural process.

At the end of the day, for a man who says so much about logic, the very cornerstone of your entire belief (i.e the existance of god) is nothing but an assumption...there is no evidence of God's existance, nothing to even suggest that he/it does or has ever existed. The only references that do exist to God exist in the form of texts written thousands of years ago by people that lacked the knowledge to explain things any other way.

It frightens me that intelligent people can look at the non-creationist arguement...which can base itself in natural selection of inherited characteristics (something that we KNOW exists in nature, as it's been observed and even influenced by us), all the way back to abiogenesis, where we believe the first organic matter was created...a process that has been proven possible under laboratory conditions....

...and then look at creationism, which just starts with the assumption of an unsubstantiated, never seen or heard of creator, and then just builds assumtpion upon assumption, and actually believe that option number two is the most likely wacko.gif

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The Proposer

seraphina you say life as been formed under lab conditions,so ok,cakes can be made in an oven,we are not creating the ingredients,just bringing them together

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X~File_Agent

The Proposer

Christs words and parables are potent and they should remain unchanged,any interpretation or other of them is not needed they should be presented as they are.

Tell that to the other hundreds of denominations. Let me ask you this, let's assume there's a "God" for one brief second and that Armageddon will come. What's going to happen to the millions of Catholics, Jews, Christian Denominations, etc.... Who all think their version is the "Truth", how would you choose whose right and wrong? Wouldn't you be really upset with this "God", if he didn't pick your religion as the true one. Eventhough you lived your life, by this religion and it's teachings thinking this was your Stairway to heaven? Or is just believing the basic concepts on your own good enough to make it out alive? Eventhough churches encourage that you congregate for worship, because it is referenced in the Bible that you do so.

I know what your answer will be. God will choose, and it's all a matter of you having faith in him, that in the end you served your life the best way that you could. To that I say good luck. But I wouldn't bet money, on one person being so divine. You make it sound like he's another Jesus. If so, let see some miracles and I'll believe he's heard it from the horses mouth, otherwise he's just another "Joe" with an interpration of what "HE" thinks to be the truth. Remember, the voice of one person can be very powerful. Let's not forget all those people who died because one man told them, there was going to be a spaceship behind a comet.

The point, is you shouldn't follow so closely what ONE individual interprets as being the ultimate truth.

Good luck in your search for truth.

Edited by X~File_Agent

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The Proposer

let me just briefly tell you how I feel regards my posts on here.

regarding re4alising the existence of God.

it is like I have discovered a bargain store where they are giving genuine magic wands away free,without any obligation,and I am trying to spread this news to others,but for some reason people are trying to convince me I am mistaken,this can be very disconcerting,those wands exist!get down to the store.

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PsychicPenguin
seraphina you say life as been formed under lab conditions,so ok,cakes can be made in an oven,we are not creating the ingredients,just bringing them together

you missed the entire point.

The lab was used to simulate nature.

The oven was used to create cake.

Drawing an analogy between the two and draw a conclussion out of it is totaly flawed.

And I said this so many times... you may NOT draw a conclussion using analogy, they are good only to explain a conclussion that is known to be correct.

The color of fire is orange, the fire is hot.

Therefore a glass of orange juice must be hot.

The cake ingredients come from hens, cows, and sugar canes, which are not as intelligent as the baker. The hen get its source from corns, which are less intelligent than the hen. The corn get its source from the soil, which has no intelligent whatsoever. Continuing the trend, the ultimate source is something with the least intelligence tongue.giflaugh.gif

whistling2.gif

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PsychicPenguin
it is like I have discovered a bargain store where they are giving genuine magic wands away free,without any obligation,and I am trying to spread this news to others,but for some reason people are trying to convince me I am mistaken,this can be very disconcerting,those wands exist!get down to the store.

WHERE IS THE STORE??????

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The Proposer

WHERE IS THE STORE??????

The Vedas.(Translated by the ultimate expert)

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GunnerCDM

ok 1. this guy seeems to be arugeing one religion in which case everyone has diffrent beliefs, secondly you two can be argueing this until you die and neither of you will ever win, so you mine as well give it a rest this will most likely never be solved in my lifetime or the next 100

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The Proposer

xfile guy,its important to find a bona fide expert and stick with him,once you find a good source intelligently you stick with it,you dont choose that source whimsically ,you choose it because its revelations prove factual over time.

regarding different peoples views of what God does and is like,we could have different theories of what pluto is like,but it wont change anything when we go there,but we should look to the best source of theries about that planet.

PP...if the experiment referred to is the one i am thinking of ,already occuring molecules were used with the addition of light,or ingredients with the addition of an energy sourc e bringing about a result,very much cakelike in my opinion,but besides this we could say we create life in the womb from two different ingredients,still external imput(no pun intended)is needede,the baby doesnt miracuosly appear out of the ether,similar to the Romans believing maggots were born from cheese.

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The Proposer
ok 1. this guy seeems to be arugeing one religion in which case everyone has diffrent beliefs, secondly you two can be argueing this until you die and neither of you will ever win, so you mine as well give it a rest this will most likely never be solved in my lifetime or the next 100

its not about religion,religion to me means religeously believing in something with little foundation.

for instance you could religiously believe in atheism,altho arguments are for the opposite.

or you could religeously believe in material evolution ,just because someone says its truue,or it becomes a so called established fact.

im not pushing religeon here im trying to discuss the existence of a creator,like people theorise about astronomical data based on observation etc.

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GunnerCDM

still you guys can fight this till the day you die and neither of you will most likely ever win

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PsychicPenguin

.if the experiment referred to is the one i am thinking of ,already occuring molecules were used with the addition of light,or ingredients with the addition of an energy sourc e bringing about a result,very much cakelike in my opinion,but besides this we could say we create life in the womb from two different ingredients,still external imput(no pun intended)is needede,the baby doesnt miracuosly appear out of the ether

Off course, the baby does not miraculously appear out of the ether ... there is no miracle here, just a natural process... what are you trying to argue here??? blink.gif

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bathory

already occuring molecules

as opposed to what?

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Seraphina

Off course, the baby does not miraculously appear out of the ether ... there is no miracle here, just a natural process... what are you trying to argue here???

That he doesn't know about the birds and the bees? tongue.gif

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gonzowalker

Sand dunes are formed when the wind blows little grains of sand into big piles.

Prosper, the whole time I've read this thread a conversation between me and my brother comes to mind.

My brother moved to Arkansas and got a job making foam for fake plants. I was talking to him and he told me about his new job. I said "hell, I can pee in a mud puddle and make foam".

I know it isn't the same as what you are arguing, but thats what come to mind anyway. original.gif

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The Proposer
.if the experiment referred to is the one i am thinking of ,already occuring molecules were used with the addition of light,or ingredients with the addition of an energy sourc e bringing about a result,very much cakelike in my opinion,but besides this we could say we create life in the womb from two different ingredients,still external imput(no pun intended)is needede,the baby doesnt miracuosly appear out of the ether

Off course, the baby does not miraculously appear out of the ether ... there is no miracle here, just a natural process... what are you trying to argue here??? blink.gif

i was refering to the cake analogy,as already created ingredients are used,we do not create the basic ingreedients.you stated it was nothing like making a cake.

Doh!

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The Proposer
already occuring molecules

as opposed to what?

as oppose to them evolving from a neutrino,or creating them from scratch using energy.

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The Proposer
Sand dunes are formed when the wind blows little grains of sand into big piles.

Prosper, the whole time I've read this thread a conversation between me and my brother comes to mind.

My brother moved to Arkansas and got a job making foam for fake plants. I was talking to him and he told me about his new job. I said "hell, I can pee in a mud puddle and make foam".

I know it isn't the same as what you are arguing, but thats what come to mind anyway. original.gif

You wanna try p***in in the wind mate!

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PsychicPenguin

i was refering to the cake analogy,as already created ingredients are used,we do not create the basic ingreedients.you stated it was nothing like making a cake.

Doh!

Yes but as I said earlier, the eggs used to make a cake come from hens. And hens are less intelligent than the baker. The hens get their source from corns, and corns are less intelligent than hens. The corns get their source from the soil, which has no intelligent whatsoever. My point is THE ULTIMATE SOURCE DOES NOT HAVE TO BE SOMETHING INTELLIGENT!!!! rolleyes.gif

Edited by PsychicPenguin

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gonzowalker

You wanna try p***in in the wind mate!

It might blow back on you.....stand back.

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The Proposer
i was refering to the cake analogy,as already created ingredients are used,we do not create the basic ingreedients.you stated it was nothing like making a cake.

Doh!

Yes but as I said earlier, the eggs used to make a cake come from hens. And hens are less intelligent than the baker. The hens get their source from corns, and corns are less intelligent than hens. The corns get their source from the soil, which has no intelligent whatsoever. My point is THE ULTIMATE SOURCE DOES NOT HAVE TO BE SOMETHING INTELLIGENT!!!! rolleyes.gif

good post pp,but the flaw is the hens do not directly create the eggs,if they did do the creation of an egg would take far more intelligence than a cakemthe same is true of soil,the design of grain already exists it takes energy from the soil,if the soil created the seed,then indeed this would take a lot more intelligence than we have,.

some birds build elaborate nests to a bssic pattern ,depending on species,they do not create the materials used,but the intelligence of the design , camouflage and timing is very evident.

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The Proposer

You wanna try p***in in the wind mate!

It might blow back on you.....stand back.

this occurs often,but occasionaly the wind changes direction and Bingo!

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