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Beckys_Mom

Would you kill if god asked?

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Tiggs

No. An Omnipotent Deity doesn't need to test faith. An Omnipotent Deity already knows.

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ctn

I'd tell god to screw off, and then check what I'm drinking to make sure it wasn't spiked, as there is no god to ask me to do such a thing. lol

Then I'd go grab me a nice crispy pizza with mushrooms and pepper... Oh sorry, was getting carried away with the scenario.

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Jonny Wonny

No, certainly not.

[EDIT]

Plus,

If I were to believe in a creator god,

it would be one a little less insecure and more sane than the Abrahamic "Allah/Yahweh/Jehovah" god.

Edited by Jonny Wonny

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Jonny Wonny

Um.. it wouldn't be religion if you questioned it's gods ethics, now, would it?

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chaoszerg

I could never listen to an obviously weak God if it needs a puny mortal to do something for it.

Edited by chaoszerg

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Jonny Wonny

I believe, me being myself, I would still say 'no' to killing an innocent.

But then that depends on whether you were a follower of the Abrahamic god or not :/

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chaoszerg
I believe, me being myself, I would still say 'no' to killing an innocent.

But then that depends on whether you were a follower of the Abrahamic god or not :/

I am still wondering why a super duper God would need a mortal to do its dirty work. Surely his smitey power's of smiteyness should be able to do the trick much more effectively.

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Grandpa Greenman
You guys are forgetting that God also told him to stop,You also forgot that he was a Man of God there by making him strong in his Faith in God that God would not let him kill his son.You also said that the Question was One that let me to believe that I was living back in those day"BIBLICAL TIMES" instead of these times when back then God would walk and Talk with you and would show himself to you.

But here didn't know God would stop him. He was perfectly willing to off his child as God commanded. Though that kind of thing wasn't uncommon back then. People would kill children for a number of different reasons, like being deformed, sickly, or they just couldn't feed any more of them. Offering a child to a God for a good harvest is a good exchange when you have five others to feed.

Spoken like a modern person, Number1. I agree with you in the modern context, our attitude towards children and parenthood has changed dramatically (going by what we read in the literature that is left from those ancient times.)

What I am saying is that we don't really know how we would answer, because we cannot divorce ourselves from this modern mentality we have. However, if what we read in such texts that are left to us from biblical and pre-biblical times (from all cultures) is indicative of how the population in general thought with regards to religion, children, parenthood etc then it is likely we would not think as we do today.

I agree Leonardo, the ancient world had a completely different view of children. For most ancient children life wasn't the luxury the children of the first world know today.

So to answer the question, if I lived at the time of Abraham would I kill my child if a God ask me to, maybe I would.

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HerNibs

I'd have to say NO.

I understand that I would be a person living in ancient times and that the general attitude towards children isn't the same as today. I also am taking into consideration that an invisible, all powerful deity was speaking to me. I would still go with no.

I am putting myself into that time and place. With my current feelings and emotions. The love I have for my kids is overwhelming. They are the most precious things in the world for me.

I would offer myself instead.

HN

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Siara

If something asked me to kill my child I would not believe it was God anymore.

To me the story of Abraham and Isaac is the political aspect of religious tradition. I think these stories come from the human power mongers who manipulate religion because it is such a powerful tool for unifying an army.

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Dr. Peter Venkman
If you'll remember from Genesis 22, God tested Abraham's faith by commanding him to take his baby son Isaac and bring him up to the top of the mountain to sacrifice him to the Lord. Abraham agreed and was about to do it when the Lord stopped him just in time and said that he had passed the test and proven himself to be faithful.

QUESTION... - . IF you lived in the time of Abraham, and God had asked you to take your newborn child up to the mountain, and slay him with a knife would you have done that? Would you slay your own baby child by slugging a knife into him???!!! Would you? ...I am looking for a plain - YES or NO <--that's it really..lol

I know a lot of you will banter on about the promise ect...but that's not up for question...all I am asking is simple - would you slay your baby ..yes or no?

I am asking this as it can be interesting to see how many would answer straight up without beating around the bush ...honesty is the best_________<--- fill in blank lol

I would seek mental help.

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Siara

"When you talk to God you're praying. When God talks to you you're schizophrenic."

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Bill Hill

When I became an atheist, I killed God...I killed my Lord,

For my name is Bill Hill, God killer and destroyer of worlds.

Feel thy wrath of 'lack of evidence' and shudder...

For together we down walk down the valley of eternal oblivion.

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Paranoid Android
If you'll remember from Genesis 22, God tested Abraham's faith by commanding him to take his baby son Isaac and bring him up to the top of the mountain to sacrifice him to the Lord. Abraham agreed and was about to do it when the Lord stopped him just in time and said that he had passed the test and proven himself to be faithful.

QUESTION... - . IF you lived in the time of Abraham, and God had asked you to take your newborn child up to the mountain, and slay him with a knife would you have done that? Would you slay your own baby child by slugging a knife into him???!!! Would you? ...I am looking for a plain - YES or NO <--that's it really..lol

I know a lot of you will banter on about the promise ect...but that's not up for question...all I am asking is simple - would you slay your baby ..yes or no?

I am asking this as it can be interesting to see how many would answer straight up without beating around the bush ...honesty is the best_________<--- fill in blank lol

If I were in Abraham's position, and God had proven himself to be true to his word in all things miraculous, and he had promised my son/daughter (and no other) would be the one through whom my genealogy would be reckoned, I would like to think I would do as God asked.

I guess you would say then that the simple answer then is "yes". Though on a personal level here, I am not in Abraham's position, and my child (when i have a child) has not been given grand promises from God, backed up by miraculous deeds from the Lord whom I follow.

That's as honest as you're going to get from me, BM. Without taking the context of the event into consideration it's impossible to look for the play yes or no response. This hopefully explains the situation as I see it.

~ Regards,

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Paranoid Android
You are forgetting that this thread has just asked for a PLAIN and SIMPLE - YES or....NO

I am a loving parent and I say NOOOOOOOO

If the answer is simply one or the other, without any form of contextual understanding, then I say "Pass". There are variable to consider that would change the response :yes:

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Paranoid Android
The fact that God asked him to stop shows that God finds killing an ignorant child to be wrong(Go figure, with the world flood). That being said, why was he happy that his follower was willing to do something so wrong? It does not matter whether he asked him to stop or not, but the fact that it made God happy when he showed that he was willing to do such a sick thing.
Put yourself in Abraham's shoes for a moment, and then re-examine the question. Of course, in order to do this you actually have to know something of the history of what Abraham went through, including God's promises to keep him safe when he went to Egypt, his wild promise of an heir when he was too old for children and his wife was barren, and the extraordinary promise that the particular son in question (Isaac) would be the one through whom God would count his generations.

In Abraham's place, if you saw all these miraculous things, and God promised that your only son would be the seed through whom the entire world would be blessed, would you doubt? When he then asked to sacrifice him, in light of the miracles you had seen, how would you react? A man who Faithfully believes that God keeps all his promises MUST accept that Isaac could not die (or if he did, he would be resurrected from the grave). If you don't believe God's promises, then you would of course disagree. But going solely on the events recorded, which category would you fall under - remember that your barren wife had given birth with your seed, when you were also too old for children.....

Any thoughts on this one?

~ PA

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Paranoid Android
No. An Omnipotent Deity doesn't need to test faith. An Omnipotent Deity already knows.
But do we know?????

What I mean by this is, up to the point in time in Genesis, we have a depiction of a man who really doesn't trust God. When he arrives at the lands of other nations, on at least two occasions (from memory) he is afraid that the beauty of his wife would cause him to be killed and the ruler to take his wife as their own. Despite God's promise to keep him and Sarah safe, Abraham pretends to be Sarah's brother (not entirely untrue, since they were half-siblings). Both times, God condemns them for their lack of Faith.

Next time, God tells Abraham that he will be the father of a great nation. Again Abraham does not believe. After all, he was too old and his wife was barren. So he again fails in his duty to God - he tries to fulfil God's plan himself by having sex with his maidservant. Once again God condemns Abraham.

And then the impossible becomes possible - Sarah falls pregnant. A barren woman with an aged husband bears a child. And then God says that this child would be the one through whom the world would be blessed. Not another child! Not some other being that would come later. This one child, and this one child only.

At this point, we bring in God's test. Ask yourself - how would we read this section of text if this test did not exist. What would our opinion of Abraham be as a "man of Faith"? I have no doubt that we would all ask, "what Faith?" He hasn't shown any. He has repeatedly gone against God. However, the final test here shows that God's miracles in provided a son to a barren woman and aged man had swayed Abraham to finally put his full trust and confidence in God. The test is as much for Abraham's benefit as it is for ours. And as we today read this thousands of years later, it is for our benefit as well, and for the same reasons.

Just a thought :)

~ PA

Edited by Paranoid Android

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Cradle of Fish

If I were in Abrahams position I would. Just think about it. You're in a bronze age civilisation, you have no knowledge of science, psychology or mental illness. There's no such thing as an atheist or a doubter in your community(they were all offed like god told you), and morality was put in place by the creator of the entire universe(which beyond the earth and the few stars you can see you don't know exists). If you hear a voice in your head that's unlike your own which tells you to do something, you'll do it.

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Paranoid Android
But here didn't know God would stop him. He was perfectly willing to off his child as God commanded
I beg to differ. If we go solely by the text of the Bible, Abraham had been given a very clear promise that his son (the one he was asked to kill) was to be the one through whom his lineage would be reckoned. Remembering that God has kept every promise to Abraham, regardless of how crazy it seemed, I think the internal evidence is clear enough to show that Abraham did indeed know Isaac could not die. At worst, he would have believed that Isaac would die and God would resurrect him from the dead. If not that, then God must intervene before the knife comes down.

That is why context is so important. It's so easy to take this event on its own and condemn it without viewing the history behind it. But as I asked someone else, if you were in Abraham's shoes, and if these promises had been given about your son, how would you react?

~ PA

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Paranoid Android
If I were in Abrahams position I would. Just think about it. You're in a bronze age civilisation, you have no knowledge of science, psychology or mental illness. There's no such thing as an atheist or a doubter in your community(they were all offed like god told you), and morality was put in place by the creator of the entire universe(which beyond the earth and the few stars you can see you don't know exists). If you hear a voice in your head that's unlike your own which tells you to do something, you'll do it.
I see what you're saying. However, does the voice in your head unlike your own that tells you to do something also give your barren wife a child when you are too old for children? If it did, wouldn't that make it something more than a voice in your head?

Just a thought.

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Karlis
If you'll remember from Genesis 22, God tested Abraham's faith by commanding him to take his baby son Isaac and bring him up to the top of the mountain to sacrifice him to the Lord. Abraham agreed and was about to do it when the Lord stopped him just in time and said that he had passed the test and proven himself to be faithful.

QUESTION... - . IF you lived in the time of Abraham, and God had asked you to take your newborn child up to the mountain, and slay him with a knife would you have done that? Would you slay your own baby child by slugging a knife into him???!!! Would you? ...I am looking for a plain - YES or NO <--that's it really..lol

I know a lot of you will banter on about the promise ect...but that's not up for question...all I am asking is simple - would you slay your baby ..yes or no?

I am asking this as it can be interesting to see how many would answer straight up without beating around the bush ...honesty is the best_________<--- fill in blank lol

B's Mom -- you are asking us to give you "YES or NO" answer.

You say that you will not accept, "a lot of banter about the promise ect."

Since you request either a "Yes" or a "No" for an answer, I will ask you to answer a similarly loaded question, for which you also must give exactly the same one word answer -- no banter and nothing but a simple "Yes" or a "No".

- snip -

Your answer, please?

Karlis

Edited by Saru
Removed highly inapropriate comment

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louie

NO.

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Karlis
You guys are forgetting that God also told him to stop,You also forgot that he was a Man of God there by making him strong in his Faith in God that God would not let him kill his son.You also said that the Question was One that let me to believe that I was living back in those day"BIBLICAL TIMES" instead of these times when back then God would walk and Talk with you and would show himself to you.
You just broke B's Mom's rules number one, two and three Ghost. :)

You can only answer "Yes" or "No".

Karlis

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Karlis
You are forgetting that this thread has just asked for a PLAIN and SIMPLE - YES or....NO

I am a loving parent and I say NOOOOOOOO

Hhmmm -- is this how the blind answer the blind? :huh:

Karlis

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Karlis
If anyone answers this question as though they are the person they are today, then this answer does not satisfy the premise.

You are born in, and living in, the time of Abraham. You would not be the person you are today, with all the freedom(s), knowledge, attitude etc you have towards such things as religion, parenthood etc.

It is likely the vast majority of those who say "NO" in such an emphatic voice, would have said "Yes" were this question to be asked 2,500 or so years ago - in fact, funnily enough, the answer was "Yes".

This answer of yours seems to be a voice of logic and sanity concerning a loaded question that has no answer in today's time-frame, Leo. :tu::)

Karlis

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