Dragons were comets

[The Gremlin]

Bristlecone Pine Trees have lived over 6,000 years as I recall, and reptiles are already known as the longst lived vertebrates.

And the most ridiculous thing about some dragon legends is the notion that a tiny human could kill one with a lance or spear. In fact, this is largely a modern, comic book and cartoon adaptation to the earlier myths. While ancient peoples everywhere acknowledged quite enormous dragons, these ancient and medieval peoples knew more about human capabilities and fighting wild animals than ignorant modern fantasy writers. This is why St. George's dragon is usually the size of a goat in real medieval depictions, and seldom larger than a horse. But carved on most medieval churches are the 'big dragons' no one could fight, that were suppposed to consume all the sinners on Judgement Day as the carvings depict.

actually rather than 'some' its 'almost all' dragon legends have someone slaying it, defeating it, driving it off.

The most popular by far is that some hero (usually the focus of the tale, not the dragon) slays the dragon in some interesting way.

are all of these dragon myths rediculous?

all of the most important ones, and the earliest, are killed by humanoid gods, or human demi-gods or heroes.

the defeat of kur by enki is not a new comic-book adaption...its written in cuneiform.

tiamat defeated by marduk,

various dragons defeated by Herakles

Yam defeated by Baal Hadad

clearly not 'largely a modern, comic book and cartoon adaption of early myths' they are the early myths.

its got nothing to do with 'the ancients' knowing the real fighting capabilities of a living dragon....its about making up a fictional story invested with cultural, religious, social, and individual significance.

The dragon type creature mythologically assigned to eating the unworthy after death is more likely to have been based on the Egyptian Ammut concept than any real life, immortal, great dragon.

P.S. you did not answer my previous post DC....

pls show me exactly where i am in error DC.

i identified the pic you posted as a bixie.

i informed you that the bixie came with the Han dynasty, circa 210BC-200AD......and that the long/lung dragon is older in chinese culture by approx 2500-3000 years.

I also stated that the bixie does not share the same origin as the lung....

on what specific point am i wrong?

i am well aware of the various shang dragons which, made as decorative pieces of jade, depict various creatures including the famous 'pig-dragon'.

but bringing my attention to this does not prove an earlier date for the bixie, which has 'non-chinese' origins.

[truthseeker68]

As far as Dragons being myth, legend, or adaptations of religious beliefs, etc....I would like to see some actual PROOF they were/are real living breathing creatures. If anyone can do that....I'll be the first in line to shake his/her hand and pour all my life savings into helping uncover more PROOF.

All I keep hearing from any of the supporters for REAL dragons are myths, legends and artistic images of what they call dragons. If Dragons were real...they would leave behind some evidence of being alive whether now or anytime in history. If someone actually slayed a dragon wouldn't it be common sense to believe they would have kept some sort of momento of the occassion..? Even hunters of old kept antlers for wall decorations, I would think a Dragon head would be much more impressive. Maybe there is a real dragon skull or tooth somewhere hidden among the relics in a museum or old family mansion in Europe..? Maybe....they have some sort of skeleton in China or Japan that they are keeping to themselves..?

Oh...and this whole thing about Dragons being sentient beings with supernatural powers, breathing fire, psychic abilities, blah, blah, blah.....

COME ON (Shirley) you can't be serious...!!!

I would love nothing more than to see a real dragon alive or dead....but I'm afraid they just don't exist....now or have they ever.

If I'm wrong....-please prove me wrong...PLEASE...!!!

I'll be waiting for the slightest bit of REAL evidence to surface.

[The Gremlin]

He is serious.....and dont call him shirley.

or he might order his pet dragons to nibble your bum.

Edited April 7, 2009 by lil gremlin

[theSOURCE]

As far as Dragons being myth, legend, or adaptations of religious beliefs, etc....I would like to see some actual PROOF they were/are real living breathing creatures. If anyone can do that....I'll be the first in line to shake his/her hand and pour all my life savings into helping uncover more PROOF.

Dragons are real. I know because I've dated a couple (fire breathing, cold blooded, ruthlessly carnivorous, etc.).

And they can fly too. After devastating me completely they flew away faster than I could say, "Ouch..."

Then again, I have encountered beautiful angels as well...

[truthseeker68]

Dragons are real. I know because I've dated a couple (fire breathing, cold blooded, ruthlessly carnivorous, etc.).

And they can fly too. After devastating me completely they flew away faster than I could say, "Ouch..."

Then again, I have encountered beautiful angels as well...

Yeah....I've been assaulted by Female dragons all my life....and they have larger fangs and can fly faster as well...

The worst part is....they usually come back to lick your wounds...then when your feeling better....they bite ya again...!!!

[draconic chronicler]

actually rather than 'some' its 'almost all' dragon legends have someone slaying it, defeating it, driving it off.

The most popular by far is that some hero (usually the focus of the tale, not the dragon) slays the dragon in some interesting way.

are all of these dragon myths rediculous?

all of the most important ones, and the earliest, are killed by humanoid gods, or human demi-gods or heroes.

the defeat of kur by enki is not a new comic-book adaption...its written in cuneiform.

tiamat defeated by marduk,

various dragons defeated by Herakles

Yam defeated by Baal Hadad

clearly not 'largely a modern, comic book and cartoon adaption of early myths' they are the early myths.

its got nothing to do with 'the ancients' knowing the real fighting capabilities of a living dragon....its about making up a fictional story invested with cultural, religious, social, and individual significance.

The dragon type creature mythologically assigned to eating the unworthy after death is more likely to have been based on the Egyptian Ammut concept than any real life, immortal, great dragon.

P.S. you did not answer my previous post DC....

Kur and Enki are both Dragons. Enki is acclaimed as the Great Dragon who Stands in Eridu. Most Middle Eastern scholars acknowledge many of these mesopotamian gods could assume dragon forms, which is why the Biblical Eden has a walking talking serepent dragon as the antagonist, certainly an earlier god and not simply a sentient snake. And various scholars have identified Enki, ningishzida and other 'dragon' gods as the serpent of Eden.

Marduk was the son of Enki and could become a winged, armed Muhrushu type dragon like Enki, as his hymns proclaim, while Tiamat was believed to be merely a big, sometimes multi-headed sea serpent. Of course this story has no historical basis as Marduk was merely invented centuries after the original epics to give the new city of Babylon its own unique god.

Baal Hadad, like hercules is portrayed as enormous as any dragon, this is why people back then imagined the hero could defeat the dragon - because they were just as big, or bigger than the dragon, and no wonder, as the greeks believed mammoth bones were the bones of heroes like Hercules!

Your previous post was answered long ago. The evidence proves short bodied dragons always existed in China, but for artistic reasons, the long bodied dragon remained more popular and is the type most people associate with China.

The notion of a normal human defeating a large dragon began as an Enlish medieval satire of catholic saint mythology never meant to be taken seriously,..................... except modern fantasy writers did, and in doing so only reveal how stupid they are.

[draconic chronicler]

As far as Dragons being myth, legend, or adaptations of religious beliefs, etc....I would like to see some actual PROOF they were/are real living breathing creatures. If anyone can do that....I'll be the first in line to shake his/her hand and pour all my life savings into helping uncover more PROOF.

All I keep hearing from any of the supporters for REAL dragons are myths, legends and artistic images of what they call dragons. If Dragons were real...they would leave behind some evidence of being alive whether now or anytime in history. If someone actually slayed a dragon wouldn't it be common sense to believe they would have kept some sort of momento of the occassion..? Even hunters of old kept antlers for wall decorations, I would think a Dragon head would be much more impressive. Maybe there is a real dragon skull or tooth somewhere hidden among the relics in a museum or old family mansion in Europe..? Maybe....they have some sort of skeleton in China or Japan that they are keeping to themselves..?

Oh...and this whole thing about Dragons being sentient beings with supernatural powers, breathing fire, psychic abilities, blah, blah, blah.....

COME ON (Shirley) you can't be serious...!!!

I would love nothing more than to see a real dragon alive or dead....but I'm afraid they just don't exist....now or have they ever.

If I'm wrong....-please prove me wrong...PLEASE...!!!

I'll be waiting for the slightest bit of REAL evidence to surface.

It i quite posible that dragons are contantly being seen, these may be what Lake monsters are, like Nessie, Champ, Ogopogo, etc. Nessie is often referred to as a "dragon". Just google the two words together and see for yourself.

As for people with dragon trophies, what would convince you of a notions so ridiculous a human with iron age weapons, killing a large dragon?

Because a fairy tale says so? Do you know why nobody chops of the head of a T Rex in Jurassic Park??????

Probably because the scientists PAID as technical advisors would have said that would be STUPID.

And it would even be stupider to imagine a human killing an intelligent dragon, which logically would be far more dangerous than any dinosaur.

As far as evidence, there are thousands of accounts of humans seeing large reptilian creatures, which were often believed to be gods and supposedly taught humans various technologies.

There is motion picture, voice recordings, photos and eyewitness accounts of large unknown animals that are probably the dragons believed in by our ancestors.

The vast majority of humans on earth, billions and billions, profess belief in faiths that include dragons in their lore.

Perhaps these billions and billions of people are all wrong. But perhaps you are.

[The Gremlin]

Kur and Enki are both Dragons. Enki is acclaimed as the Great Dragon who Stands in Eridu. Most Middle Eastern scholars acknowledge many of these mesopotamian gods could assume dragon forms, which is why the Biblical Eden has a walking talking serepent dragon as the antagonist, certainly an earlier god and not simply a sentient snake. And various scholars have identified Enki, ningishzida and other 'dragon' gods as the serpent of Eden.

Marduk was the son of Enki and could become a winged, armed Muhrushu type dragon like Enki, as his hymns proclaim, while Tiamat was believed to be merely a big, sometimes multi-headed sea serpent. Of course this story has no historical basis as Marduk was merely invented centuries after the original epics to give the new city of Babylon its own unique god.

Baal Hadad, like hercules is portrayed as enormous as any dragon, this is why people back then imagined the hero could defeat the dragon - because they were just as big, or bigger than the dragon, and no wonder, as the greeks believed mammoth bones were the bones of heroes like Hercules!

Your previous post was answered long ago. The evidence proves short bodied dragons always existed in China, but for artistic reasons, the long bodied dragon remained more popular and is the type most people associate with China.

bibleorigins.com interpretations of mesopotamian culture are often outdated and defunct.

your interpretations of Mesopotamian literature and art are questionable at best.

The evidence available actually suggests a range of dragon forms. One particularly popular as far back as 3000bce or so, and already recognisable as a lung (dragon)...

The one you posted was at least 2500 years or so younger....and a foreign concept (barbarian) which didnt become 'chinese' until the Han took control. It did not share the same name as the lung/or long; you posted a Bixie.

It used to be a mesopotamian mythical and heraldic composite creature....bronzes decorated with them became popular all over, and other composite creatures too....

The Han traded with barbarians who's goods are traced back to Luristan (in iran?).

Early on the Han modified the design little, it was still composite of reptilian, avian raptor (hind legs and wings) , and feline.

later it became a predominantly feline creature with wings......they modified it, chineseified it.

This doesnt suggest that people saw real dragons all of the time, learned the secrets of civilisation from them, rode around in the sky on them etc....as you claim.

Depictions of them would be as similar as, say, depictions of horses.

Edited April 8, 2009 by lil gremlin

[Eccentricity]

I belive dragons are just an exaggeration of dinosaurs. It's quite possible man and dino lived together. Scientist thought the Coelacanth was extinct for millions of years, and they were wrong.

[Undeadskeptic]

Dude I never said that they lived with people, I thought you'd be smart enough to figure out that people have been digging up fossils for a long time. By looking at fossils you can basically make your own mental image of what it could look like, and of course back then it scared people, thus dragons...

That makes little difference. There is still almost no similarities between the dragons vs. the dinosaurs you posted.

[Undeadskeptic]

Because a fairy tale says so? Do you know why nobody chops of the head of a T Rex in Jurassic Park??????

Because they could kill it so more easily. With guns.

[Mattshark]

I belive dragons are just an exaggeration of dinosaurs. It's quite possible man and dino lived together. Scientist thought the Coelacanth was extinct for millions of years, and they were wrong.

It really isn't quite possible at all, it is extremely unlikely, 65m years is an enormous gap. I wish people would get over the silly coelacanth myth! It is extinct, the coelacanth now are not the same coelacanth from 65mya.

[catutie]

Maybe they don't die. Some scientists believe we may someday defeat the aging process. Maybe the dragons, or the creator of the dragons have already solved this. But it is true that reptiles can completely dissolve the skeletons of their prey, or other dragons if necessary to keep their current existence a secret.

Billions of people, in fact, the majority of people on earth, practice religions/belief systems that acknowledge the existence of dragons.

Maybe they are wrong, maybe they aren't.

now wait you just made this even better. so you are saying that dragons just.....dont die............oh my gosh are you kidding me then we would be OVERRUN by dragons....they would multiply and multiply and multiply and we wouldnt be the dominant species.....dragons would. and to tell you the truth....we are never going to overcome the aging process...and even if we do out imunity will become soooooo bad that we will jsut die of the common cold....or A germ.

[draconic chronicler]

now wait you just made this even better. so you are saying that dragons just.....dont die............oh my gosh are you kidding me then we would be OVERRUN by dragons....they would multiply and multiply and multiply and we wouldnt be the dominant species.....dragons would. and to tell you the truth....we are never going to overcome the aging process...and even if we do out imunity will become soooooo bad that we will jsut die of the common cold....or A germ.

Not if they practiceded "planned parenthood". In most of the earliest myths, the dragons were highly intelligent gods that helped man develop, rather than attempt to wipe humans out. If they had unusualy long lifespans there would be no reason to precreate. The change from dragons as benificent gods, to predacious monsters is a relatively recent development, that began when dragons became the "evil" god in dualistic religions like Zoroastrianism and its 'spin off', Christianity. Though even here, the early Christian understanding of dragons in their lore was far different than today.

Edited April 8, 2009 by draconic chronicler

[The Gremlin]

QUOTE (draconic chronicler @ Apr 8 2009, 02:22 AM) *

Kur and Enki are both Dragons. Enki is acclaimed as the Great Dragon who Stands in Eridu. Most Middle Eastern scholars acknowledge many of these mesopotamian gods could assume dragon forms, which is why the Biblical Eden has a walking talking serepent dragon as the antagonist, certainly an earlier god and not simply a sentient snake. And various scholars have identified Enki, ningishzida and other 'dragon' gods as the serpent of Eden.

Marduk was the son of Enki and could become a winged, armed Muhrushu type dragon like Enki, as his hymns proclaim, while Tiamat was believed to be merely a big, sometimes multi-headed sea serpent. Of course this story has no historical basis as Marduk was merely invented centuries after the original epics to give the new city of Babylon its own unique god.

Baal Hadad, like hercules is portrayed as enormous as any dragon, this is why people back then imagined the hero could defeat the dragon - because they were just as big, or bigger than the dragon, and no wonder, as the greeks believed mammoth bones were the bones of heroes like Hercules!

Your previous post was answered long ago. The evidence proves short bodied dragons always existed in China, but for artistic reasons, the long bodied dragon remained more popular and is the type most people associate with China.

bibleorigins.com interpretations of mesopotamian culture are often outdated and defunct.

your interpretations of Mesopotamian literature and art are questionable at best.

In China

The evidence available actually suggests a range of dragon forms. One particularly popular as far back as 3000bce or so, and already recognisable as a lung (dragon)...

The one you posted was at least 2500 years or so younger....and a foreign concept (barbarian) which didnt become 'chinese' until the Han took control. It did not share the same name as the lung/or long; you posted a Bixie.

It used to be a mesopotamian mythical and heraldic composite creature....bronzes decorated with them became popular all over, and other composite creatures too....

The Han traded with barbarians who's goods are traced back to Luristan (in iran?).

Early on the Han modified the design little, it was still composite of reptilian, avian raptor (hind legs and wings) , and feline.

later it became a predominantly feline creature with wings......they modified it, chineseified it.

in fact it became less dragony as time passed in china, not considered by them as a lung, it became a winged feline guardian of tombs and spiritual places.

This doesnt suggest that people saw real dragons all of the time, learned the secrets of civilisation from them, rode around in the sky on them etc....as you claim.

Depictions of them would be as similar as, say, depictions of horses.

Edited April 8, 2009 by lil gremlin

[Gothraidh]

I wanna see a giant dragon condom.

[Cleomenes]

now wait you just made this even better. so you are saying that dragons just.....dont die............oh my gosh are you kidding me then we would be OVERRUN by dragons....they would multiply and multiply and multiply and we wouldnt be the dominant species.....dragons would. and to tell you the truth....we are never going to overcome the aging process...and even if we do out imunity will become soooooo bad that we will jsut die of the common cold....or A germ.

Not if they practiceded "planned parenthood".

We've reached a new low in dragon discussions.

[truthseeker68]

So far......I'm still waiting..????

I've heard nothing but hearsay and one paticular belief that Dragons are intelligent god-like beings that live for eons....sounds alot like a FAIRYTALE to me....

Oh and by the way DC....I said IF someone actually slayed a dragon....because IF they were real you are correct in the assumption that they would be difficult to kill. Especially since they would know when your coming...being psychic and all. Not to mention they could probably just disappear into thin air if you got too close.

Kinda like that giant penguin I chase every weekend....I'll catch him one day, you'll see

[catutie]

ok so here is a new thought DC. people in the "dark ages" say dragons ummm lets see about everyday...well thats what they said. and people were eaten by dragons and people slayed dragons (which my friend....we would have bones if that happened) and people ate dragon for dinner. THE POINT BEING that why dont we run into them today. is it that thye fly so high that we cant see them??? well then they arnt on earth are they??? which means that they probably died off right??? or are they still hiding in the forests??? impossible. with how big they are claimed to be......they WOULD be the size of the forest.

[aquatus1]

The truth is that there have never been such things as dragons. They were actually ifrit who made themselves look like dragons. When DC is talking about dragons, he is actually talking about Ifrits, even though he doesn't know it.

That's why the "dragons" age unbelievably slowly, can die, though not easily, can disappear, don't breed too often, can live in places without affecting the environment, are intelligent, and have been around since the beginning of time.

They aren't dragons. They are genie.

[chaoszerg]

ok so here is a new thought DC. people in the "dark ages" say dragons ummm lets see about everyday...well thats what they said. and people were eaten by dragons and people slayed dragons (which my friend....we would have bones if that happened) and people ate dragon for dinner. THE POINT BEING that why dont we run into them today. is it that thye fly so high that we cant see them??? well then they arnt on earth are they??? which means that they probably died off right??? or are they still hiding in the forests??? impossible. with how big they are claimed to be......they WOULD be the size of the forest.

Good grief you are about to open up a can of nonsense, now we are going to hear the claims of them beings Gods and being magical and changing form, or turning invisible or eating witnesses so that's why we never hear about them these days.

[aquatus1]

Good grief you are about to open up a can of nonsense, now we are going to hear the claims of them beings Gods and being magical and changing form, or turning invisible or eating witnesses so that's why we never hear about them these days.

And we weren't before?

[catutie]

it was already open....it was opened quickly by DC lol. dragons are impossible.

[chaoszerg]

And we weren't before?

Yes but it had died down a little, but now history is about top repeat itself.

[truthseeker68]

It's inevitable that we will be discussing this subject for as long as DC and his supporters continue to claim that Dragons are and were among us. I think that if they want to believe this to be true then more power to them...but I for one do not believe (although I would love to see some proof) and probably never will.

Unfortunately Dragons, Fairies, Goblins, Unicorns and the like....never existed except in the imagination of humans. Regardless of the claims that Billions and Billions of people have seen, touched, procreated, and eaten these fairytale creatures there is NO real evidence that they ever existed.

Please understand that I wish they did....and as I have stated....if some real evidence were brought forth I would be on the bandwagon as quick as you can say Santa Claus.