Farmer77 Posted April 21, 2009 #251 Share Posted April 21, 2009 So do you see hate speeches a problem?? is it OK to spout hate at people???<-------------just a question While it is despicable, it is our right as an american citizen to speak our minds. Even if what we are saying is offensive. Even "hate speech" should be protected under free speech. Hate speech is too loose of a term for our government to try and regulate. While I don't agree with the words they are using I will defend their right to use them, be it gay bashers, nazis, black panthers, muslims, athiests, communists whatever because as soon as you limit THEIR ability to speak freely you are endangering YOUR ability to do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam12six Posted April 21, 2009 #252 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Yes you have a right to hate what ever you want we have that right as well and yes we can voice it. However when hate speech threats someone well being than it is against the law plain and simple. Just as if I threatened or inticed people to kill the president because he allowed gay marrage would I be in trouble or am I allowed to threaten the presidents life because I hate what he stands for. As I said, as long as you don't suggest anyone do anything illegal then you should be able to say whatever you want. I can give a speech saying, "I believe AIDS is God's judgement on gay people and that he's killing them here and will punish them forever after." I can even go as far as to say, "I can't wait until it's run it's course and finished them all off.", and that is protected. But, should I say, "So if any of you have access to the HIV virus and some syringes, poking a couple of gay people would be doing the Lord's work", then I'm breaking the law. I assume we're discussing these mysterious people in prison in Canada for saying whatever it is they said. I don't know what they said, but I know in the US you have the right to say anything you want as long as you don't suggest someone break the law. Even spreading hate by saying "gays are coming over the border and taking all the jobs so we should all hate them is protected. " - as long as you don't say we should hate them and suggest doing something illegal with that hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted April 21, 2009 #253 Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) While it is despicable, it is our right as an american citizen to speak our minds. Even if what we are saying is offensive. Even "hate speech" Well if you feel you have a given right...to show hate...........would you just outright post up on a public notice board...you have hate for certain races??? would you even go as far as to use the wrong words....like we all know the N word (for example) is OFF LIMITS...regardless how you wish as an american to use your hate speeches............would you do it?? The above is a hypothetical and fair question................so would you?? As for me NOPE.......cuz I know there is a limit to this so alled freedom of speech The law will tell you NO.....and regardless what you wish to believe is your right to speak of hate....you will still land in hot water for it now if you had rights to promote hate.....then you wouldnt land in hot water I agree people have the right to hate who ever they want and tell them they hate them if they wish or that they wish for them to drop dead, but I don't think it should be allowed for people to try and create or spread hatred to others so that they will go around spreading hate. The above, same question to you lOL again I must stress is it a fair question Edited April 21, 2009 by Beckys_Mom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaoszerg Posted April 21, 2009 #254 Share Posted April 21, 2009 The above, same question to you lOL again I must stress is it a fair question If I wanted to tell someone I hate there guts and hope they die then yes I have a right to say it even if I do land in hot water for it, but I don't have the right to go gather a bunch of people and then tell them so and so is bad and that we should go kill that person because that is using hate to spread it to others to do harm, then I should be punished for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted April 21, 2009 #255 Share Posted April 21, 2009 If I wanted to tell someone I hate there guts and hope they die then yes I have a right to say it even if I do land in hot water for it, but I don't have the right to go gather a bunch of people and then tell them so and so is bad and that we should go kill that person because that is using hate to spread it to others to do harm, then I should be punished for it. You have picked me up wrong lol.....I asked it in the sense that the law says its wrong to use it against IE - a different race or culture...or gays on how they live their lives.........so again would you do it to show you are a bigot?? (not saying you are one, its just hypothetical) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Posted April 21, 2009 #256 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Yes you have a right to hate what ever you want we have that right as well and yes we can voice it. However when hate speech threats someone well being than it is against the law plain and simple. Just as if I threatened or inticed people to kill the president because he allowed gay marrage would I be in trouble or am I allowed to threaten the presidents life because I hate what he stands for. Knock Knock Mr Thong are you home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaoszerg Posted April 21, 2009 #257 Share Posted April 21, 2009 You have picked me up wrong lol.....I asked it in the sense that the law says its wrong to use it against IE - a different race or culture...or gays on how they live their lives.........so again would you do it to show you are a bigot?? D'OH!!!! No I would not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted April 21, 2009 #258 Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) Well if you feel you have a given right...to show hate...........would you just outright post up on a public notice board...you have hate for certain races??? would you even go as far as to use the wrong words....like we all know the N word (for example) is OFF LIMITS...regardless how you wish as an american to use your hate speeches............would you do it?? The above is a hypothetical and fair question................so would you?? As for me NOPE.......cuz I know there is a limit to this so alled freedom of speech The law will tell you NO.....and regardless what you wish to believe is your right to speak of hate....you will still land in hot water for it now if you had rights to promote hate.....then you wouldnt land in hot water The above, same question to you lOL again I must stress is it a fair question I am not proud to admit I have used that word plenty in my troubled, violent, idiotic past. Now though I can't imagine a time when I would wish to harm someone so much with my words that I could. However hypothetically absolutely and should any legal trouble come my way I would enlist the ACLU to help with my defense. Because again, it is my constitutional right to say whatever stupid crap I want. My original point still stands: once you start governing the speech of others, all speech is in danger and that is unacceptable. Edited April 21, 2009 by bigtroutak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted April 21, 2009 #259 Share Posted April 21, 2009 , it is my constitutional right to say whatever stupid crap I want. They say you have it........but in reality.....if you go to show hate to a gay person and chant hate at them...you will land in hot water...WHY?? because you dont really have the right....they can sue you for harrassment and abuse... If you had a right.......then they would not be able to touch you for any hate you like to shout at them...see what I am saying?....there was a time when it was ok to use so many slang words...now its not...walking on egg shells EVERYWHERE....this is fact D'OH!!!! No I would not. LOL good man yourself....anyone with sense would not do it either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted April 21, 2009 #260 Share Posted April 21, 2009 There is a fine line here. Quoting a religious text is one thing but when they use it to promote hate and preach hate to a group of people it becomes a hate crime. What can you not see here? It's like the KKK. They quote the Bible when it comes to homosexuality and call for all sorts of horrible things to happen to them. That's a hate crime. I live in America, the KKK is legaly protected to say what ever they want. No KKK member in America has ever been arrested for the words that came from his mouth. That my friend is FREEDOM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Silver Thong Posted April 21, 2009 #261 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Knock Knock Mr Thong are you home Holy Toledo, that was quick............ zoink..........I'm outa here LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted April 21, 2009 #262 Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) Nooooooooo the people in the video are playing DUMB.......they know fine well their ideas and words are HATEFUL towards gays.......but they just think, that if they use their bible, that makes their hate OK...........and freedom of speech has its limits - EVERYONE knows this.......you can have freedom of speech...but when that speech uses HATE towards a race or ones way of life...it is HATE like it or not..... LOL, remember Im the one who lives here. You cant show me a single American court case where a person was inprisioned for hate speach. NOT ONE. Dont tell me what freedom of speach is, we invented it. Edited April 21, 2009 by preacherman76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted April 21, 2009 #263 Share Posted April 21, 2009 So do you see hate speeches a problem?? is it OK to spout hate at people???<-------------just a question I see legislation against hate speech a problem. And so do you, you just dont know it. You spout hate tward anything you dont like, especialy regarding Christians, bet you dont think you should be locked up for it. Neither do I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted April 21, 2009 #264 Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) LOL, remember Im the one who lives here. You cant show me a single American court case where a person was imprision for hate speach. NOT ONE. Dont tell me what freedom of speach is, we invented it. YOU didnt invent freedom of speech LOL......but in reality...you are told you have it...but the law says likewise that is fact...not just in the USA...in so many places it is fact...we all walk on egg shells...not nice....but those are the breaks If you had real freedom of speech...no one can touch you for ever shouting hate at someone for IE - being gay.........<----but see thats not how it is....for now you can go to court and jail for hate crimes FACT...sorry but it is fact Edited April 21, 2009 by Beckys_Mom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt_Ripley Posted April 21, 2009 #265 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I live in America, the KKK is legaly protected to say what ever they want. No KKK member in America has ever been arrested for the words that came from his mouth. That my friend is FREEDOM. bet that white sheet looks good on you too ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__Kratos__ Posted April 21, 2009 #266 Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) bet that white sheet looks good on you too ! *shows off my white sheet* Really brings out my broad shoulders! *poses some more* Sexy! Point he was making that even hate speech is free speech, not that he was for the KKK. Edited April 21, 2009 by __Kratos__ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted April 21, 2009 #267 Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) YOU didnt invent freedom of speech LOL......but in reality...you are told you have it...but the law says likewise that is fact...not just in the USA...in so many places it is fact...we all walk on egg shells...not nice....but those are the breaks If you had real freedom of speech...no one can touch you for ever shouting hate at someone for IE - being gay.........<----but see thats not how it is....for now you can go to court and jail for hate crimes FACT...sorry but it is fact What are you talking about? NO ONE in AMERICA has EVER been convicted of a hate speech crime EVER. Edited April 21, 2009 by preacherman76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt_Ripley Posted April 21, 2009 #268 Share Posted April 21, 2009 As I said, as long as you don't suggest anyone do anything illegal then you should be able to say whatever you want. I can give a speech saying, "I believe AIDS is God's judgement on gay people and that he's killing them here and will punish them forever after." I can even go as far as to say, "I can't wait until it's run it's course and finished them all off.", and that is protected. But, should I say, "So if any of you have access to the HIV virus and some syringes, poking a couple of gay people would be doing the Lord's work", then I'm breaking the law. I assume we're discussing these mysterious people in prison in Canada for saying whatever it is they said. I don't know what they said, but I know in the US you have the right to say anything you want as long as you don't suggest someone break the law. Even spreading hate by saying "gays are coming over the border and taking all the jobs so we should all hate them is protected. " - as long as you don't say we should hate them and suggest doing something illegal with that hate. People can say what they want it's true... for instance I think christians like other religions are sheep and just as smart. That religion keeps them from rational thinking as evident by proposition eight . That their made up idea of God is about as real as winnie the pooh. and Jesus really was a BJ giving gay man. same difference. But should I push for laws that they should be kept from believing as much ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt_Ripley Posted April 21, 2009 #269 Share Posted April 21, 2009 *shows off my white sheet* Really brings out my broad shoulders! *poses some more* Sexy! Point he was making that even hate speech is free speech, not that he was for the KKK. lol sexy shoulders... yes free speech , but not alot of difference between what comes out of his mouth and the KKK or skin heads. all he lacks is a sheet and a membership into the brotherhood ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rastaman Posted April 21, 2009 #270 Share Posted April 21, 2009 You spout hate tward anything you dont like TALK ABOUT IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam12six Posted April 22, 2009 #271 Share Posted April 22, 2009 (edited) People can say what they want it's true... for instance I think christians like other religions are sheep and just as smart. That religion keeps them from rational thinking as evident by proposition eight . That their made up idea of God is about as real as winnie the pooh. and Jesus really was a BJ giving gay man. same difference. But should I push for laws that they should be kept from believing as much ? I totally agree with you and I don't see why so many people can't understand the distinction here. I think maybe it's an American thing. Maybe we've just grown up in an environment where free speech is cherished and understand that making it illegal to say hateful things is a slippery slope because it puts the infrastructure in place for authorities to declare anything hateful, therefore it threatens all freedom of speech. Well if you feel you have a given right...to show hate...........would you just outright post up on a public notice board...you have hate for certain races??? would you even go as far as to use the wrong words....like we all know the N word (for example) is OFF LIMITS...regardless how you wish as an american to use your hate speeches............would you do it?? The above is a hypothetical and fair question................so would you?? As for me NOPE.......cuz I know there is a limit to this so alled freedom of speech The law will tell you NO.....and regardless what you wish to believe is your right to speak of hate....you will still land in hot water for it now if you had rights to promote hate.....then you wouldnt land in hot water BM, if you're asking whether I personally hate any particular group or culture, I'll say no (but with the kids who wear their pants around their knees, I'm close ), but if you're asking whether I would publicly let my opinion be known if I did, then sure. US law does not make it illegal to say the N word. That's the whole point. You don't (and shouldn't) get in any hot water legally for saying you hate someone or something. As for someone being able to sue you for saying the N word, sure they can. They can sue you because they think you've painted your house an ugly color too, but making it a criminal offense to use ugly colors (like ugly words) is a fascist move because then someone gets to decide what colors are ugly - in other words, once such a law is on the books, it's easy to "aim" it at someone you disagree with. I'll say it again, it's not illegal to feel a certain way (even to hate someone). It's not, and shouldn't be, illegal to tell people you feel this way. This is freedom. Passing laws blocking gay people from getting married or passing laws saying it's illegal to tell someone you hate them is the same thing. It's trying to use the law to force other people to live their lives based on the moral standards you have set for yourself, and that is wrong. I think you're either confusing political correctness with criminalization, in which case we're just aiming at different targets, or you're saying you believe that political correctness should be enforceable by law. If it's the latter, then I just disagree. Edit: It's sort of funny, but aside from the first page or so this entire thread is one big hijack. The thread was "look what these idiots believe" and turned into "should we criminalize free speech?" Not cogent to the discussion (which is very interesting), I just thought it was amusing... Edited April 22, 2009 by sam12six Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted April 22, 2009 #272 Share Posted April 22, 2009 BM, if you're asking whether I personally hate any particular group or culture, I'll say no (but with the kids who wear their pants around their knees, I'm close ), but if you're asking whether I would publicly let my opinion be known if I did, then sure. ... No that is not what I was asking lol.......I was laying it out as a hypothetical question......I asked IF..you felt hate for a certain race...or gays........would you think it was fine for you to say so without getting into hot water??? Freedom of speech is just a cover......for in reality...you can get taken to court for expressing any hate speeches, if the victim of your hate chants wishes to sue you for harrassment and hate crimes Yes this is very much fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted April 22, 2009 #273 Share Posted April 22, 2009 What are you talking about? NO ONE in AMERICA has EVER been convicted of a hate speech crime EVER. Oh yeah?? Allow me to introduce...........Mr Fred Phelps..... http://crooksandliars.com/2007/11/02/rev-f...t-cries-hogwash Being sued and loosing his court case....WHY??? well he didnt have his freedom of speech to chant HATE at funerals now did he?? Churches condemn Westboro hate speech, but challenge remains [Readers will recall the the exploits of Fred Phelps and family who picketed the funeral of Matthew Brady after he had been killed in a "queer-bashing" incident in 1998, announcing that "he was burning in hell."] The group is well known for its "God hates fags" posters. It recently lost a court case in Maryland, when it picketed the funeral of a dead soldier, and was sued by his father. Mathhew Snyder's father won US $5 million. The church has been ordered to post bond of more than $500,000 in property, including the church building (which is also home to leader Fred Phelps Sr) and the Phelps Chartered law office building. you were saying ? ---> http://www.morristaggart.com/exploring_the...ge-remains.html I think you need to re-think that no one has ever been convicted for hate speeches Now if your country had a right and the freedom to do it then poor Freddy was wrongly convicted and should appeal LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted April 22, 2009 #274 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Oh yeah?? Allow me to introduce...........Mr Fred Phelps..... http://crooksandliars.com/2007/11/02/rev-f...t-cries-hogwash Being sued and loosing his court case....WHY??? well he didnt have his freedom of speech to chant HATE at funerals now did he?? Churches condemn Westboro hate speech, but challenge remains [Readers will recall the the exploits of Fred Phelps and family who picketed the funeral of Matthew Brady after he had been killed in a "queer-bashing" incident in 1998, announcing that "he was burning in hell."] The group is well known for its "God hates fags" posters. It recently lost a court case in Maryland, when it picketed the funeral of a dead soldier, and was sued by his father. Mathhew Snyder's father won US $5 million. The church has been ordered to post bond of more than $500,000 in property, including the church building (which is also home to leader Fred Phelps Sr) and the Phelps Chartered law office building. you were saying ? ---> http://www.morristaggart.com/exploring_the...ge-remains.html I think you need to re-think that no one has ever been convicted for hate speeches Now if your country had a right and the freedom to do it then poor Freddy was wrongly convicted and should appeal LOL That is a civil matter, not a CRIMINAL matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relle Posted April 22, 2009 #275 Share Posted April 22, 2009 There is usually a huge police presence when the KKK are involved. They walk a fine line. Just like that Phelps guy! He was going to picket a funeral here a while back. The RCMP did a good job of keeping them away. And if they failed, there was a huge crowd waiting to stop them. Anyway, I'm proud to live in a country where you can be who you are and not feel threatened by it. If people want to talk, well sticks and stones my friend. But the minute that someone starts to gather their friends and tell them that God says it's okay to kill fags, well then that's a problem. What would happen if someone started distributing material to gain support and awareness on the evils of Christianity? That if a Christian is seen walking the streets it's okay to beat them or kill them? Would that be okay? I don't think so. As long as no one is preaching that it's okay to harm a gay person things are fine, well not fine, but I think you know what I mean. It's when those people start calling for harm to come to them that we have a criminal problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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