2012

[allen_iverson]

just because the calender ends doesn't mean it to be the end but a beginning of a new era that's what i think it means a new cycle

[The Worlds Wolf]

to be a new Era means there has to be an end to the old one yes? what alters will be made are unknown. rather it was something they felt was special then to stop the counting.. or if they just got tired or died before finishing. i always heard the mayans were good with stuff like that and predictions of smaller things.

[MeteoricErod]

Is it me or is it that its not just christianity that predicted the 2012 events.

i mean it seems this whole thing was started off by the Mayan Religion then it seems everyone else was quick to jump in. wouldnt it be odd if it did happen. wouldnt that proove the mayan religion and other pagan beliefs true? also to me it seems most of the events would be caused by our own demise. another thing if christianity has all these events that come one by one um wouldnt the first and second one be enough to wipe out the planet? i find it funny they say that people would gather their armys at the end.. WHAT ARMYS? we would be dead. or too frightened to fight back anyway seriously. im just a bit lost in this idea of events. i think it will be one or two events. mostly one led because of the other. such as astroid hitting then causing cosmic winter like the Jerrasic Era. im not the smartest guy on this topic which is why im questioning.

im still alil skeptical about the definition of how people are defining what will happen. same for it happening in the first place as well.

Uhmm...there is no such thing as a Mayan Religion. The Maya were a race of people. Just thought I should point that out.

[TheSearcher]

OK just so that we are all clear on what the rapture is and where it came from. The concept of the rapture, was expressed by the American Puritan father and son Increase and Cotton Mather. They held to the idea that believers would be caught up in the air, followed by judgments on the earth and then the millennium. The term rapture was used by Philip Doddridge (1738) and John Gill (1748) in their New Testament commentaries, with the idea that believers would be caught up prior to judgment on the earth and Jesus' Second Coming. The concept of a pretribulation rapture was articulated by Baptist Morgan Edwards in an essay published in 1788 in Philadelphia.

The Catholic and Orthodox churches as well as the Reformed denominations have no tradition of a preliminary return of Christ and reject the doctrine, in part because they cannot find any reference to it among any of the early Church fathers and find its biblical foundation weak. Some also reject it because they interpret prophetic scriptures in either an amillennial or postmillennial fashion.

So before 1730, the rapture did not exist, the term was unknown in that particular interpretation. Before 1730 it was most certainly not "Christian". Even now, it is only accepted by a scant minority.

Also, Christianity did not predict 2012, you can read the bible thru and thru (the oldest original texts if possible, because they are the purest form possible), you'll find nothing about 2012. You'll find the apocalypse, yes, but there again only signs are mentioned, not a year or anything.

[Marby]

The Searcher saved me alot of typing by explaining the origins of the rapture, so I'm just going to gloss over Christian predictions and jump into the Mayan thing.

First of all, Christianity does not provide a date for the end of the world. Since the beginning of Christianity, there have been opportunists and madmen claiming that they know the end is coming within their lifetime, citing negative world events and natural disasters as proof that it's just around the corner. Guess what? The world has always been riddled with atrocity, and natural disasters have always happened. Anyone claiming to have the answers is either seriously insane or out to take advantage of gullible people. Sadly, people allow themselves to be fooled time and again because they are so desperate to be a part of something bigger than themselves, or are easily intimidated by what amounts to flawed or non existent logic.

The Mayan civilization never stated that 2012 would be the end of the world. They divided their calendar into "ages", and 2012 is just the end of one such "age". Modern interpretation by the same type of madman and opportunist that tells you the Christian apocalypse is happening next week have created this myth about the end coming in 2012. Why in the world are people taking a calendar created by a civilization that no longer exists as it did when the calendar was created seriously? They created the calendar with the idea that they would be around to use it, didn't they? Apparently, they failed to predict the more immediate problem of the conquistadores that would destroy them and assimilate the survivors into their own culture. Even the modern Mayan descendant doesn't give a flying fig about the Mayan calendar unless they are in an academic setting and studying it in that context. So why should any of us care?

People are so desperate to read into things that simply aren't there that they happily waste their time and money on the books and other material pertaining to this. What's sad is that when 2012 comes and goes, those same madmen and opportunists will find another date and those same people that fell for the 2012 garbage will fall for whatever else they are told.

[TheSearcher]

The Searcher saved me alot of typing by explaining the origins of the rapture, so I'm just going to gloss over Christian predictions and jump into the Mayan thing.

First of all, Christianity does not provide a date for the end of the world. Since the beginning of Christianity, there have been opportunists and madmen claiming that they know the end is coming within their lifetime, citing negative world events and natural disasters as proof that it's just around the corner. Guess what? The world has always been riddled with atrocity, and natural disasters have always happened. Anyone claiming to have the answers is either seriously insane or out to take advantage of gullible people. Sadly, people allow themselves to be fooled time and again because they are so desperate to be a part of something bigger than themselves, or are easily intimidated by what amounts to flawed or non existent logic.

The Mayan civilization never stated that 2012 would be the end of the world. They divided their calendar into "ages", and 2012 is just the end of one such "age". Modern interpretation by the same type of madman and opportunist that tells you the Christian apocalypse is happening next week have created this myth about the end coming in 2012. Why in the world are people taking a calendar created by a civilization that no longer exists as it did when the calendar was created seriously? They created the calendar with the idea that they would be around to use it, didn't they? Apparently, they failed to predict the more immediate problem of the conquistadores that would destroy them and assimilate the survivors into their own culture. Even the modern Mayan descendant doesn't give a flying fig about the Mayan calendar unless they are in an academic setting and studying it in that context. So why should any of us care?

People are so desperate to read into things that simply aren't there that they happily waste their time and money on the books and other material pertaining to this. What's sad is that when 2012 comes and goes, those same madmen and opportunists will find another date and those same people that fell for the 2012 garbage will fall for whatever else they are told.

Glad to be of service, I got a tad upset when I read rapture = christian, so I thought that the facts should be straightened out.

And good point about the mayan calandar.

[Marby]

Glad to be of service, I got a tad upset when I read rapture = christian, so I thought that the facts should be straightened out.

And good point about the mayan calandar.

Thanks. It just continually blows my mind that people are so accepting of things just because they are told. They never bother to do the research behind it.

[WhiteyAus]

21 December 2012 is the end of one cycle of the long count in the Mayan Calendars. I was told that people are only scared of this end of cycle is because it is the 13th change (13 being the unlucky number), but thats just one theory. I do believe that the mayans did have a larger knowledge of the stars and space than most civilizations especially since they knew certain things without the use of telescopes and such.

The end of the long count cycle is going to offer a new change which i believe will come from outer space, whether or not it will be the end of the world is up to your own opinion.

Something will happen though

[Marby]

21 December 2012 is the end of one cycle of the long count in the Mayan Calendars. I was told that people are only scared of this end of cycle is because it is the 13th change (13 being the unlucky number), but thats just one theory. I do believe that the mayans did have a larger knowledge of the stars and space than most civilizations especially since they knew certain things without the use of telescopes and such.

The end of the long count cycle is going to offer a new change which i believe will come from outer space, whether or not it will be the end of the world is up to your own opinion.

Something will happen though

Thing is, the number 13 and its unlucky connotations have nothing to do with the Mayan Calendar. The superstition regarding the number started with the Knights Templar before Europe was even aware of Mayans. So, the attachment that people place on the 13th "change" being negative in regards to the Mayan Calendar is completely modern and borne of silly superstition. So right there, the fear that people have of the "change" that they feel is coming in 2012 is unfounded.

A lot of civilizations that came before us had extensive knowledge of astronomy. They also attached a lot of superstitions to it to explain that which they did not understand about their findings. Why should we expect "something" to happen based on the calendar of a civilization that was wiped out/assimilated centuries ago, and whose understanding of astronomy, while pretty impressive, was still wrapped in very unscientific superstition? Why should we expect "something" to happen based on astronomical calculations? It's really no different than believing, as many people used to believe, that an eclipse is an evil omen.

All this hype about 2012 is doing is just that - hype. No one cares about anything else the Mayans did, but that calendar is suddenly so important that it will affect our lives in 2012? Think about it. It is nothing more than a way to make money for a lot of people selling books on the subject.

Edited July 6, 2009 by Marby

[Shego]

21 December 2012 is the end of one cycle of the long count in the Mayan Calendars. I was told that people are only scared of this end of cycle is because it is the 13th change (13 being the unlucky number), but thats just one theory. I do believe that the mayans did have a larger knowledge of the stars and space than most civilizations especially since they knew certain things without the use of telescopes and such.

The end of the long count cycle is going to offer a new change which i believe will come from outer space, whether or not it will be the end of the world is up to your own opinion.

Something will happen though

They just didn't feel like continuing the calendar.

D:

If you were writing a calendar, you would start to get tried of seeing the same crap every time.

Over and over each year.

[The Worlds Wolf]

So yeah im starting to think this is beloney (should of thaught that sooner). if aything was to happen in 2012 screw a Astroid, the worse thing to happen in 2012 Sarah Palin gets president XD.

[Cadaver]

I'll be laughing when nothing happens in 2012, and everyone is panicking.

[Llucid]

So before 1730, the rapture did not exist, the term was unknown in that particular interpretation. Before 1730 it was most certainly not "Christian". Even now, it is only accepted by a scant minority.

"For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the Tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins"

(On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World, by Ephraem the Syrian, A.D. 373)

While there is some debate about the above text, some believe that it does show evidence of members of the early church subscribing to a "rapture" event.

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage each other with these words." - 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (NIV)

It's not important that the word "rapture" is not in the Bible, rather it is the concept that is important. It's a translation thing. The word "Bible" isn't in the Bible either. The word "rapture" is from the Latin word "rapturo" which is derived from the (Greek) verb "caught up" in the above verse. The debate isn't if there is a rapture event or not, rather it is when the rapture event takes place. And for the record, there is more than just a scant minority of Christians that believe in a pre-trib rapture. Around my area, it is the dominant belief. Just look at the popularity of the Left Behind series.

Sorry, just wanted to offer my view of the rapture stuff. As for the year 2012, I will attest that there is no prophecy in the Bible concerning this specific date. Considering that Christians who subscribe to the 70th week of Daniel belief (tribulation), then 2012 can't be the end of the world, since the tribulation hasn't started and it is seven years long. The tribulation won't begin until Israel signs a seven year peace deal with it's enemies.

[Sperivleck]

I'm going to explain this mildly fast...

The Mayans predicted this event with a stone calendar, as did so called Nostradamus

But.. The Mayans never truly picked a date, they just stopped on that day. Hell, maybe the guy that worked the calendar got tired of it and said **** it, there's enough numbers on here to last out our own existence, im sure future beings will have more technology by then. But not only that, the Mayans were also wiped out by a moronic secondary tribe with clubs and rocks, so basically, if they can predict the end of the world, why cant they see 10 thousand barely clothed men running up the side of the hill? lol

And as for Nostradamus... He was an old man, ho was not only said to be crazy, but also died unexpectedly. So again, predicts the end of the world, but has no idea when even he, himself, is going to die..

Anywho, not saying this disproves the whole theory, just saying its something to keep in mind

[ValkyrieVoice]

Is it me or is it that its not just christianity that predicted the 2012 events.

i mean it seems this whole thing was started off by the Mayan Religion then it seems everyone else was quick to jump in. wouldnt it be odd if it did happen. wouldnt that proove the mayan religion and other pagan beliefs true? also to me it seems most of the events would be caused by our own demise. another thing if christianity has all these events that come one by one um wouldnt the first and second one be enough to wipe out the planet? i find it funny they say that people would gather their armys at the end.. WHAT ARMYS? we would be dead. or too frightened to fight back anyway seriously. im just a bit lost in this idea of events. i think it will be one or two events. mostly one led because of the other. such as astroid hitting then causing cosmic winter like the Jerrasic Era. im not the smartest guy on this topic which is why im questioning.

im still alil skeptical about the definition of how people are defining what will happen. same for it happening in the first place as well.

I truly believe that 2012 will be a spiritual awakening period only. I don't believe it's going to be the end of the world as we know it.

[TheSearcher]

It's not important that the word "rapture" is not in the Bible, rather it is the concept that is important. It's a translation thing. The word "Bible" isn't in the Bible either. The word "rapture" is from the Latin word "rapturo" which is derived from the (Greek) verb "caught up" in the above verse. The debate isn't if there is a rapture event or not, rather it is when the rapture event takes place. And for the record, there is more than just a scant minority of Christians that believe in a pre-trib rapture. Around my area, it is the dominant belief. Just look at the popularity of the Left Behind series.

I did not say that the bible does not talk about it, I said, the term rapture was used by Philip Doddridge (1738) and John Gill (1748) in their New Testament commentaries, with the idea that believers would be caught up prior to judgment on the earth and Jesus' Second Coming. I also said the Catholic and Orthodox churches as well as the Reformed denominations have no tradition of a preliminary return of Christ and reject the doctrine, in part because they cannot find any reference to it among any of the early Church fathers and find its biblical foundation weak.

If I may ask, what is your area? Because if Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant churches as well as most reformed denominations reject the doctrine as describded, from their dogma, any other christian church following this doctrine is a minority. Maybe not in your neck of the woods, but globally it is.

And what is the Left Behind series? I honestly have never heard of it, sorry.

[jordiver]

One question... who said or extracted out the info or how much confidence is there in the dates proposed? i dont know and would like some more info about it, cause ive always read the maya calendar started in -3114 or something like that, how are they so sure when it started to say its the 21th of december or the 23th , etc...?

then only end of the world i know about for sure is when our sun foocks up, all other is just suppositions...

[Llucid]

I did not say that the bible does not talk about it, I said, the term rapture was used by Philip Doddridge (1738) and John Gill (1748) in their New Testament commentaries, with the idea that believers would be caught up prior to judgment on the earth and Jesus' Second Coming. I also said the Catholic and Orthodox churches as well as the Reformed denominations have no tradition of a preliminary return of Christ and reject the doctrine, in part because they cannot find any reference to it among any of the early Church fathers and find its biblical foundation weak.

If I may ask, what is your area? Because if Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant churches as well as most reformed denominations reject the doctrine as describded, from their dogma, any other christian church following this doctrine is a minority. Maybe not in your neck of the woods, but globally it is.

And what is the Left Behind series? I honestly have never heard of it, sorry.

Well, if one were to specify that the rapture event is "prior to judgment on the earth and Jesus' Second Coming", then you would be correct, only a small percentage of Christians (world-wide) believe this. This actual view of the rapture is known as the pre-tribulation view.

My area is the United States, where I am a Southern Baptist, which is the largest protestant denomination here.

The Left Behind series is a group of novels concerning the rapture. It rests largely on the work of prophecy scholar Tim LaHaye. I am not advocating the accuracy of the story concerning Biblical prophecy, but merely pointing out it's popularity, which has sold over 65 million books in the series. LaHaye's view of the rapture can be described as premillenial dispensationalist pretribulation futurism.

[WhiteyAus]

One question... who said or extracted out the info or how much confidence is there in the dates proposed? i dont know and would like some more info about it, cause ive always read the maya calendar started in -3114 or something like that, how are they so sure when it started to say its the 21th of december or the 23th , etc...?

then only end of the world i know about for sure is when our sun foocks up, all other is just suppositions...

Well there is alot of confidence about the mayan calendar and in 2012 is the end of their long count, idk if its exactly on 21st of decemeber. IF you want more info about watch Nostradamus 2012 or 2012 science or suspistion. They seemed pretty good but a nostradamus one is a tad biased to the end of the world side (to probably get more ratings).

And yeh one theory is that the sun will fock up and produce solar winds which would fock up our atmosphere, another is that the galactic shift will cause a disrupt in communication and stuff and then obviously which is bound to happen anyway that bad weather condition such as extreme heat, hurricanes, earthquakes and tsunamis and possible volcanoes. Those are the scientific explanations ive heard take from it what you will

[KRS-One]

I truly believe that 2012 will be a spiritual awakening period only. I don't believe it's going to be the end of the world as we know it.

That's unfortunate. Why?

As an aside, do you believe that you will be among those spiritually enlightened or those trampled beneath the socio-political repercussions that such an event would cause and why?