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Sho_Sho

Miss CA in hot water

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Michelle

You little devil... :P

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eqgumby
At the end of the day, I still think they should be allowed to talk freely but I'm doubting I'm going to agree that I have to agree with them. I'm quite open to freedom of expression.

Just gotta cut through the bs and get to the root. Her opinion is rooted in her christian beliefs she was raised with. I find it hard to believe that people just don't look over the bible and see it's very anti-homosexual in both the OT and NT.

Yes, the bible is very anti-homosexual. So? That's STILL not what this is about.

The logic that speaking out against a minority to single them out for discrimination is wrong?

You're assuming a minority is being singled out. You assume a lot, because you're approaching it from an anti-religion stance, automatically making assumptions. You are not applying any logic to it. You're saying what you know people you wish to please will want, or what you know people you wish to displease won't want to hear.

She has no problem using her beliefs to be against gay marriage and the cloth argument is just the next chapter of that very same book. Or if you go into the NT into Romans, you'll see she's still a hypocrite for being who she is in the contest for everyday things. Either way, the bottle line is she's a hypocrite.

Your "OT" arguments are presumptive and have been shot down before. They don't hold up. People eat shellfish, and don't shun women on their period too. So what? You're being obtuse and childish. It's a tired old argument.

Didn't Iowa just do that?

No, the argument you refer to is, "Is it illegal to pass a law that discriminates". What we are talking about are existing laws and their interpretation.

Yeah, because my disagreeing with someone else's opinion must be wrong.

No, because your vilifying someone who has a different opinion than yours! Don't you get get? You can't make someones belief a crime, because YOU disagree with it!

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DarkNova@
You can't make someones belief a crime, because YOU disagree with it!

Nicely said IMO.

It goes for both sides.

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__Kratos__
Yes, the bible is very anti-homosexual. So? That's STILL not what this is about.

She's speaking as a christian, as she was raised by her family christian. Maybe you missed the comment when she said she was raised that way?

You're assuming a minority is being singled out. You assume a lot, because you're approaching it from an anti-religion stance, automatically making assumptions. You are not applying any logic to it. You're saying what you know people you wish to please will want, or what you know people you wish to displease won't want to hear.

You don't feel that gays are being singled out in America? Let's just look at Cali quick... Prop 8 from last year is a big headline. Using basic skills to see that one connects with the other isn't going against logic or reason but using it to look at a situation in a different light rather then just the comments on the first layer.

Your "OT" arguments are presumptive and have been shot down before. They don't hold up. People eat shellfish, and don't shun women on their period too. So what? You're being obtuse and childish. It's a tired old argument.

She's using her beliefs to form her opinions, that's what. I even brought up the NT (book of Romans as an example) to see that she's even a hypocrite there to. She's against gay marriage despite in the very same chapter of the anti-homosexual verse, she's sinning. That's what makes her a hypocrite and that's what makes her a bigot.

Say I'm a skin head once, and that I say that I'm against gay marriage just because of the way I was raised. Is that right or are you going to go after racists? It'd still be my opinion but where my opinion is formed and rooted from is a ideology of hatred and nonsense.

Bottom line is that if she's going to use her faith to make her opinions, her faith is going to come up in question as it's fair game.

No, the argument you refer to is, "Is it illegal to pass a law that discriminates". What we are talking about are existing laws and their interpretation.

Existing laws are always changing and gay marriage has been already legalized in a handful of states with more looking into it.

No, because your vilifying someone who has a different opinion than yours! Don't you get get? You can't make someones belief a crime, because YOU disagree with it!

Never said I wanted it to be a crime, I said I disagreed with it. Big difference. You seem to have a habit of just making stuff up about me almost every time we discuss in the same thread. That's what is getting 'childish' here.

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village_idiot
Oh no...why don't we just add this little incident to the growing pile of morons who are so scared of gays and feel threatened by them. Everyone's entitled to his or her own opinion but, god forbid, journalists and paparazzi leave it at that....I make statements about things like this all the time and you don't see my dumb *** on the cover of every tabloid across America...

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Bear's Quest

It was an entirely innappropriate question for a beauty contestant to answer.

If any of the other finalist was ask this question, they would of lost the crown -It surely was a loaded question, "You're damned in any way you answer it."

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Michelle

Kratos, to be fair...you expect, for someone to be a Christian, to follow a how many year old book? You spend a vast amount of time quoting that book saying that you can't be a real Christian without believing and carrying out every WORD of it!!!

That's a HUGE flaw in your logic. We HAVE to vote for a president every four years...do you totally and blindly believe what the candidates tell you? It doesn't matter who you vote for...according to YOU it's all or nothing.

If you don't mind...I'd rather keep my individuality and not be lumped into a pack of crap.

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__Kratos__
Kratos, to be fair...you expect, for someone to be a Christian, to follow a how many year old book? You spend a vast amount of time quoting that book saying that you can't be a real Christian without believing and carrying out every WORD of it!!!

That's a HUGE flaw in your logic. We HAVE to vote for a president every four years...do you totally and blindly believe what the candidates tell you? It doesn't matter who you vote for...according to YOU it's all or nothing.

If you don't mind...I'd rather keep my individuality and not be lumped into a pack of crap.

In this case, I do. The anti-homosexual verses I'm pointing to are in the very same area that she's sinning from. She's against one but does the other freely, that's my issue with that.

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Michelle
In this case, I do. The anti-homosexual verses I'm pointing to are in the very same area that she's sinning from. She's against one but does the other freely, that's my issue with that.

No, it's not just in this case and please don't make me prove it.

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Wickian
I also respect the rights of private companies. This isn't a free speech issue because of that. She voiced her opinions and they didn't match up to what they wanted in a role model. I would assume that's why they ask questions to the girls to know where they stand on things so they know what to pick.

She's gotten more air time and publicity over this whine fest then even Miss America has. I don't even know who the Miss America is but I know her.

Backed by a huge support of christians and other believers.

The majority shouldn't oppress the rights of a minority. Aren't we all suppose to be equal in America?

Unfortunately this hasn't been true since the country was founded. The Founding Fathers openly admitted that Democracy is a flawed system where 51% of the people bully the other 49%. It's simply the best option currently available...in my opinion.

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Michelle

In this case, I do. The anti-homosexual verses I'm pointing to are in the very same area that she's sinning from. She's against one but does the other freely, that's my issue with that.

[/quot

So, you expect Christians to blindly follow a book, like good little androids in your video games....without any free will?

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__Kratos__
No, it's not just in this case and please don't make me prove it.

I'm always open to proof that I'm wrong.

In this case, I do. The anti-homosexual verses I'm pointing to are in the very same area that she's sinning from. She's against one but does the other freely, that's my issue with that.

So, you expect Christians to blindly follow a book, like good little androids in your video games....without any free will?

Not all of it, as it was written by man but when you're forming your opinions from a book from that chapter and in the NT in the very same line, I would think that you would agree with that part at least. Unless you pick out out of all those other rules on the basis of being christian and the morality of how to act and solely ignore them all but slam homosexuals... Then that is just being a bigot.

Unfortunately this hasn't been true since the country was founded. The Founding Fathers openly admitted that Democracy is a flawed system where 51% of the people bully the other 49%. It's simply the best option currently available...in my opinion.

But the other 49% would still have their freedom and rights to be Americans regardless.

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Beckys_Mom

IMO...We all know that a religious belief is something that cannot be proved for actual fact

Yet, when we look at IE - Parents that due to a religious faith, did not allow their sick daughter to receive treatment, as a result, the young girl died..........parents where indeed charged....belief or no belief, when you let someone get hurt or die as a result of your beliefs, then the law WILL punish you

So ...we look at hate speeches.....anti gays..... too many like to hide behind a bible to spout such hate.........yet these same people, like to cry out - precaution the sec someone tells them to sling their hook for being preachy.....they cry looking rights....but they don’t care for other beliefs

What beliefs are those?? Well those that hold beliefs in slamming gays is WRONG and its a hurtful sad thing to do......do we hold a right to PROTEST their discriminating chants on gays?? do we??.........they would not like it done on to them

These same people have a saviour that clearly states - treat others how you wish to be treated........ohh and least we forget - Lest he be without sin, cast the 1st stone

and they ignore every word............pick and chose what to preach and skip the rest!!

A belief is fine...but when you use it to hurt others..its not fine...its sad and wrong

its almsot as bad as the woman that was up for shop lift and her defence was - Ohh I was PMSing LOL

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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roller3610
How did this Hilton guy get to be a judge? I thought you had to be some what famous?

That's what I'm wondering as well. He is known for being a filthy blogger. How does warrant the right to be a judge at Miss USA?

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The Sweater Song

Times' are changin folks, for the better. And thats all I have to say.

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momentarylapseofreason

While I may not agree with her, I feel she has a right to speak her mind and she should answer honestly.

I am really skeptical about PC, it's dishonest and it is strangling freedom of speech.

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Wickian
I'm always open to proof that I'm wrong.

So, you expect Christians to blindly follow a book, like good little androids in your video games....without any free will?

Not all of it, as it was written by man but when you're forming your opinions from a book from that chapter and in the NT in the very same line, I would think that you would agree with that part at least. Unless you pick out out of all those other rules on the basis of being christian and the morality of how to act and solely ignore them all but slam homosexuals... Then that is just being a bigot.

But the other 49% would still have their freedom and rights to be Americans regardless.

True that they have their rights, but the 49% side of the vote on new laws/law revisions will always lose and, depending on the situation, what they believe should be a citizen's right will become illegal.

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ValkyrieVoice
I’m sure most of you have heard about the Miss USA scandal when Miss California was asked by Perez Hilton what she thought about gay marriage. You can read a lot of what I’m talking about on his site. He is slamming the girl. She said that she thought marriage should be between a man and a woman. And then...all hell broke loose.

http://www.perezhilton.com/

I think that gays and lesbians should have the same rights as everyone else, and what she said was pretty shocking considering most of the men involved in the pageant world are gay, and that is a major demographic that she just went against, but I don’t think it’s right to slam her for her opinion, and her lose the pageant because of it. It has even been said that she was in the lead to take the crown until she opened her mouth and said what she said.

I have read tons of stories over the last few days and Miss CA is getting slammed left and right for her beliefs. She was in a competition and she was asked her opinion, and she gave her honest answer. I don’t think its right how she is being condemned for it. I could see if she said something offensive and rude, but I guess its being taken as offensive because she doesn’t happen to agree.

I have seen this over and over again over the last few years, the loud minority is going to force everyone else to see and think their way, and if you don’t, and have the nerve to oppose it, you will pay for it . Even though I DO NOT agree with Miss CA, I’m glad that she stood up for her beliefs and stood true to herself, and not just blurt out a lame answer she thought everyone wanted to hear. I think a lot of people do that these days; it is socially unacceptable to think for yourself, I have even caught myself a couple times covering up my true opinions just to avoid a conflict.

In this day and age it seems like if you don’t agree with the "mainstream" politically correct cause of the moment you are going to be singled out and shunned and I don’t think that’s right. Everyone should be entitled to their own opinion, and shouldn’t be forced to fall into the bandwagon of what everyone thinks is right. As long as you are not hurting anyone EVERYONE should be entitled to their opinion even if you don’t agree with it.

So my question to you is, what do you think about this situation? Do you think its right that she lost because of her answer? Do you think she is getting what she deserves? All opinion's welcome :)

It shouldn't matter if most of the men who work the pageants are gay. Bottom line is this, she has the right to her opinion and if "Perez" didn't want to hear the truth, he never should have asked her such a RIDICULOUS question in the first place. Geez! I remember when freedom of speech was a right. Now it's an act of bravery if you speak at all. Pfft! The beauty pageants are hardly a forum where such politics should even be brought up, in my opinion. Should I go duck now because I've expressed it?

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lordstanley

I myself could not believe she said what she said, but it is true that you can have your own opinion so what she did was what she felt. I love Perez Hilton and the look on his face when she answered his question, omg if they were in a club or bar there would of been a cat fight for sure!

I think everyone should be allowd to get married, if you want to spend the rest of your life with someone who you will probably end up hating, its your choice lol.

If I loved a girl and I wanted to make a honest women out of her Tee-Hee, then damn right I would marry her!

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Beckys_Mom
Times' are changin folks, for the better. And thats all I have to say.

You are correct LOL........its came a long way and it gets better LOL

A ine example...it used to be that woman didnt have much freedom...heck a woman was not allowed to drink in a bar LOL........now days women are more independant and have rights

So now I believe gay rights to marriages ect...will be seen as the norm

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danielost

what it seems to be coming down to is if your religous your evil.

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The Sweater Song
what it seems to be coming down to is if your religous your evil.

Or how bout, if your a discriminatory piece of sh!t then your evil. Stop livin' in the past its a new generation.

I know many religious people that love gay people and actively support gay marriage. :D <-- These are people that think for themselves

Ive seen many religious people that are just sheep to their faith and blindly support the "seperate but equal" old-school beliefs, and of course you have those that are still saying "god hates fags" <-- these are religious people that live off hate and discrimination because they are brainwashed by fear of people that are different or not their defenition of " normal"

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Sho_Sho
Or how bout, if your a discriminatory piece of sh!t then your evil. Stop livin' in the past its a new generation.

I know many religious people that love gay people and actively support gay marriage. :D <-- These are people that think for themselves

Ive seen many religious people that are just sheep to their faith and blindly support the "seperate but equal" old-school beliefs, and of course you have those that are still saying "god hates fags" <-- these are religious people that live off hate and discrimination because they are brainwashed by fear of people that are different or not their defenition of " normal"

I’m catholic, and I’m an active Christian and I believe that person has the right to do whatever they want without the government interfering as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone. And gays getting married doesn’t hurt anyone.

Marriage these days is a joke anyways. People get married only to divorce months later, If the state wants to control marriage I think they should reexamine it as a hole and make it harder for EVERYONE to get married not just gays, if its soooo precious and sacred they need to keep it that way for everyone. But I’m one that thinks the government should stay out of everything!

I can’t wait for the days when I don’t have to hear about everyone sexual orientation all the time and we can all just live and peace and go about our days without having it shoved in my face every 5 minutes. I’m all for gay rights, but I’m tired of hearing about it at this point. I don’t think cramming it down everyone throats that you HAVE to accept it or you’re a bigot is getting you anywhere.

Attacking people religious beliefs calling them “evil discriminatory pieces of sh!t” isn’t going to get you anywhere.

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eqgumby
In this case, I do. The anti-homosexual verses I'm pointing to are in the very same area that she's sinning from. She's against one but does the other freely, that's my issue with that.

By your logic any one that eats a clam is sinning. It's boorish and absurd. None of it is based on any logic or tid-bit of reality. Your obsession with other peoples sins via hypocrisy are, as I said, old and tired.

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The Sweater Song
Attacking people religious beliefs calling them “evil discriminatory pieces of sh!t” isn’t going to get you anywhere.

You missed the point big time ^_^

Read the post again:

what it seems to be coming down to is if your religous your evil.

Or how bout, if your a discriminatory piece of sh!t then your evil. Stop livin' in the past its a new generation.

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